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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:34 pm
So what if it is. Your goal in using that statement was therefore to tell me that I was up to par? The wonders of nonesense There's that sarcastic bitterness I was talking about. Tisk tisk. xp
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:42 pm
JoVo rejectanonymity Just a thought. I don't really believe in fate anymore. Sometimes it's merely a fairytale ideal, in the sense that some believe that their "true love" is fated to meet them or othersuch nonsense. Other than that, it seems like it could be used to refrain from taking responsibility for one's actions. "It's not my fault, it was fate!" I'm with you, Rej. To believe in something is to have hope that there is greater meaning in this world. To believe in something is to have hope and that help you continue your life, with zeal and try to keep content with your environment. Some people channel that hope into spirituality... I for one have chosen and try to follow my buddhist faith. It's something that gives me great strengh in hope at times. I do believe in fate. I also am pro-choice! I guess that's a concept not to understood here. Fate might be a fantasy to some, but to jump to the assumption that I blame fate for my bad choices and outcomes is ridiculous. You cannot prejudge someone simply based on a belief. So as I said ealier. Some people take that hope and use it to propel forward. Others simply wander, and wonder through life. I guess what ever happy medium you can find is all good. But it's never a good idea to lie on the extreme; hence my pro-choice/belief in fate idea. Everything in moderation I always say 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:46 pm
Oh and one more thing? I know resources are good and stuff. But do you ever come up with your own opinion and conclusions to something? neutral I mean the definition to oxymoron did not appear. I always thought it was a statement that contradicted itself and that is exactly what that statement was doing. It could always be both u know... stare
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:11 pm
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:29 am
ElegantApollo To believe in something is to have hope that there is greater meaning in this world. To believe in something is to have hope and that help you continue your life, with zeal and try to keep content with your environment. So if I believe that my computer is actually a talking potato, that gives me the hope of there being greater meaning? To believe in something is to accept something as true or real, especially when one lacks evidence supporting its veracity. Certain beliefs may certain give one hope, but others take it away. ElegantApollo I for one have chosen and try to follow my buddhist faith. It's something that gives me great strengh in hope at times. I do believe in fate. That's great! Buddhism is a very interesting religion, and one I respect dearly. It is close to my heart. ElegantApollo I also am pro-choice! I guess that's a concept not to understood here. Why wouldn't it be? I'm pro-choice, too. ElegantApollo Fate might be a fantasy to some, but to jump to the assumption that I blame fate for my bad choices and outcomes is ridiculous. You cannot prejudge someone simply based on a belief. Did anyone say that? At no point has this debate ever been about you. I was under the impression we were discussing fate, not Apollo. The only point at which anyone addressed you was when I mentioned that you were doing a poor job of arguing your point, which you took as an insult and later fixated upon (see below). ElegantApollo But it's never a good idea to lie on the extreme; hence my pro-choice/belief in fate idea. Everything in moderation I always say 3nodding I always say that, too. I've recently wondered whether I'm right to do so. It's on the table of things to toss about. Nevertheless, I'm confused as to how being pro-choice and believing in fate are contradictory (but note they are not oxymoronic). ElegantApollo Oh and one more thing? I know resources are good and stuff. But do you ever come up with your own opinion and conclusions to something? neutral Yes, I do, but I do not take it upon myself to make up words unless there is a particularly good reason for it. And there usually isn't. ElegantApollo I mean the definition to oxymoron did not appear. Quite right. It was first used in English in 1657. It comes from the Greek noun oxymoron, which comes from oxymoros, an adjective meaning "pointedly foolish." Oxymoros, in turn, comes from the Greek roots oxys, meaning "sharp," and moros, meaning "stupid." In English, the obvious contradiction intrinsic to the word led it to be used to describe a rhetorical figure by which contradictory terms are conjoined so as to give point to the statement or expression; the word itself is an illustration of the thing. Today, it is often used loosely to mean "contradiction in terms." ElegantApollo I always thought it was a statement that contradicted itself and that is exactly what that statement was doing. It could always be both u know... stare What I think you mean is that you thought my statement was an oxymoron--which it cannot be because only conjoined words can be oxymoronic--because the statement contradicted its intended meaning. That is, I intended to say that you were not on par, whereas I actually said that you were. Unfortunately, apart from the fact that a statement cannot be oxymoronic, an oxymoron is an intended contradiction. But I made a mistake. I, in fact, did intend to call you a poor debater, not as an insult, but as my genuine opinion of your debating abilities as I have seen them. Since I failed to do so by making a typo, whereby I accidentally left a double negative behind for you to prod, then what I have done could not have been an oxymoron. Now, a person might turn someone else's conjoined words into an oxymoron by restating them to either make a point or a facetious remark. Let's say, for instance, that I talk about "military intelligence." Then you laugh and call that an oxymoron. You are being facetious and pointing out the contradiction that the words "military" and "intelligence" imply. Thus, you create an oxymoron from my conjoined words, and everyone has a good laugh. But if I said, "the military is intelligent," you could not do the same thing. If you believed the military to be stupid, you could call my statement contradictory, and we might all still laugh, but because "military" and "intelligent" are not conjoined, then you could not turn them into an oxymoron by simply intending them that way. I hope all of this makes sense. Anyway, I'm off to attend the alluring boredom of class. (See that? That was an oxymoron.)
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:58 am
JoVo So if I believe that my computer is actually a talking potato, that gives me the hope of there being greater meaning? To believe in something is to accept something as true or real, especially when one lacks evidence supporting its veracity. Certain beliefs may certain give one hope, but others take it away. Oh god, obviously you've never heard the expression to "believe in something". Let me explain this to you. The expression means that you trust that there is something more than meets the eye to life. It's usually refered to in a religious or spiritual instances. I thought it was clear what I was talking about. stare JoVo ElegantApollo I also am pro-choice! I guess that's a concept not to understood here. Why wouldn't it be? I'm pro-choice, too. No I mean the concept of being pro-choice and believing in fate is not one understood. *rolls eyes* JoVo ElegantApollo Fate might be a fantasy to some, but to jump to the assumption that I blame fate for my bad choices and outcomes is ridiculous. You cannot prejudge someone simply based on a belief. Did anyone say that? At no point has this debate ever been about you. I was under the impression we were discussing fate, not Apollo. The only point at which anyone addressed you was when I mentioned that you were doing a poor job of arguing your point, which you took as an insult and later fixated upon (see below). I was not simply talking about myself. Obviously I'm the only one here who does believe in fate so I'm the only one represented. That's why it seems that I'm simply talking about myself. And no one did exactly say that, but maybe your not familiar with the expression "reading between the lines" either. Maybe I might have streched assumption a little, but can you blame me, considering I'm the only one believing in fate here, against all others... And you talk about me fixated on the "insult" that you gave me. It was insultive! You could have said it in a nicer way, but istead you chose sarcasm and bitterness. JoVo ElegantApollo But it's never a good idea to lie on the extreme; hence my pro-choice/belief in fate idea. Everything in moderation I always say 3nodding I always say that, too. I've recently wondered whether I'm right to do so. It's on the table of things to toss about. Nevertheless, I'm confused as to how being pro-choice and believing in fate are contradictory (but note they are not oxymoronic). I never implied they were in any way oxymoronic. There's a pretty "streched" assumption from your part as well! And I never said they were contradictory. Some people stated earlier that if you knew and believed in fate, you might end up extremely apathetic... Maybe it wasn't said in those words, but the message was there! stare
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:45 pm
o.O When did this thread turn into "Apollo vs. JoVo"???
Can we just agree to disagree and go on with the discussion?
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:48 pm
ElegantApollo Oh god, obviously you've never heard the expression to "believe in something". Let me explain this to you. The expression means that you trust that there is something more than meets the eye to life. It's usually refered to in a religious or spiritual instances. I thought it was clear what I was talking about. stare Ergo, why you're not on par. Don't use colloquialisms in a philosophical debate. It's not kosher. The previous statement was an example of irony. ElegantApollo No I mean the concept of being pro-choice and believing in fate is not one understood. *rolls eyes* I think it's less understood why they wouldn't be. ElegantApollo I was not simply talking about myself. Obviously I'm the only one here who does believe in fate so I'm the only one represented. That's why it seems that I'm simply talking about myself. And no one did exactly say that, but maybe your not familiar with the expression "reading between the lines" either. There is nothing particularly interesting about the white space. ElegantApollo Maybe I might have streched assumption a little, but can you blame me, considering I'm the only one believing in fate here, against all others... And you talk about me fixated on the "insult" that you gave me. It was insultive! You could have said it in a nicer way, but istead you chose sarcasm and bitterness. Actually, I chose bluntness and tactlessness. But I was never bitter and have not yet been sarcastic. Don't count me out, yet! ElegantApollo I never implied they were in any way oxymoronic. I didn't say you did. I was simply reminding you, since I'm covering the basics of the English language as I go. ElegantApollo There's a pretty "streched" assumption from your part as well! And this is a pot-kettle-black moment. ElegantApollo And I never said they were contradictory. Some people stated earlier that if you knew and believed in fate, you might end up extremely apathetic... Maybe it wasn't said in those words, but the message was there! stare Apathy had nothing to do with it. The idea is that the belief in fate tends to lead to fatalism, which leads one to accept conditions and immutable and unchangeable. Complacency is not the same as apathy. One can potentially care very much, all the while being unable to effect any change of oneself.
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:42 pm
ElegantApollo rejectanonymity Just a thought. I don't really believe in fate anymore. Sometimes it's merely a fairytale ideal, in the sense that some believe that their "true love" is fated to meet them or othersuch nonsense. Other than that, it seems like it could be used to refrain from taking responsibility for one's actions. "It's not my fault, it was fate!" Fate might be a fantasy to some, but to jump to the assumption that I blame fate for my bad choices and outcomes is ridiculous. You cannot prejudge someone simply based on a belief. Just wanted to add some emphasis (via bolding) to my previous statement. I never assumed you blamed fate for your bad choices, but I think that it is entirely possible that one could do so. I have no real problem with people believing in fate, unless they take it too far. It's just not for me.
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:08 pm
What I'd like to know is when "I disagree" became "I hate you and I hope you die." Despite contemporary fallacies, you can think someone is wrong without thinking he is a bad person. stare
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:30 pm
JoVo What I'd like to know is when "I disagree" became "I hate you and I hope you die." Despite contemporary fallacies, you can think someone is wrong without thinking he is a bad person. stare Apollo takes things personally most of the time. Also, you're just encouraging him right now.
Like I said before, can we just get this resolved and move on?
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Quite the bitches, aren't we?
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:06 pm
comming to a consensus sounds good guys, no? I am proud that this argument stayed civil, though sligtly out of hand to the point where the point of the thread was lost in the debate that ensued.
and when i say stayed civil, it was refrenced arguements rather than resorting to the childish mean like "u r mom" BS that I had to put up with on maplestory *grumble grumble rant* anyways, please end this arguement soon. This is a request from a fellow crew member Jovo.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:37 am
QuietAmbition Apollo takes things personally most of the time. That sucks. Anyway, my part of the argument is over, but I don't want to ignore Apollo if he responds. He's been very polite to me so far, and it's only right I reciprocate. I don't know what Apollo thinks, but I'm not fighting with him. Frankly, I don't think it's necessary for the guild to get up in arms over a discussion. Discussions of this sort can be heady, but so far no one has made strictly ad hominem arguments, which is good and why this debate has remained so civil. This reminds me of the dialogue in the Sophist where the stranger and Theaetetus are discussing what the sophist is and end up arguing about what the exisistence of Non-Being. The discussion has shifted somewhat, but that is natural.
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:59 am
Montigo Dominic please end this arguement soon. Perhaps this particular argument should be brought to rest, but I think we should have more conversations like this, maybe the guild would get more active if we had fun topics to debate. I'm glad Apollo made this particular thread, even if the focus has changed.
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