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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:33 am
Shaviv Right. But causing her to miscarry is only destruction of property, under the law; that is what I'm basing my comment on. It can't be property destruction if it's accidental and murder if it's deliberate. That defies all common sense as well as legal regulations. So if it's destruction of property, a foetus is property. If a foetus is property, it's for the owner (the woman) to handle as she sees fit. Because it has the potential to become human life, that argues that she should use caution and good judgement, but it doesn't imply that a foetus is untouchable except to save the mother's life. hmm, but accidental killing of a person doesn't warrent capitol punishment either....
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:23 pm
Tsuto As a Type I Diabetic, I can tell you that I am for stem cell research. We have literally thousands of embryos all over which are going to do nothing else but sit in a freezer. Why not put them to good use? As for genetic research, I am for that as well. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be breeding super babies or anything of the sort, but to be able to prevent genetic diseases would be wonderful.
Good luck!
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:40 pm
ZonkotheSane hmm, but accidental killing of a person doesn't warrent capitol punishment either.... Yes it does. It's just a different mechanism. If I'm cutting wood, and my axe-head flies off and kills Bob, his family can come after me to kill me unless I reach one of a few designated safe cities. By the way, accidental homicide almost never occurrs except in cases of negligence on the part of the killer. Right now, I can't think of any exceptions, either.
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:43 pm
i think ti's fine because all they are is a bunch of no name cells
i mean there is not organs nor heart no nothing so all the anti-abortion people that say it's bad because it's some kid are wrong
it's nothing it just a bunch of cells there is not heart so they can't use the "there's a heart beat" thing
plus it helps people that are living now.
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:52 pm
YvetteEmilieDupont i think ti's fine because all they are is a bunch of no name cells i mean there is not organs nor heart no nothing so all the anti-abortion people that say it's bad because it's some kid are wrong it's nothing it just a bunch of cells there is not heart so they can't use the "there's a heart beat" thing plus it helps people that are living now. you're just a bunch of cells
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:16 pm
i know ^.^ aren't i a cut elittle buddle of cells
but there is a difference between me and a bunch of empty no appointed cells on a big science scale
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:05 pm
YvetteEmilieDupont i know ^.^ aren't i a cut elittle buddle of cells but there is a difference between me and a bunch of empty no appointed cells on a big science scale actually....once you put it on a big science scale the difference gets much, much smaller.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:34 am
Zonko's right: the difference between you and a cluster of cells is small, if you're talking about biology. It's a matter of scale rather than quality.
Now, I would say from the point of view of halakha it's about whether the cluster of cells has started to breathe, but we've all been here before.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:36 am
Shaviv Zonko's right: the difference between you and a cluster of cells is small, if you're talking about biology. It's a matter of scale rather than quality. Now, I would say from the point of view of halakha it's about whether the cluster of cells has started to breathe, but we've all been here before. Stupid Q and maybe you discussed it I don't know. Shaviv whats your "halakha training" background?
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:39 am
Shaviv Zonko's right: the difference between you and a cluster of cells is small, if you're talking about biology. It's a matter of scale rather than quality. Now, I would say from the point of view of halakha it's about whether the cluster of cells has started to breathe, but we've all been here before. hmm, in halakha there is a concept of killing potential life being a bad thing. the breathing is when the kid starts "life", even though beforehand was living. it is the point at which it is no linger (directly) dependant on the mother
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:42 am
ZonkotheSane Shaviv Zonko's right: the difference between you and a cluster of cells is small, if you're talking about biology. It's a matter of scale rather than quality. Now, I would say from the point of view of halakha it's about whether the cluster of cells has started to breathe, but we've all been here before. hmm, in halakha there is a concept of killing potential life being a bad thing. the breathing is when the kid starts "life", even though beforehand was living. it is the point at which it is no linger (directly) dependant on the mother ok "Mr periwinkle" is going to teach you all something now The baby doesn't breath till its outside the mothers body i.e. already born you idiots! Halachikly the first trimester is the cutoff date and even then circumstances have to be rather severe for an orthodox rabbi to permit it
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:43 am
Oh, it's never adviseable. I can tell you truly, the decision to abort a child is very difficult, precisely because it is a potential human being. However, due to what we've seen in the Tora about accidentally causing a woman to miscarry, it's not considered quite equivalent to a human life. If it were, the person who caused the miscarriage would have to flee to a refuge, lest the family of the woman he struck kill him in revenge.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:46 am
Shaviv Oh, it's never adviseable. I can tell you truly, the decision to abort a child is very difficult, precisely because it is a potential human being. However, due to what we've seen in the Tora about accidentally causing a woman to miscarry, it's not considered quite equivalent to a human life. If it were, the person who caused the miscarriage would have to flee to a refuge, lest the family of the woman he struck kill him in revenge. as I said whats you halachik background? because no offense you sound like what is known as a tzeduki
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:55 am
ScionoftheBlade Shaviv Oh, it's never adviseable. I can tell you truly, the decision to abort a child is very difficult, precisely because it is a potential human being. However, due to what we've seen in the Tora about accidentally causing a woman to miscarry, it's not considered quite equivalent to a human life. If it were, the person who caused the miscarriage would have to flee to a refuge, lest the family of the woman he struck kill him in revenge. As I said, what's your halachik background? Because, no offense, you sound like what is known as a tzeduki. By community affiliation I'm an Orthodox Jew. I was also raised by my parents, both Orthodox as well, to use logic and critical thinking when evaluating arguments, which I was helped in by eight years of studying Talmud in the yeshivoth I attended.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:59 am
Shaviv By community affiliation I'm an Orthodox Jew. I was also raised by my parents, both Orthodox as well, to use logic and critical thinking when evaluating arguments, which I was helped in by eight years of studying Talmud in the yeshivoth I attended. I guess I"ll have to trust your term of "orthodox" then you should know what a Tzeduki is so thats settled what do you mean by "8 years of talmud"? from what age?
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