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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:17 pm


Chieftain Twilight
because of this, i have come to the theory (that seems to fit everything else i have yet seen so far) that all things are subjective, including the Universal Truth. all religions are teaching and acknowledging teh exact same Universal Truth, but they view it, define it, arrange it, and display it all in their own individual subjective ways.


By this you mean that, as you understand it, there is one single truth that is understood in different ways? How do gods figure into this idea? Are they real as individuals, or interchangeable archetypes, or what?

Theoretically, if this Universal Truth does exist, there should in theory be an objective understanding of it, correct? Not that anyone would get it, but that it exists in potentia, so to speak, like the elephant exists in its own right but the different blind men understand it in different ways?

I realise that one would have to have an idea of what the Universal Truth was objectively before drawing proper parallels, but in what ways, for example, are (were) the Aztec pagans and the Zen Buddhists acknowledging the same Universal Truth?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:43 pm


Sanguina Cruenta
Chieftain Twilight
because of this, i have come to the theory (that seems to fit everything else i have yet seen so far) that all things are subjective, including the Universal Truth. all religions are teaching and acknowledging teh exact same Universal Truth, but they view it, define it, arrange it, and display it all in their own individual subjective ways.


By this you mean that, as you understand it, there is one single truth that is understood in different ways? How do gods figure into this idea? Are they real as individuals, or interchangeable archetypes, or what?

Theoretically, if this Universal Truth does exist, there should in theory be an objective understanding of it, correct? Not that anyone would get it, but that it exists in potentia, so to speak, like the elephant exists in its own right but the different blind men understand it in different ways?

I realise that one would have to have an idea of what the Universal Truth was objectively before drawing proper parallels, but in what ways, for example, are (were) the Aztec pagans and the Zen Buddhists acknowledging the same Universal Truth?


to explain the similarities accurately and effectively would take alot of time and space, soif you would like i can do so at a later time. 3nodding fro right now i will answer the questions that i can without fishing out all my sources.

i am currently under the impression that Objectivity does not exist, period. as for gods, yes i do believe that they actually exist, as beings. some may be rcognized by different names in different cultures, while others are in fact individual. i do not have the knowledge of each indoivdual case. but however, i DO have personal relationships to Morrighan, Odin, and Loki.

Chieftain Twilight

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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:46 pm


Chieftain Twilight

to explain the similarities accurately and effectively would take alot of time and space, soif you would like i can do so at a later time. 3nodding fro right now i will answer the questions that i can without fishing out all my sources.

i am currently under the impression that Objectivity does not exist, period. as for gods, yes i do believe that they actually exist, as beings. some may be rcognized by different names in different cultures, while others are in fact individual. i do not have the knowledge of each indoivdual case. but however, i DO have personal relationships to Morrighan, Odin, and Loki.


Does the Universal Truth exist, in and of itself? How can there be a "Truth" at all, if all there is is subjectivity? You are familiar with the metaphor of the blind men and the elephant?

I await your explanation of the links between the old Aztec pagans and Zen Buddhists with baited breath.

The Morrigan? You are of the Gael?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:55 pm


Sanguina Cruenta
Chieftain Twilight

to explain the similarities accurately and effectively would take alot of time and space, soif you would like i can do so at a later time. 3nodding fro right now i will answer the questions that i can without fishing out all my sources.

i am currently under the impression that Objectivity does not exist, period. as for gods, yes i do believe that they actually exist, as beings. some may be rcognized by different names in different cultures, while others are in fact individual. i do not have the knowledge of each indoivdual case. but however, i DO have personal relationships to Morrighan, Odin, and Loki.


Does the Universal Truth exist, in and of itself? How can there be a "Truth" at all, if all there is is subjectivity? You are familiar with the metaphor of the blind men and the elephant?

I await your explanation of the links between the old Aztec pagans and Zen Buddhists with baited breath.

The Morrigan? You are of the Gael?


i actually have only 1/16th of brittish/french mix on my mom's side, but it may be more on dan's side... from him though i am 3/8 itallian, and the itallians are the genetic brothers of the Gaelics.

my relationship to her is personal, and of the highest importance to me, but i do believe it came about due to Fae heritage.

anywho, no i am not familiar with the metaphore of the Blind Man and teh Elephant.

my belief in pure Subjectivity is interesting, i know. but it is based on the concept that since all things are Energy, including thought, and that our Will, when aligned with Faith and Universal Love or Oneness, effects our reality, that all things are subject to the subjective mind, and thus, fluid and ever-changing. Chaos is teh Source for all existance, it is what Creates, Destroys, and ReCreates, over and over again. it keeps things in motion. the Creator God is Chaos itself, a concept that may or may not have a consious Will, and it is what Created Light (Existance and Creation) and thereby defining Darkness (Entropy, non-existance). being an abstract concept, Chaos too is viewed subjectively, and being infinate and progenitous, is a concept that goes over our heads as mortals.

Chieftain Twilight

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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:10 pm


Chieftain Twilight
i actually have only 1/16th of brittish/french mix on my mom's side, but it may be more on dan's side... from him though i am 3/8 itallian, and the itallians are the genetic brothers of the Gaelics.


Genes don't have much to do with being of the Gael. I take it you are not, then?

How can you explain personal interaction with a deity that, as far as I am aware, has made an oath to the Gael to accept only their worship and attention? What makes you special?

Quote:
my relationship to her is personal, and of the highest importance to me, but i do believe it came about due to Fae heritage.


........... I seeeeee.
Mr. Dark, I presume?

Why do you believe you are of the Fae? Should I be hanging up bits of iron? Why would Nordic gods want to interact with you, if you are of the Fae?

Quote:
anywho, no i am not familiar with the metaphore of the Blind Man and teh Elephant.


The idea is you have this elephant. These three blind men are touching it and describing what their limited perception indicates this animal is like. One touches the trunk, one the tail, one the ear. They don't know what an elephant is like as a whole, only the small part they experience.

In your idea of there being a Universal Truth, you first have to have that Truth - the elephant - that exists in itself. The entire elephant (shape, texture, smell, sound) is the objective understanding of the Universal Truth. The understanding of each blind man is the subjective.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:16 pm


Chieftain Twilight
i actually have only 1/16th of brittish/french mix on my mom's side, but it may be more on dan's side... from him though i am 3/8 itallian, and the itallians are the genetic brothers of the Gaelics.

Heritage == a member of a culture.
Having the bloodline does not impart cultural practices, beliefs, and teachings.

Also, how do you work out Odinn in the mix with the Morrigan?

Are you familiar with thought-forms and how they work?

Violet Song jat Shariff

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:17 pm


Chieftain Twilight
i actually have only 1/16th of brittish/french mix on my mom's side, but it may be more on dan's side... from him though i am 3/8 itallian, and the itallians are the genetic brothers of the Gaelics.


Excuse me? I'm no Gael, not even close.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:30 pm


ugh. Violet, inever mixed Morrighan with Odin. i said i have spiritual interactions with them.

and as for my believing i am Fae, i just believe it. me and a Druid friend of mine are currently researching trying to prove the existance of teh Tuatha'De Danaan as a real group of people who existed, and who's descendents live on today. we are very close to what science would call proof.

i don't know why the Morrighan would choose to adopt me, but i am telling you the truth. my Mother Goddess is the Morrighan, my prayers go out to her, she is who i turn to in time sof need, and she is always there for me.

as for the norse gods interacting with me, it is mainly because i put myself where i would be interacting with them. by getting involved in searches forknowledge that brought me to people who have deep spiritual connections with them. my relationships to Odin and Loki are not very special.

and the Itallians and Gaelic are two of many races of humans who were DIRECTLY descendant of teh Indo-European race.

Chieftain Twilight

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:36 pm


Chieftain Twilight
ugh. Violet, inever mixed Morrighan with Odin. i said i have spiritual interactions with them.

Ugh, Twilight. What makes you think that one doesn't have problems with the other on principle?

Quote:
and as for my believing i am Fae, i just believe it. me and a Druid friend of mine are currently researching trying to prove the existance of teh Tuatha'De Danaan as a real group of people who existed, and who's descendents live on today. we are very close to what science would call proof.

I don't know enough about the Tuatha'De Danaan to comment on this.

Quote:
i don't know why the Morrighan would choose to adopt me, but i am telling you the truth. my Mother Goddess is the Morrighan, my prayers go out to her, she is who i turn to in time sof need, and she is always there for me.

So you are comfortable giving worship to a goddess who is a liar and an oath-breaker? If it really is the Morrigan, she is breaking a serious oath to her people and to the land.

Quote:
as for the norse gods interacting with me, it is mainly because i put myself where i would be interacting with them. by getting involved in searches forknowledge that brought me to people who have deep spiritual connections with them. my relationships to Odin and Loki are not very special.

I would assume not, given your bond with an oath-breaker of that magnitude listed above.

Quote:
and the Itallians and Gaelic are two of many races of humans who were DIRECTLY descendant of teh Indo-European race.

Italians are Roman, not of the Gael. My source for this is someone who is actually, legitimately of the Gael.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:38 pm


Violet Song jat Shariff
Chieftain Twilight

Quote:
and the Itallians and Gaelic are two of many races of humans who were DIRECTLY descendant of teh Indo-European race.

Italians are Roman, not of the Gael. My source for this is someone who is actually, legitimately of the Gael.


And I'm a Roman!

In Medias Res IV


Sanguina Cruenta
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Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:41 pm


Chieftain Twilight
and as for my believing i am Fae, i just believe it.


Yup, I can see why that would make it so. Oh wait... wait... no, I can't.

Quote:
me and a Druid friend of mine


ZOMG! You know a zombie?! That is SO COOL. Do bits fall off've him all the time? Does he eat brains? Is it hard researching stuff when bits of rotting goo keep dripping on the books?

Quote:
are currently researching trying to prove the existance of teh Tuatha'De Danaan as a real group of people who existed, and who's descendents live on today. we are very close to what science would call proof.


EPIC FAIL LULZ. Science doesn't call ANYTHING proof. There is no proof in science.

Quote:
i don't know why the Morrighan would choose to adopt me, but i am telling you the truth. my Mother Goddess is the Morrighan, my prayers go out to her, she is who i turn to in time sof need, and she is always there for me.


See, the depressing thing is, the Morrigan is not a mother goddess. War? yes. Battlefield corpses? yes. Washing s**t in a river in a forboding way? yes. Mother? not so much.

Plus, if she is, and I am fairly sure she is, bound by this geas, I do not understand why she would break such an important oath for you. Can you explain this? Perhaps ask her? I mean, you love her, right? You wouldn't want her to dishonour herself so much just for you, would you?

Quote:
as for the norse gods interacting with me, it is mainly because i put myself where i would be interacting with them. by getting involved in searches forknowledge that brought me to people who have deep spiritual connections with them. my relationships to Odin and Loki are not very special.


I don't think you actually answered my question here. I'm curious as to why they would involve themselves with a Fae, one apparently beholden to the gods of the Gael. I mean, I don't know about them really, but I for one do not want anything to do with one of those little buggers.

Quote:
and the Itallians and Gaelic are two of many races of humans who were DIRECTLY descendant of teh Indo-European race.


Uh huh, sure, and before that, we're all descended from Homo habilis.
See, go back far enough and that "genetic link" crap loses all meaning.

But again, that doesn't mean s**t in this context. Being Gael is only a little bit to do with blood, and everything to do with culture.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:45 pm


Chieftain Twilight
ugh. Violet, inever mixed Morrighan with Odin. i said i have spiritual interactions with them.

Firstly, all humans are genetically related.
The Gael and the Italians share no more genetic similarity than the Gael and the Algerians.
Culturally, the Italians and the Gael are not (in any way, shape or form) related.
You being part British and part Italian in heritage does not create a loop-hole to the Oath that the Gods of Ireland swore to their people.
Furthermore The Morrigan is a title, not a God. It referred to, at any point in time, four separate Gods. Badbh, Macha, Annan and Nemain. Which of these Gods is it that you claim to have a relationship with? And why is it that you didn't know any of this?

Chieftain Twilight
and as for my believing i am Fae, i just believe it.

How does your perception of the Fae compare to actual mythos?
What sources do you use to provide support for this perception?

Chieftain Twilight
Druid

There are no druids. They were a caste of poets, lawyers, builders and heralds of the pan-Celtic cultures. They were wiped out by a combination of Roman expansion, the Christianisation of Europe and the Penal Laws in Ireland.
Anyone pretending the title is guilty of decontextualising of a culturally specific term in order to flatter their own ego. Upon being informed of this, and assuming they refuse to relinquish the term (which they almost certainly will), they become guilty of informed culture rape.

Chieftain Twilight
currently researching trying to prove the existance of teh Tuatha'De Danaan as a real group of people who existed

Congratulations.
You're about ten centuries behind Irish scholars.
This assertion is supported by all of the cultural texts dealing with the Tuatha De dAnnan.

It should be pointed out that the same is true for the Fír Bolg. Why is it nobody brags about being descended from them? They're much cooler than the Tuatha De

Chieftain Twilight
and who's descendents live on today.

Yes, we do.

Chieftain Twilight
we are very close to what science would call proof.

The Irish are decades ahead of you on that one.

Chieftain Twilight
i don't know why the Morrighan would choose to adopt me

She didn't.
It is clear from your posts, the context provided within them and your continued use of the title "the Morrighan" with improper spelling: that you have never encountered any of the Morrígan.

Chieftain Twilight
she is always there for me.

Then what is her name?

Chieftain Twilight
and the Itallians and Gaelic are two of many races of humans who were DIRECTLY descendant of teh Indo-European race.

No. They're not.
The Italians are an ethnic mixing pot. There's Greek, Norman, Franc, Gaul, Moor and a whole shed load of ethnicities in there contributing to your culture and ethnicity.
The Gael are pretty much isolated from the majority of that with a little bit of British and a little bit of Norman from the interbreeding of the invaders. Culturally, however, the Normans became "More Irish than the Irish themselves" and the offspring of British/Irish interactions were left to be raised by the Irish families more oft than not.

CuAnnan

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Chieftain Twilight

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:49 pm


you nkwo what, ******** all of you, you arn't even TRYING to understand my side. i am not asking you to believe it, i am explaining myself and answering questions. and you can hate and groan and gripe and b***h all you want about it. it won't change my belief. goodnight you intolerant, self-righteous know-it-all bitches.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:52 pm


Chieftain Twilight
you nkwo what, ******** all of you, you arn't even TRYING to understand my side. i am not asking you to believe it, i am explaining myself and answering questions. and you can hate and groan and gripe and b***h all you want about it. it won't change my belief. goodnight you intolerant, self-righteous know-it-all bitches.



There are no sides, there is only right or wrong.

You've been wrong multiple times.

In Medias Res IV


Violet Song jat Shariff

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:52 pm


Chieftain Twilight
you nkwo what, ******** all of you, you arn't even TRYING to understand my side.

We are, actually.
It just makes such little sense to us (aside from being factually incorrect in other places) that we really can't do much with it.
Quote:
i am not asking you to believe it, i am explaining myself and answering questions.

Never said you were trying to force us to believe it.
And funny thing is, now that we are actually asking questions, you're storming off.
Funny, that.
Quote:
and you can hate and groan and gripe and b***h all you want about it.

LOLPROJECTION.
Quote:
it won't change my belief.

Willful ignorance is comfortable, isn't it?'
Quote:
goodnight you intolerant, self-righteous know-it-all bitches.

LOLMOARPROJECTION.
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