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 Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:03 am
Okay, I know this post is about actual suicide and the consequences of such act, but what if you have tried but did not succeeded, will you still go to hell or can one take this as a second change at life and salvation?
(Yeah... this is based on real life... MINE.)
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:45 am
Rave Dollie Okay, I know this post is about actual suicide and the consequences of such act, but what if you have tried but did not succeeded, will you still go to hell or can one take this as a second change at life and salvation? (Yeah... this is based on real life... MINE.) There's a Time to Laugh "Ephesians 2: 8-9"
Speaking of myself, I attempted suicide many times. I know other Christians who did as well.
God didn't let you die because he has a greater plan for you. I know that I am thankful that I didn't die. I believed in Jesus and was saved before I ever attempted it. God showed me he was there carrying me through my problems and I know he will never abandon me when times are rough. I still have my battles with Depression but they are few and far between because I'm working on giving it all to God. Every second you're alive is a second chance to make things right with God when you have sinned.
Often times the reason we try to commit suicide is because of the pain we feel from things that have happened in our lives. And those things need to be worked through to help you move on and become the person God created you to be.
And a Time to Cry "Romans 5: 3-5"
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:07 pm
I see all of your arguing about suicide if you kill yourself you go to hell is you are saved you still go to hell I am not going to argue about this I am being blunt
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:11 pm
PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox All of the Law is not binding. If you want to accept that quote that you have as authoritative, then you have to accept pork and shellfish as well. That promise / punishment is not applicable if you cannot find a NT verse that brings it back up again. They're good ones. But I have a question that I want you to consider when reading them. Does the blood of Christ cover all sins that you have done past, present, and future? Only past?
Also, I was bought at the price of Jesus. My body is not my own to do with as I please. Life is a gift. To kill ourselves is like spitting that back in God's face. Any sin is like spitting in His face. From calling someone a name to brutal rape and murder.They all have equal value, and the same deadly consequences. Spiritually, if not physically, and it's the spirit that matters.
I never said that it wasn't.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:38 pm
suicide is like murdering what god created. he created YOU yes YOU for a reason . . . to live life to the fullest! If u kill urself thats no different as killing someone else. Fullfil life,not suicide.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:52 pm
gothic_black_rose PawzPrint Secret_lillies NO! once we are saved we go to Heaven. If we stole and died we go to Heaven if we are saved. Even if we don't ask for forgiveness. Once you are saved you're saved! You won't go to hell if you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior!
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
This passage implies that names can be blotted out from the book of life. Which means that you can lose your salvation.
Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Entirely true. This doesn't mention free will. Even after being saved, a person can still reject Jesus.
THEN,
Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
So, once you do that, you've "crossed the line," so to speak.
Source from X
What?! Revelation 3:5 means the complete opposite. Anyways you aren't reading the previous post. "For by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God." Ephesians 2:8. It says it's a gift from God if God took away that salvation when we sin then it wouldn't be a gift, thus going against his nature. Also you can't say that only a certain type of sin can have your salvation taken away for no one sin is greater than another for they all keep us from God. That is why God gave us grace, which is undeserved favor, so that we may be able to to have salavation. If it can be taken away then is no longer by grace because that means we have to deserve it. Just because someone sins doesn't mean their salvation is taken away. Then no one would be able to go to heaven "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. If that were the case then Jesus would have died for nothing.
I have read every post here, thank you. Maybe you are not willing to try to understand others. Do not tell me what I am and am not doing.
I am not saying that God will take away our salvation. I am saying that we, with out free will, can choose to end our agreement with Him. I'm not saying that God is taking back His gift of salvation, I'm saying that we can choose to walk away from Him.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:54 pm
VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox They're good ones. But I have a question that I want you to consider when reading them. Does the blood of Christ cover all sins that you have done past, present, and future? Only past?
Also, I was bought at the price of Jesus. My body is not my own to do with as I please. Life is a gift. To kill ourselves is like spitting that back in God's face. Any sin is like spitting in His face. From calling someone a name to brutal rape and murder.They all have equal value, and the same deadly consequences. Spiritually, if not physically, and it's the spirit that matters.
I never said that it wasn't.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:05 pm
PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox They're good ones. But I have a question that I want you to consider when reading them. Does the blood of Christ cover all sins that you have done past, present, and future? Only past?
Also, I was bought at the price of Jesus. My body is not my own to do with as I please. Life is a gift. To kill ourselves is like spitting that back in God's face. Any sin is like spitting in His face. From calling someone a name to brutal rape and murder.They all have equal value, and the same deadly consequences. Spiritually, if not physically, and it's the spirit that matters.
I never said that it wasn't. He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:06 pm
gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox Any sin is like spitting in His face. From calling someone a name to brutal rape and murder.They all have equal value, and the same deadly consequences. Spiritually, if not physically, and it's the spirit that matters.
I never said that it wasn't. He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:48 pm
PawzPrint gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox PawzPrint VK Fox Any sin is like spitting in His face. From calling someone a name to brutal rape and murder.They all have equal value, and the same deadly consequences. Spiritually, if not physically, and it's the spirit that matters.
I never said that it wasn't. He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor. I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:34 pm
gothic_black_rose PawzPrint gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox I never said that it wasn't. He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor. I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it. She pretty much nailed it. I've been doing a poor job of putting my thoughts together recently, and I apologize for that. My health isn't quite 100% right now and there's some stuff goin on. But that's what I'm trying to say. Nothing can pluck us from the hand of the Father if we are in His hands.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:59 pm
VK Fox Curse-of-the-Phoenix VK Fox Curse-of-the-Phoenix VK Fox What purpose does Purgatory have since Christ paid the debt? None. Not to mention the extreme lack of scriptural evidence. So, don't worry about that. I believe they could go to Hell. That depends entirely on their state of salvation. If they have been truly, Biblically saved.. If the last act I ever committed was to lie to my wife, would I go to Hell? You'll find that the answers to the suicide question and mine are the same. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that if you commit suicide, you will go to Hell. The Blood of Christ covers all sins, past, present, and future. I agree with your Purgatory Comment, but your comment about Suicide could not be further from the truth, YOU GO TO HELL, God states in Genesis (Roughly said i don't have my bible right now) "He who spills the blood of my creation has no place in my kingdom" could that not be any clearer YOU ARE GODS CREATION, no acception, SUICIDE IS A SINBy that logic we go to Hell for eating pork. Do you like pork? How about shellfish? Prove it under the New Testament, which is what is binding for Christians. What the heck for one the pork thing is wrong God abolished that in Genesis. If you disobey one of his laws you are guilty of breaking all laws, if you steal a cookie that's just as bad as killing someone, there are punishments for actions such as murder or suicide God condemns you because if you say you love him and you will live your life for him (Baptism) and then go break his laws you go to hell, why do you ask? because if you love God you will obey his laws, and of course everyone slips up but if you are truly sorry you can be forgiven, though I hate it when I run into ignorance in this field its why I quit other guilds. And yes because you are a living human if you kill yourself its murder, God said in Genesis "He who spills the blood of man shall be condemned" that is Gods domain not mans to dwell in, we do our best to stay alive not to stop it. All of the Law is not binding. If you want to accept that quote that you have as authoritative, then you have to accept pork and shellfish as well. That promise / punishment is not applicable if you cannot find a NT verse that brings it back up again. God enacted the Law of not eating pork or shellfish as you say, in the beginning but he abolished it after the flood. Genesis 9:2-4 KJV And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon beast of the Earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the Earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; for into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Now that verse states you can eat animals, Verse 4 says that you may not eat blood, which is a huge step from pork. Here is a quote from James C. Guy at http://biblesays.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=73340James C. Guy PERIOD OF LAW One other element that limits the binding of a law is the time period the law is to cover. We have already noted that the Old Testament Law was given in its entirety for the people of Israel, and for the purpose of bringing them to Christ. This also limits the Law to a time. This is because the people of Israel no longer exist as God’s special chosen people. Their time as a people has ended. Rather, all are made one in Christ (Ephesians 2:11-16; Romans 2:28-29). Galatians 3:26-29 tells how everyone, regardless of their physical race or nationality, can be one in Christ by faith. It says, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." So the time period for God to have a special physical nation has ended. We must understand that laws sometimes change or end. That does not mean that the law was bad, but it may have been meant for a certain period of time. When children get older, move to their own house, and start another family of their own, they are no longer "bound" by the law of their parents in most societies. This does not mean the law of their parents was bad or wrong, or that their parents have changed. It simply means the law of their parents as it relates to the children is not longer needed. It has served its purpose and period, and has therefore been fulfilled. The same is true with the Old Testament Law. I need to go to bed but look up the verses in there and take into account what he said, and don't say there is not a verse to support it there are plenty.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:58 pm
VK Fox gothic_black_rose PawzPrint gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox I never said that it wasn't. He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor. I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it. She pretty much nailed it. I've been doing a poor job of putting my thoughts together recently, and I apologize for that. My health isn't quite 100% right now and there's some stuff goin on. But that's what I'm trying to say. Nothing can pluck us from the hand of the Father if we are in His hands.
I feel you on the health thing right now too. I've got some....weird things going on.
Nothing? What about our own free will? If we want to walk away from God (a stupid thing to do but it happens), will God force us to stay with Him?
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:59 pm
PawzPrint VK Fox gothic_black_rose PawzPrint gothic_black_rose He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor. I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it. She pretty much nailed it. I've been doing a poor job of putting my thoughts together recently, and I apologize for that. My health isn't quite 100% right now and there's some stuff goin on. But that's what I'm trying to say. Nothing can pluck us from the hand of the Father if we are in His hands.
I feel you on the health thing right now too. I've got some....weird things going on.
Nothing? What about our own free will? If we want to walk away from God (a stupid thing to do but it happens), will God force us to stay with Him?
If you do that and become a stumbling block for others then he will take your life. Ezekiel 3:20 “If righteous people turn away from their righteous behavior and ignore the obstacles I put in their way, they will die." That way you won't cause them to backslide and also you will be in heaven anyways. So it all works out.
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:52 pm
gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox gothic_black_rose PawzPrint gothic_black_rose He's saying a person won't go to Hell if they are saved. To say that one sin is greater than another to the point that it will take a away someone's salvation is impossible. Sin is sin and they all keep us from God. If sin could take away someone's salvation then no one would go to Heaven for we all sin. Thus meaning Jesus would have died for no reason. Thought it is through God's grace, undeserved favor, that we are saved. If it could be taken away then it isn't undeserved favor. I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it. She pretty much nailed it. I've been doing a poor job of putting my thoughts together recently, and I apologize for that. My health isn't quite 100% right now and there's some stuff goin on. But that's what I'm trying to say. Nothing can pluck us from the hand of the Father if we are in His hands.
I feel you on the health thing right now too. I've got some....weird things going on.
Nothing? What about our own free will? If we want to walk away from God (a stupid thing to do but it happens), will God force us to stay with Him?
If you do that and become a stumbling block for others then he will take your life. Ezekiel 3:20 “If righteous people turn away from their righteous behavior and ignore the obstacles I put in their way, they will die." That way you won't cause them to backslide and also you will be in heaven anyways. So it all works out.
For instance, if I were to steal something, it is a sin. I ask for forgiveness, Jesus has mercy on me, I sin no more. However, if I ask for forgiveness and keep on sinning and asking for forgiveness, what's the point? I believe the Bible talks about sinning knowingly. Eventually, God is going to give me over to my sin. And without God, we are dead. Jesus came and died for us so that we would not be dead to sin, He came to free us from sin.
You didn't quote the whole verse.The whole verse reads:
"Now if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, and I put a stumbling block in front of him, he will die. If you did not warn him, he will die because of his sin and the righteous acts he did will not be remembered."
This part in the Bible is talking about believers having a special responsibility to warn non-believers about the consequences of sins. I don't think this has any relevance to the discussion.
That being said, I'm bringing this back to the main topic of the thread. I believe that people who commit suicide go to hell. We've stated why we each believe what we believe and it's not a sin to believe what we do. However, it is something we must agree to disagree on as the Bible is not black and white on this area. With that said, I accept that you have different thoughts on this and I'm stepping away from this thread for a bit.
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