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Fushigi na Butterfly

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:12 am


You can't just decide you're gay or transgendered. You can realize it, but you can't decide it. I would also assume (and this is an assumption on my part so I could be way off the mark) that realizing you're in the "wrong" body is alot more traumatic than realizing that you're simply attracted to members of the same sex. I have to agree that alot of mental disorders and deviations (and I don't want either of those terms to sound offensive in any way- it's just what most of the scientific, especially the psychological, community refers to these situations as) are a result of sin in some way, only insomuch as they cause problems for people around those individuals. It's hard to understand someone who is attracted to members of the same sex or who feels they are honestly in the wrong body, especially if the same is not true for yourself or if you have no experience dealing with these notions. They're a result of sin the same way all other sicknesses are, but sicknesses themselves aren't bad- they're just microorganisms doing what nature and God intended for microorganisms to do: survive. What's bad is that our bodies see these other organisms as threatening (and sometimes they are, but sometimes they aren't- like dust and pollen and pet dander, wtf?) and flips out, causing us to feel sick. Homosexuality and transgenderism (I think I made up that word) is like that. They exist naturally, maybe unfortunately (for the people who aren't sure how to deal with the situation in a healthy way) not because those things in themselves are bad, but because our society sees them as threatening and freaks out, making those people feel bad.

There is a reason for these things (usually biochemical) and maybe one day researchers will figure out exactly what causes "gay" and what causes "transgenderism" and try to stop it, for the sake of those people who don't know how to deal with it. It would be quite a pity though. I don't have any transgendered friends in real life but I've got plenty of gay ones and they're so much fun. biggrin
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:24 pm


Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
In my experience with dealing with transgendered individuals I have noticed that the first reaction is for people to blame God and wonder how He could have screwed up. The answer is that God doesn't screw up. Everything He does He does for a reason. I can't begin to imagine, much less explain why He would give someone a body that doesn't match up with the chemicals in their brain (since male and female is more than biological and anatomical differences; male brains work much differently than female brains). But in God's eyes there is no gender. Galatians 3:28 tells us:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


You should show this verse to your friend. It might help him.

God created each and every one of us (Psalm 139:13-16) and He made no mistake in any of our details. He doesn't make people He doesn't intend to love, and He loves everyone just the way He has made them.

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?

Lethkhar


freelance lover
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:59 pm


Lyneun
Not to split hairs, Liz, but the proper pronoun in this case is "he". No exceptions.


Yeah, I was just rereading this thread and I just caught that. No offense meant, I just apperently can't read, type, or some combination of the two.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:04 pm


Explain to me why 'he' is proper, please. I'm just NOT getting that.

Silver Wingling


freelance lover
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:06 pm


Fushigi na Butterfly
Oldillo
Fushigi na Butterfly
In my experience with dealing with transgendered individuals I have noticed that the first reaction is for people to blame God and wonder how He could have screwed up. The answer is that God doesn't screw up. Everything He does He does for a reason. I can't begin to imagine, much less explain why He would give someone a body that doesn't match up with the chemicals in their brain (since male and female is more than biological and anatomical differences; male brains work much differently than female brains). But in God's eyes there is no gender. Galatians 3:28 tells us:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


You should show this verse to your friend. It might help him.

God created each and every one of us (Psalm 139:13-16) and He made no mistake in any of our details. He doesn't make people He doesn't intend to love, and He loves everyone just the way He has made them.


I don't see how you can say God makes no mistakes and yet think it is ok for her to do this. God doesn't give people bodies that don't fit their brains. It's deeper than that. I say, this is a big mistake.


First of all, gender is a concept invented by culture. The society you're born into decides what is male and what is female, what is appropriate for a male to do and what is appropriate for a female to do. If it weren't for the stigmas and solid lines humans draw between male and female then transgendered individuals would have no problem accepting who they are as God made them.

Secondly, just because we don't agree with or understand something does not mean it is a mistake on God's part. If a teacher gives you a bad grade that you don't like it has nothing to do with the teacher making a mistake (generally). In most situations, once you understand why you were given that grade things are much better.


There's a Women's Museum in Dallas and in one of their exibits is says something to the effect of:

"When boys are born, they're dressed in blue and told to grow up big and strong while girls are put in pink lace and told how adorable they are. As children, boys are told to climb trees and get dirty while girls are told to be careful and not let their panties show. As teenagers, boys are told to eat up so they can grow up big and strong while girls are told to watch what they eat so they don't get fat. And we wonder why men and women differ from one another so much."

The point is that (like Fushigi said) gender identity is based on the notions society has given us, but God is removed from this so to him Gender is irrelevant.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:05 pm


Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
In my experience with dealing with transgendered individuals I have noticed that the first reaction is for people to blame God and wonder how He could have screwed up. The answer is that God doesn't screw up. Everything He does He does for a reason. I can't begin to imagine, much less explain why He would give someone a body that doesn't match up with the chemicals in their brain (since male and female is more than biological and anatomical differences; male brains work much differently than female brains). But in God's eyes there is no gender. Galatians 3:28 tells us:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


You should show this verse to your friend. It might help him.

God created each and every one of us (Psalm 139:13-16) and He made no mistake in any of our details. He doesn't make people He doesn't intend to love, and He loves everyone just the way He has made them.

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Fushigi na Butterfly

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Priestley

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:10 am


Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

(Can't... resist... pun...)

That's a bitter pill to swallow.

xd
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:49 am


Priestley
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

(Can't... resist... pun...)

That's a bitter pill to swallow.

xd


rofl That was hilarious. Sorry, but you just made my day at ten to ten in the morning. xd

x unobstructed pencil x


SydelleRein

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:25 pm


Tough one, but this is what I think: Transexuality is a sin, yes. God made us a certain way for a reason and we do not have a right to change that. That's like looking at the original Mona Lisa and drawing a mustache on it. The painting is not our masterpiece, we have no right to defile it.

However, no sin is unforgiveable. Everybody sins, everybody. Even the most "holy" of Christians. Personally, I find it hard to believe that any true Christian would commit this particular sin, but i cannot say it's impossible.

Basically it comes down to this: Is your friend a true Christian who is simply making a bad choice, or is she thinking more along the lines of "it doesn't matter what I do because God will forgive me anyway." In the second case, this person is simply taking advantage of God's loving/forgiving way and I would most certainly not call him/her a true Christian.

Hope this helps!

Edit: I'm going to add one more thing. If your friend is wondering if she would still be "ok" with God and be able to go to Heaven, she seriously needs to readjust her thinking. The question of going to Heaven should never be a question, because that says you're only interested in the rewards of a Christian life. Rather, the question should be how can she please God? What does God want of her? The objective should always be to please God, not to get to Heaven.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:56 pm


Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
In my experience with dealing with transgendered individuals I have noticed that the first reaction is for people to blame God and wonder how He could have screwed up. The answer is that God doesn't screw up. Everything He does He does for a reason. I can't begin to imagine, much less explain why He would give someone a body that doesn't match up with the chemicals in their brain (since male and female is more than biological and anatomical differences; male brains work much differently than female brains). But in God's eyes there is no gender. Galatians 3:28 tells us:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


You should show this verse to your friend. It might help him.

God created each and every one of us (Psalm 139:13-16) and He made no mistake in any of our details. He doesn't make people He doesn't intend to love, and He loves everyone just the way He has made them.

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...

Lethkhar


Garage Drummer

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:08 am


Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...


When your mom grounds you for staying out too late, does it mean she doesn't love you?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:19 pm


Garage Drummer
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...


When your mom grounds you for staying out too late, does it mean she doesn't love you?

*Shrugs*

I wouldn't know. I've never been grounded. Besides, I hardly consider that an adequate metaphor.

Lethkhar


GuardianAngel44

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:17 pm


Lethkhar
Garage Drummer
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...


When your mom grounds you for staying out too late, does it mean she doesn't love you?

*Shrugs*

I wouldn't know. I've never been grounded. Besides, I hardly consider that an adequate metaphor.

Show-off.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:16 pm


Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar
Fushigi na Butterfly
Lethkhar

Does that mean I'm going to Heaven?


Do you accept His love?

Whether I did or not, wouldn't God still love me for it? He doesn't make mistakes. If He made me to not accept His love, then surely I wouldn't go to Hell for being a "broken" human?


He would still love you regardless (just because or if you don't accept His love doesn't make His death and resurrection any less real; they still happened, and they still happened for you and the rest of humanity). But if you don't accept it then you don't reap the benefits of it. Just like you can know all the benefits of vegetables, but you don't get their benefits by looking at them and intellectually knowing. You have to take part and be proactive. And we're pretending their are no multivitamins or substitutes, because there is no multivitamin or substitute for God.

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...


Because God's love is a gift. You can't enjoy the gift if you don't accept it. That's all there is to it.

Fushigi na Butterfly

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The Amazing Ryuu
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:11 pm


Lethkhar

Once again, we reach the point where I really cannot see how that is love...

Lethkhar, I know that you're a good guy. You're more mature than other kids your age, you go out of your way to help those in need. You work hard to be a good, kind, giving person. Say, for the sake of argument, you could get into heaven through works alone. You made it. You earned your way. And the guy right in front of you is a man who beats his wife in drunken fits every night, is cheating on her with an underage girl, has openly killed a number of people and is generally the type of person one would think is not getting into heaven. He's allowed to pass through the gates without so much as 'I'm sorry.' Wouldn't it irk you a little to know that you WORKED for this, and someone else who doesn't care what he did in life because HEY, look! Heaven's free. In God's eyes it's very simple: to come into his house, you have to know him. And you have to apologize for breaking his rules. Not everyone aspires to be a good person, and not everyone wants to hang around the people who couldn't care less. God knows this, and I personally think it's a fantastic form of love that he's allowing those of us who strive to be good from the people we couldn't tolerate in life and would only bring nastiness and corruption into a holy place.

/end rant
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