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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:15 am
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar And you know what? You can go ahead and do that. Of course, it defies one of the fundamental principles of logic (You can't prove a statement to be true using itself as evidence), but there's nothing to keep me from telling you to not do so. If you deny logic, there is nothing I can logically say to to contradict it that will convince you of anything. Of course, I could now easily "disprove" your statement with this: The Bible is false. Therefore, the Bible is false. OR: Elephants are purple. Therefore, Evolution is correct. But by now surely you will begin to see that we've left behind any possibility of rational discourse, and the conversation will progressively get more and more absurd. The problem is that you see science as one big idea or doctrine, like the Bible. Science, in reality, is the combination of millions of different ideas that support one another. Evolution is supported by evidence in biology, not science in general. In fact, most facets of science have nothing to do with evolution. But the problem still remains that you will only accept science as proof of anything. You always win. To prove evolution, you use science. To prove the Bible, you use science. That's unfair. No; I "prove" evolution using evidence. To prove the Bible, I suppose I would have to use evidence as well. I don't see what else you'd have to go on. If I proved evolution like you're suggesting I prove the Bible, it would be something like,"Evolution is true, therefore evolution is true." You're missing the point. They are two totally different types of things: Evolution is physical, the Bible is spiritual. I'm saying that you use physical things to prove physical things and spiritual things to prove spiritual things. Quote: Quote: How would you feel if we became a totally Christian nation (hypothetically, of course. It's not like we're plotting anything. . . twisted ) and made you prove everything with the Bible? I would contact the ACLU, I suppose. We would have probably disbanded it. At that point, I think Christians forcing me to prove things using the Bible would be the least of my worries. I'd probably be a bit more concerned about my own life. After all, after civil liberties have been stripped away, what's really left? Revolution, I suppose. How did we get talking about this??? And do you see the logic of my previous statement (bolded)?
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:06 am
Fushigi na Butterfly Perhaps Adam and Eve were the first real humans (as we know humans to be today), who had the full mental and emotional capacity to reflect and worship God. Evolution doesn't have to exclude God. 3nodding Ah, the voice of reason. xd Though I have one simple answer for this thread... Christians CAN'T disprove evolution. It's that easy. We can't. How would you even begin? Start hiring your own scientists to argue the age of the earth, find something that proves all these "missing link" skeletons were their own, distinct species versus the connectors between human and ape? If you're arguing with science, you need to use science to prove yourself. And you know what? On this issue, the deck is pretty well stacked against anyone who wants to undertake this issue. Why must Christians think that science is the enemy? Science should help PROVE YOUR FAITH, not destroy it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:39 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 But the problem still remains that you will only accept science as proof of anything. You always win. To prove evolution, you use science. To prove the Bible, you use science. That's unfair. No; I "prove" evolution using evidence. To prove the Bible, I suppose I would have to use evidence as well. I don't see what else you'd have to go on. If I proved evolution like you're suggesting I prove the Bible, it would be something like,"Evolution is true, therefore evolution is true." You're missing the point. They are two totally different types of things: Evolution is physical, the Bible is spiritual. I'm saying that you use physical things to prove physical things and spiritual things to prove spiritual things. Quote: Quote: How would you feel if we became a totally Christian nation (hypothetically, of course. It's not like we're plotting anything. . . twisted ) and made you prove everything with the Bible? I would contact the ACLU, I suppose. We would have probably disbanded it. At that point, I think Christians forcing me to prove things using the Bible would be the least of my worries. I'd probably be a bit more concerned about my own life. After all, after civil liberties have been stripped away, what's really left? Revolution, I suppose. How did we get talking about this??? And do you see the logic of my previous statement (bolded)? No, because it posits that the Bible is completely spiritual, which is untrue. Science is completely natural, and God is completely supernatural. That is true. And there are a lot of people that have made the argument that both are completely separate from one another. And that may very well be true. However, because I determine my beliefs using logic, I cannot suspend that logic just for one idea that doesn't seem to be true to me. You don't have to "prove" God using science. Because God is supernatural; that's impossible. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I don't believe in Him. As I've already said; you can believe whatever you want. Just don't try to make me believe in something when clearly you have no facilities to do so.
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:12 am
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar No; I "prove" evolution using evidence. To prove the Bible, I suppose I would have to use evidence as well. I don't see what else you'd have to go on. If I proved evolution like you're suggesting I prove the Bible, it would be something like,"Evolution is true, therefore evolution is true." You're missing the point. They are two totally different types of things: Evolution is physical, the Bible is spiritual. I'm saying that you use physical things to prove physical things and spiritual things to prove spiritual things. Quote: I would contact the ACLU, I suppose. We would have probably disbanded it. At that point, I think Christians forcing me to prove things using the Bible would be the least of my worries. I'd probably be a bit more concerned about my own life. After all, after civil liberties have been stripped away, what's really left? Revolution, I suppose. How did we get talking about this??? And do you see the logic of my previous statement (bolded)? No, because it posits that the Bible is completely spiritual, which is untrue. Science is completely natural, and God is completely supernatural. That is true. And there are a lot of people that have made the argument that both are completely separate from one another. And that may very well be true. However, because I determine my beliefs using logic, I cannot suspend that logic just for one idea that doesn't seem to be true to me. You don't have to "prove" God using science. Because God is supernatural; that's impossible. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I don't believe in Him. As I've already said; you can believe whatever you want. Just don't try to make me believe in something when clearly you have no facilities to do so. "Facilities" as in proof. That is totally true. Because without faith, you can't believe in such things. I truly hope that you do find faith in Him someday.
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:39 pm
GuardianAngel44 "Facilities" as in proof. That is totally true. Because without faith, you can't believe in such things. I truly hope that you do find faith in Him someday. Because faith is a "you need to meet me halfway" thing. God has already given us the Bible, hundreds of thousands of resources (people we know, books and articles and the internet) to learn more... but there's still only so much. Then comes the time that God looks down and says "you can know more... just trust me. Believe, and there's information on the other side." God wants us to come to him... and he'll give us understanding. We can't prove this until it's done, and so many people can't imagine making that leap. They'll be forever seperated from what Christians know about the spiritual realm because they could never bring themselves to one day go "what the heck" and just DO it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:44 pm
ryuu_chan GuardianAngel44 "Facilities" as in proof. That is totally true. Because without faith, you can't believe in such things. I truly hope that you do find faith in Him someday. Because faith is a "you need to meet me halfway" thing. God has already given us the Bible, hundreds of thousands of resources (people we know, books and articles and the internet) to learn more... but there's still only so much. Then comes the time that God looks down and says "you can know more... just trust me. Believe, and there's information on the other side." God wants us to come to him... and he'll give us understanding. We can't prove this until it's done, and so many people can't imagine making that leap. They'll be forever seperated from what Christians know about the spiritual realm because they could never bring themselves to one day go "what the heck" and just DO it.
Hebrews 11:1
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:51 pm
Ah, my favorite verse. xd
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:51 pm
OMG, I love that verse. I have it on a dog tag I bought at a Christian concert event. I love, love, love that verse. 3nodding
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:28 pm
Squireof the son Simple/ Their creation theory cannot be used. It can't be proven by using the scientific method. You have to recreate the scenerio, which is next to impossible according to science. Also, carbon dating is completely inaccurrate. The method in which it's done is full of flaws. So many things can throw it off. So, I can use science to beat science. smile (sorry for any misspellings). Hey do you know of any sites I can look that up. I heard of that flaw but I would like to read it myself.
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:29 pm
This might be a bit off-topic... sweatdrop
We are learning evolution in Social Studies, and on the first day...
It didn't make sense.
Any tips on when it's going to come together?
xd
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:58 am
Sakura_Chan133 This might be a bit off-topic... sweatdrop
We are learning evolution in Social Studies, and on the first day...
It didn't make sense.
Any tips on when it's going to come together?
xd Social Darwinism, I would guess. It was a popular belief in the 1800's when we were killing Native Americans.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:36 am
ryuu_chan Fushigi na Butterfly Perhaps Adam and Eve were the first real humans (as we know humans to be today), who had the full mental and emotional capacity to reflect and worship God. Evolution doesn't have to exclude God. 3nodding Ah, the voice of reason. xd Though I have one simple answer for this thread... Christians CAN'T disprove evolution. It's that easy. We can't. How would you even begin? Start hiring your own scientists to argue the age of the earth, find something that proves all these "missing link" skeletons were their own, distinct species versus the connectors between human and ape? If you're arguing with science, you need to use science to prove yourself. And you know what? On this issue, the deck is pretty well stacked against anyone who wants to undertake this issue. Why must Christians think that science is the enemy? Science should help PROVE YOUR FAITH, not destroy it. I have to agree but I must admit it that evolution has it's flaws.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:13 pm
Friendly Yoshi I have to agree but I must admit it that evolution has it's flaws. Oh, I'm not arguing that in the least. Then again, EVERY creation theory/mythos has its flaws. There are just things in the universe that man was not meant to comprehend, and using one flawed method to disprove another flawed method is an exercise in futility. Please read that in the gentlest of tones. I realize now that came out sounding a little harsher than I wanted, but I can't think of any other way to put it.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:28 pm
Friendly Yoshi ryuu_chan Fushigi na Butterfly Perhaps Adam and Eve were the first real humans (as we know humans to be today), who had the full mental and emotional capacity to reflect and worship God. Evolution doesn't have to exclude God. 3nodding Ah, the voice of reason. xd Though I have one simple answer for this thread... Christians CAN'T disprove evolution. It's that easy. We can't. How would you even begin? Start hiring your own scientists to argue the age of the earth, find something that proves all these "missing link" skeletons were their own, distinct species versus the connectors between human and ape? If you're arguing with science, you need to use science to prove yourself. And you know what? On this issue, the deck is pretty well stacked against anyone who wants to undertake this issue. Why must Christians think that science is the enemy? Science should help PROVE YOUR FAITH, not destroy it. I have to agree but I must admit it that evolution has it's flaws. Define "flaws" and name them.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:05 pm
Friendly Yoshi ryuu_chan Fushigi na Butterfly Perhaps Adam and Eve were the first real humans (as we know humans to be today), who had the full mental and emotional capacity to reflect and worship God. Evolution doesn't have to exclude God. 3nodding Ah, the voice of reason. xd Though I have one simple answer for this thread... Christians CAN'T disprove evolution. It's that easy. We can't. How would you even begin? Start hiring your own scientists to argue the age of the earth, find something that proves all these "missing link" skeletons were their own, distinct species versus the connectors between human and ape? If you're arguing with science, you need to use science to prove yourself. And you know what? On this issue, the deck is pretty well stacked against anyone who wants to undertake this issue. Why must Christians think that science is the enemy? Science should help PROVE YOUR FAITH, not destroy it. I have to agree but I must admit it that evolution has it's flaws.
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