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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Is not passed over. Is just trying to decipher ramblings. It'll only take a few more minutes >.<;
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:08 pm
Divine_Malevolence Yeah, I agree. Though..... Such things are born to ward off discrimination. It is.... Shall we say a storm? Storms rage until the imbalance that caused them cease. Gay pride parades will remain so long as there is homophobia. Ethnic parades will continue so long as there is racism. And my argument is that homophobia and racism will exist as long as people continue said parades, because they're in a sense causing segregation by flaunting their differences. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:13 pm
CH0Z0 What if the excessive show of pride is what makes them oppressed? Since it makes them look different when they're really not. So? Maybe poor people should stop receiving donations because it makes them look impoverished and shameful? I think you are seeing this in a different way than I am. People are different, whether we like it or pretend that it is the case. What unites us is pride in ourselves: a sense of self-worth. A community that accepts you would be great, too. CH0Z0 I mean, look at what pride did to the KKK you mentioned. Pride is a neutral thing. It depends on what you do with it.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:15 pm
Valheita @Rairi:Yes... but at the same time, there are better ways of expressing pride than being in ones face. I mean, I have no issues with homosexuals or homosexuality, but its -really- obnoxious when people have sigs going "I'm gay. DEAL WITH IT". It's like "Uh yeah. Who cares? It's just another sexuality .__." The thing is, not everyone shares the same views as you do. People do get swept under the rug as a "solution" of sorts.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:15 pm
Valheita Divine_Malevolence Yeah, I agree. Though..... Such things are born to ward off discrimination. It is.... Shall we say a storm? Storms rage until the imbalance that caused them cease. Gay pride parades will remain so long as there is homophobia. Ethnic parades will continue so long as there is racism. And my argument is that homophobia and racism will exist as long as people continue said parades, because they're in a sense causing segregation by flaunting their differences. 3nodding The phobias and -isms exist without the parades. The parades don't exist without the phobias and -isms. If the -isms and phobias were to up and disappear, the parades would probably follow suit. Not the other way around. I'd say that said parades raise awareness, and put down injustice. As, if a storm never rages, the imbalance never ceases.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:19 pm
Dunno. The parades sure do look fun, though.
But, if this is a rant, I don't know if it also counts as a discussion. If you're totally, seriously against gay pride, then there isn't much to talk about. But a couple of zCB! members seem to understand where you're coming from, so it's more of a discussion on why gay pride could be considered bogus.
. . . I like some of the reasonings for it, though. The community I live in is so close-minded, only a handful of people here don't think of it as my "big, dark secret". I think it'd be really, really great to attend a festival celebrating homosexuality; so many people in one place where they actually feel free and safe enough to be open about themselves? It's kind of incredable, to me.
Now, to my brother's father, a gay hairdresser living in San Fransisco, it probably would seem irrelevant.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:23 pm
Rairi Sakurai The thing is, not everyone shares the same views as you do. People do get swept under the rug as a "solution" of sorts. Hmm. How do I explain this... I'm not so much against the parades and festivals (though I do feel they are unneccessary for a group that wants to be accepted as normal), as I am against the ones that become militant in their pride. The ones that do actually say "Deal with it", and shove it in to every conversation they can. Divine_Malevolence The phobias and -isms exist without the parades. The parades don't exist without the phobias and -isms. If the -isms and phobias were to up and disappear, the parades would probably follow suit. Not the other way around. I'd say that said parades raise awareness, and put down injustice. As, if a storm never rages, the imbalance never ceases. Oh, I dare say each of them is now at a point where it would be carried on whether the other exists or not. To use an apt modern analogy, the parades are like the original American approach in Afghanistan. Fight the opposition with a show of force. The general over there now, says that's not working. It's only creating more insurgents, more hatred. He says America needs to work more on their relations with the Afghani people. That's what I think homosexuality as a movement needs. Rather than confronting intolerance with a show of force or defiance, work with them. Obviously, not everyone will accept you, and few will do so straight away. Merging of cultures takes years, but it's more successful IMO to do it that way.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:26 pm
Valheita Cherry Brossom This also makes me think of ethnic festivals and the like. Should we also tell people not to be proud because their ancestors were Greek/Irish/Italian/whatever? I feel that this would be a bad idea. Because you can get some really freaking good food at ethnic festivals. An ethnic festival is notably different to a "I'm gay, deal with it" type approach. It's much the same principle you mentioned in your opening post, of being proud of what you were born to be. Except in this case the pride festivals are tourist events that get advertised in the family newspapers. Maybe gay people should develop their own distinctive cuisine. And folk dancing. Then they'd have more to market to the masses.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:28 pm
Cherry Brossom Maybe gay people should develop their own distinctive cuisine. And folk dancing. Then they'd have more to market to the masses. I approve of this idea. Anyway. The OP has been edited to clarify the target of my rant.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:33 pm
Rairi Sakurai CH0Z0 What if the excessive show of pride is what makes them oppressed? Since it makes them look different when they're really not. So? Maybe poor people should stop receiving donations because it makes them look impoverished and shameful? That is what they look like, no? Being a Hobo is not exactly prestigious in any way. They should feel that way and work to correct it, not say I'M POOR, DEAL WITH IT AND GIVE ME MONEY. The type of people who do the after-mentioned stay poor forever. Rairi Sakurai CH0Z0 I mean, look at what pride did to the KKK you mentioned. Pride is a neutral thing. It depends on what you do with it. Excessive pride kills, parades about one's self are DEFINITELY excessive pride. It's like if Obama made a "We love Obama" month and said, "if some of you don't like it, deal with it." Why this post is late: Val took a lot of my ideas xd
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:34 pm
Valheita Divine_Malevolence Yeah, I agree. Though..... Such things are born to ward off discrimination. It is.... Shall we say a storm? Storms rage until the imbalance that caused them cease. Gay pride parades will remain so long as there is homophobia. Ethnic parades will continue so long as there is racism. And my argument is that homophobia and racism will exist as long as people continue said parades, because they're in a sense causing segregation by flaunting their differences. 3nodding This makes me think of a woman who came to our church a few months ago to speak about white privilege. One of her main points was that it is racist for white people to try to be "colorblind" and treat everyone the same, because they're just "whitewashing" the differences between people and turning a blind eye to what black people experience because they're black. So apparently, as a minority, you're contributing to segregation by emphasizing your differences. But as a member of the majority, you're being racist by looking past other people's differences. rolleyes Can't we all just get along???
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:37 pm
Waitwaitwait. I'm racist because I treat humans as humans?
Awesome. BRB, being intolerant.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:39 pm
Cherry Brossom Valheita Divine_Malevolence Yeah, I agree. Though..... Such things are born to ward off discrimination. It is.... Shall we say a storm? Storms rage until the imbalance that caused them cease. Gay pride parades will remain so long as there is homophobia. Ethnic parades will continue so long as there is racism. And my argument is that homophobia and racism will exist as long as people continue said parades, because they're in a sense causing segregation by flaunting their differences. 3nodding This makes me think of a woman who came to our church a few months ago to speak about white privilege. One of her main points was that it is racist for white people to try to be "colorblind" and treat everyone the same, because they're just "whitewashing" the differences between people and turning a blind eye to what black people experience because they're black. So apparently, as a minority, you're contributing to segregation by emphasizing your differences. But as a member of the majority, you're being racist by looking past other people's differences. rolleyes Can't we all just get along??? No. People are too stupid to do so.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:41 pm
No, you're racist because you're white in a white-dominated society. The treating humans as humans is just you pretending to be nice even though you're really racist. Or not realizing how racist you are. Or something.
I wonder if it ever occurred to her that making sweeping statements about a group of people because of the color of their skin is fairly racist in itself, even if that color is white.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:42 pm
CH0Z0 That is what they look like, no? Being a Hobo is not exactly prestigious in any way. They should feel that way and work to correct it, not say I'M POOR, DEAL WITH IT AND GIVE ME MONEY. The type of people who do the after-mentioned stay poor forever. I just lost my train of thought and what I was trying to convey. =( CH0Z0 Excessive pride kills, parades about one's self are DEFINITELY excessive pride. It's like if Obama made a "We love Obama" month and said, "if some of you don't like it, deal with it." There's so many double standards in society that nothing is ever really fair anymore. I saw some story (probably fake) about some kid who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance... but because he no longer believed in "liberty and justice for all."
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