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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:14 pm
Ellavemia Research shows that plants can feel pain and react to being cut. Does that mean we shouldn't eat vegetables, fruits, herbs and other plants either? I'm honestly not sure. I find it's best not to think about it too much. Uh, research HAS been done on this, but with no conclusive evidence of plant empathy. Infact, most signs point to "no."
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:36 am
Yanueh I wonder if this is how some vegans are going to deal with the fact that a lot of insects had to die so their "cruelty-free" dinners could make it to harvest - just class those ugly bugs as non-animals! (I don't mean to offend anyone, but skooshing thousands of bugs and their eggs out in the garden has left me somewhat cynical in regards to veganism being "compassionate" and "cruelty-free.") not to mention all the field mice that get killed when grains are harvested via machinized harvisters
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:51 am
Seraphsody As to the conversation about sea creatures. Octopi are incredibly intelligent and sensitive creatures. And if anyone tells you that squid are violent, you tell them that most studies done on squid were done underneath fishing vessels when the squid were being killed around and above the researchers, so of course they were confused and violent and trying to get away. Research done on squid NOT right underneath killing grounds has returned with the understanding that they're curious, playful and beautiful creatures that wouldn't harm other squid or humans unless they're in a dire situation. actually site the studies, and i might listen, until then, they'd kill me given the choice, so i'm not so adverse to eating them (actually, i dont like octopi, but my other half does). but seriously, show me the studies and i'll read them. Seraphsody And as to hens that one might have on their home property, well, many vegans will say that it's not the hen's place to work for us. well, than "many vegans" are a bunch of morons, because it's what we like to call a "symbiotic relationship" the same as the human species developed with bees*. i feed and protect the chickens and in return they allow me to have their useless byproducts. i dont force production in winter, thus im not making them "work for me". *the human-bee symbiosis comes in the fact that we survive because they polinate our food, and for them we provide the flowers to be polinated so they can get their food. this comment was aside from the honey debate.
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:20 am
[Kegan] Ellavemia Research shows that plants can feel pain and react to being cut. Does that mean we shouldn't eat vegetables, fruits, herbs and other plants either? I'm honestly not sure. I find it's best not to think about it too much. Uh, research HAS been done on this, but with no conclusive evidence of plant empathy. Infact, most signs point to "no." If you define pain as having to have a central nervous system and pain receptors, then no, plants don't "feel" pain. If you broaden the definition to include electrical reaction, then pain stimuli do indeed affect them. Recent studies confirm this. This leads me personally to believe that plants are sentient. Your definition may be different. At some point we have to give in and realize that human survival is dependent on other living creatures; whether they be plants, insects, birds, fish, mammals or bacteria. We have to use other species to live. All animals do.
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:16 pm
honey's not vegan.
agave nectar is better for you anyways, it tastes just like honey but doesn't make your blood sugar spike.
& it's plant-derived so whee whee
@ all saying honey is vegan:
no.
animal by-products = not vegan.
honey = animal by-product.
therefore, honey = not vegan.
it's not really something you can debate over. i mean, if you want to get into "whether it should or shouldn't be vegan" you can, but the bottom line is, vegans are supposed to avoid (non-human, since someone made the point about their bread)animal products & by-products, so that includs honey.
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:28 pm
Yanueh @Sheshedi: Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about whether something was "vegan" or not. I'd look into what kind of impact it has on the environment. Some vegan products are environmental nightmares (and not to mention completely unhealthy for you), while some non-vegan products have very little impact. not every vegan consumes the products that are environmental nightmares though. green-minded vegans such as myself usually go for the local, unprocessed stuff as often as possible. (my local farmer is the coolest old dude ever biggrin )
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:25 pm
I don't think it is vegan.
But then again my thought is there is a difference between the eggs hens lay and the honey.
Eggs are a by product of their natural cycles, its their version of the menstrual cycle so...I don't know if they actually ingest those eggs later if they need the nutrients but it is different from bees since they use pollen and regurgitate it with their saliva to feed themselves and young.
>.> I love honey. I've just minimized my use of it ever since I heard about the bee hive colony collapse syndrome.
Does anyone know if chickens have use of laid eggs?
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:52 pm
Our hens used to eat their eggs if we didn't gather them in time.
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:59 pm
Ellavemia Our hens used to eat their eggs if we didn't gather them in time. I'd be afraid they would get into the habit of it.
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:25 pm
Zurine Ellavemia Our hens used to eat their eggs if we didn't gather them in time. I'd be afraid they would get into the habit of it. They do. Cannibal animal! There's virtually nothing chickens won't eat, given the opportunity/need.
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:40 pm
If you keep them properly fed and they're getting all of their vitamins and nutrients and whatnot from their food, there's no reason chickens would "need" their eggs. Just like most (if not all?) of us don't need to eat what comes out of our cups =P
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:14 am
sunsetsmile Zurine Ellavemia Our hens used to eat their eggs if we didn't gather them in time. I'd be afraid they would get into the habit of it. They do. Cannibal animal! There's virtually nothing chickens won't eat, given the opportunity/need. actually, i remember reading an article a while back saying it was best to feed your hen their eggs back, especially if it's a farm rescue hen(because of how they've been bred over the years to give all their body's nutrients to the egg). if i can find the article again, i'll link it.
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:40 pm
Dia Dementia vegans are supposed to avoid (non-human, since someone made the point about their bread)animal products & by-products, so that includs honey. So if i only have to avoid non-human animal products and byproducts you're saying I can eat humans? biggrin Now I have something to do with that pile of bodies in the basement. >_> LOLJK.
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:10 pm
Dia Dementia sunsetsmile Zurine Ellavemia Our hens used to eat their eggs if we didn't gather them in time. I'd be afraid they would get into the habit of it. They do. Cannibal animal! There's virtually nothing chickens won't eat, given the opportunity/need. actually, i remember reading an article a while back saying it was best to feed your hen their eggs back, especially if it's a farm rescue hen(because of how they've been bred over the years to give all their body's nutrients to the egg). if i can find the article again, i'll link it. only ground up, if you just give them the shells whole they will become egg eaters, even destroying fertilized clutches...
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