System v 2.0 Development Thread

[Maborofel]

*should read Mabo's above post*

...I like the participation=greater class...who/what determines an 'amount of participation that results in class change' though?  

[Lorika]

So here are some major changes we've all agreed on so far:

1. Path system is GONE.

2. Class system is YES. It seems the ultimate way to get around the limitations of paths. (@Mab I am against the idea of different-discipline skills common to everyone, as it seems to go against limiting by number of skills, and it surely makes sense that, say, a person who chooses a non-combat class would never be able to combat effectively against someone who does?)

3. Skill pools need to be revised and expanded - what do we think about the creation of class-specific pools? Obv need to think more about classes before we decide on this

4. Explanations MUST be made simpler once everything else is done. Perhaps this is a job we could eventually leave to Meta, as she's had the experience of misinterpreting how things work and is a good writer.

5. We want people to feel that their characters are getting stronger as they level up. The easiest way of doing this is changing the rolling system to differentiate between levels. I thinke veryone also likes the idea of benefits for participation - for example, if we decide to create classes that are open to everyone, after certain conditions have been met a character may be able to access a specialised class, or perhaps a class tailor-made to their character. Perhaps a skill such as Reputation could only become unlocked if a character is a veteran of many battles?

Oh, and as a note the differnetiation between LEVELS of skills still needs to be in place I think, esp if we go with the rolling changes. I was also planning on allowing SIN characters sometime around the second event, but we neednt worry about them for now - they just need their own classes and such.

6. System by points and counting is a no-no.



Things that lie somewhere in the middle between YES and NO:

1. Racial bonuses/detriments - Meta's for, I'm for, Mab's against, Fel's against. I can see the arguments on both sides. I'm just worried that if we do NOT impose restrictions characters could, plausibly, be completely uber in battle just based on their race. I can also see Fel's argument that defining a very niche race such as a giant lizard-person might be difficult. Like Mab said, maybe special races should be subject to special approval..





Things we need to address further:

1. Placing a cap on roll bonuses and detriments?

2. Fel made the point that asking people to memorise every skill is too much, and that is, of course, totally true. Unfortunately, unlike in an mmo, we have NO way of allowing people quick reference to a mechanical guide that can just pop right up on your screens upon hovering or clicking. Nii advised combatants to keep a copy of the skill guide open in another tab when doing battle for quick reference, perhaps this should be specified as the ideal way of doing things?

3. Fel also stated the confusion over skills that depend on otehr skills. This, like most other skills, requires a lot more specification to be put into it. I think we're going to need to devise a set format for classifying skills and then go through every skill applying the different parameters and cpecifying them as far a sthey can go, for example Passive vs Active, Direct vs Indirect, revising those with different rolling systems, with many skills setting out EXACTLY what they can and can't do (e.g the healing skills)  

[Lorika]

There - I think I've basically gone through everything so far. Let's keep talking, people o3o  

[Metaburo Fanmaker]

Wow!
This is turning out great~.
8D

On Races:
Probably would need Mod approval for stuff, but... yeah, you guys have valid points. Like, for instance, for my specific breed of felinid, they would have a talent for camouflage, but have a severe weakness in their knees.
It could be hard with new people... See my next post...

On Skills:
It seems like a form or sets of forms might be the best idea.
We'd probably need a few types; one for combat-based ones (with a subset for Tactical and/or support), one for spellcasting- and spiritual-based ones (since in many cases they're quite similar), and one for healing/support/passive skills.

Anyone want to see my ideas on those, if they sound like a good idea?

Basically, my thinking behind forms is that we just have to fill in the info, without having to rethink how to describe it every time.

EDIT: Thanks guys! If ya ever need me to do description writing, I'd love to. ^_^  

[Anonypanda]

-keeps I.M.ing lorika instead of posting here.....so here goes-

1. that was a no brainer lol

2. I agree. it does seem the best way to get around limitations

3. I'd LIKE to see a few class specific skills. i.e. sticking with my paladin idea. Rayne could acquire a skill called healing blade. when striking, instead of dealing damage, it heals by that much.

4. that's obvious

5. you know how i feel on rolling. I like the certain condition thing. It will inspire people to actually battle

6. agree with you there, no doubt lol

the maybe: I had an idea that could work instead of racial bonus trouble. What would be wrong with class bonuses. now...it wouldn't work if you wanted to make a custom class. Unless! you had like a list of bonuses that the said custom class could choose from

...that's all i got for now bleh.  

[Metaburo Fanmaker]

It seems to me like, just based on formatting, it might be a better idea to have a subforum devoted to guides on the system. That way, we could split the guides into smaller chunks, so it's easier for beginners to read.
(And we may need lots and LOTS of links...)  

[Lorika]

YES Meta, that might be an excellent idea!!!

We'll work on that when it comes round, though. Seriously though, GJ!!  

[Maborofel]

sounds like a 'good idea for a later date' Meta

about the rolling system, what if the dice you rolled depended on the 'level' of the skill? that way, Spiritualists and Spellcasters can still use physical force if needed, it'd just be based on a low dice (ie, a 6-sided, whereas Combaters will have 8 or 12-sideds for their strikes)
this stems from what makes sense to me. Just because -IRL- I read more than I fight/spar, I'm still pretty handy with a long stick...so why wouldn't a 'non-combat'-type character not be able to take a few -less effective- swings?
-will elaborate when not using Wii-based Internet, as the 'point&click to type' is slow and frustrating-

about memorizing skills: I'd make the 'keep a record' recommendation. After all, there isn't really a practical way to remember/view skills while RPing, so if everyone keeps notes, it will -sorta- work. besides, the RP is already slow-paced. It shouldn't be a problem for anyone to have seperate tabs/windows open to the 'my skills' and 'skill effect guide' pages

about roll boost/deboost limits, what if the limit was determined by the specific type of dice?
ex- lets say the 'outcomes' of an 8-sided roll are:
1,2,3-fail
4,5,6-so-so success
7,8-full success
A roll, then, could only be increased by 2 (effectively making all skills a somewhat-win or better, unless they be unlucky & get a 1)
similarly, the roll could only be decreased by 2 at the most, (making all rolls a somewhat-win or worse)
((cant remember any other parts...cant see 'em while Wii-typing, so I'll stop there for now))  

[Lorika]

That's exactly what I was thinking, mab. About the diceroll being affected by the level of the skill.  

[Feline Godess]

I don't have time to touch on everything right now, but I would like to touch on a point or two.

I don't like the thought that spellcasting makes a person not be able to combat as effectivly as someone who goes into combat and takes up the sword. I think that high level spells should be able to do just as much damage as a high level combat attack.

My thoughts on the dice rolling in a little more info.

I think that as you level up you should gain access to two more points to roll with.

Example
Level 1 1-8
Level 2 1-10
Level 3 1-12

That way as you level up you have the chance of completely taking out a begining skill even if the skill rolls a full 8, but you aren't that far out of their range so it dosn't feel like they are totally dominating the begginer. I really feel that you should be rewarded for having the higher skills in battle or why would you want to work for them.

Also with the class system you could have someone who is mainly spiritualism or spellcasting, but they could level up one weapon of choice. Like Panda's example. Or say you have a spellcaster who levels up in projectiles. Bow and arrow or throwing knives or something of the sort. They will be proficiant in that weapon, but not able to learn another, since they are able to learn a variety of spells to be their main power.


As for racial bonusus, maybe it could be a thing that is approved by mods, but I think for the most part that it could be negated by having the things in the writing of the post, but not able to acctually effect the outcome of the rolls.

Example
Fremoth the drow went in with his super speed to attack
Roll 2-10
Unfortunately it seemed to be failing him right now and his attack missed.

Really poorly written example, but it does demonstrate the point.


Ugh...I have more to say, but I'm so out of it right now...will type more later  

[Lorika]

Oh..! Where was that suggested? If anything, spellcasters should be MORE powerful than combatants, but perhaps for a shorter time as their energy is drained by their spells.

Actually, the way I was thinking of the class system ... bah, I'll have to explain it in detail later. Need to get on with other stuff now.  

[Maborofel]

8,10, and 12 sided dice sound like a promising idea...but Gaia doesnt have an ordinary 10-sided dice. We'd need to use the random number generator for the 10s...and if we'd need to do that anyway, we might as well use the R#G for all the 'rolls', especially because it'll give us more flexibility when planning which roll type to use for a certain level's skills

(short, but I have Boy Scout stuff to do....)  

[Maborofel]

Metaburo Fanmaker

It seems to me like, just based on formatting, it might be a better idea to have a subforum devoted to guides on the system. That way, we could split the guides into smaller chunks, so it's easier for beginners to read.
(And we may need lots and LOTS of links...)

you know, that was one thing I didn't much like when I joined...maybe it's just my paranoia that I'll miss something, but I didn't like having that mess of links to read.  

[Metaburo Fanmaker]

What I meant by that was making cross-references, for anyone who needs them. They wouldn't be essential, just clarifications.

So... we seem to be at an impasse on something, but I can't figure out what it is... Help, please?