Welcome to Gaia! ::

Reply Pro-Life/Pro-Choice Discussion
We're not all bad ... Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 ... 4 5 6 7 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

La Veuve Zin

Rainbow Smoker

5,650 Points
  • Mega Tipsy 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Ultimate Player 200
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:51 pm


miyo_esparanza

I guess I'm just really worried that the crazy pro-choicers in the ADT are going to be taken at face-value, and that some people will judge all pro-choicers by them.


Awesome idea, and I'm not even being sarcastic:

Think they're crazy? Go tell them so. Tell them they don't represent the majority of pro-choicers. Tell them they don't speak for you. Tell them you're pro-choice and you disagree!

I argue with stupid pro-lifers all the time. Do I have a counterpart? Noooo....
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:30 pm


La Veuve Zin
miyo_esparanza

I guess I'm just really worried that the crazy pro-choicers in the ADT are going to be taken at face-value, and that some people will judge all pro-choicers by them.


Awesome idea, and I'm not even being sarcastic:

Think they're crazy? Go tell them so. Tell them they don't represent the majority of pro-choicers. Tell them they don't speak for you. Tell them you're pro-choice and you disagree!

I argue with stupid pro-lifers all the time. Do I have a counterpart? Noooo....


I would, and sometimes try to ... but a lot of the 'pro-choicers' in the ADT aren't interested in being pro-choice for any reason other then to argue with anyone that walks by (or rather, posts), and 'win the debate'. It's not worth it most of the time. I try to post and let them know that their arguments are silly when they obviously are, but other then that, I think I've mostly just resorted to lurking a bunch. razz

Lady Miyo


rweghrheh

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:32 pm


miyo_esparanza
sachiko_sohma
4
Why do people take adoption into concideration or at least think about it? It's also an option for people that can't care for the child, yet will still be able to have a life.

Not to sound rude (more like i'm curious), but how is aborting a child you don't want or can't care for not out of personal gain?


I think you mean why 'don't' they? If that's what you mean, then here's my reasons for it:

First and foremost, adoption is something my husband and I have also discussed extensively when talking about what we would do should I again become unexpectedly pregnant, and for some reason we cannot care for it. It's not that we haven't considered it at all, we have considered it a LOT, actually.

I was adopted. I was put into the foster care system when I was 5, along with two of my biological sisters (ages 2 and infant). I was adopted when I was about 6 1/2. It was the worst time of my life. The first few years of my life were equally as difficult, since neither of my biological parents were capable of caring for me. The years after I was adopted were spent going through tons of therapy to try and help me cope with the various issues I had from being abandoned by my biological parents. It didn't help that I still had visits with my biological parents (I really really hated the whole 'open adoption' thing; it can be good for some, but VERY detrimental to others), because everyother weekend I was faced with seeing one or the other of them, and always went home wondering why mommy and daddy didn't love me enough to take care of me, or at least keep me.

I would never want to put one of my babies into the adoption system, my husband wouldn't want that, the pressure from the rest of both of our families would be to the point of being disowned, AND trying to explain to my existing children 'Well, Mommy's growing a baby brother or sister for you in her belly, but we're going to give it away because we can't pay for it.' is just .... unthinkable.

I personally, for the situation I'm in, would not abort a baby because I didn't want him. I would want any of my babies to live, could I somehow care for them.
As for aborting a baby that I couldn't care for ... I don't feel that I have anything to gain from it, and everything to lose from not aborting. I'm more afraid of the damage that it would do to my existing children and family, then what I could gain from aborting that child.


Yeah I ment don't.

Anyways, as for adoption, I think that all depends.

I know quite abit of people that were adopted or were in Foster Care. Some people were happy and got adopted into a good family and some people were miserable ( but I also know alot of people that weren't adopted and still had alot of family problems).

basically as you said it's good for some and bad/ traumatic for others. All depends on the person and situation.

I rather give it up for adoption, I don't think I could deal with abortion and that would be harder to explain to my family (if I ever got pregnant).

Sorry I hope I didn't offend you and I was mainly asking that question to all the pro-choicers to hear what everyone had to say.

By the way, I stopped going to the ADT thread long about. I felt that posting on that forum was pointless (all people seem to do in there is insult each other so it wasn't much of a debate anymore).
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:38 pm


sachiko_sohma


Yeah I ment don't.

Anyways, as for adoption, I think that all depends.

I know quite abit of people that were adopted or were in Foster Care. Some people were happy and got adopted into a good family and some people were miserable ( but I also know alot of people that weren't adopted and still had alot of family problems).

basically as you said it's good for some and bad/ traumatic for others. All depends on the person and situation.

I rather give it up for adoption, I don't think I could deal with abortion and that would be harder to explain to my family (if I ever got pregnant).

Sorry I hope I didn't offend you and I was mainly asking that question to all the pro-choicers to hear what everyone had to say.

By the way, I stopped going to the ADT thread long about. I felt that posting on that forum was pointless (all people seem to do in there is insult each other so it wasn't much of a debate anymore).


I didn't think that you were being rude at all 3nodding

For me, it'd be harder to give my baby up for adoption, especially after growing it for nine months in my belly, and giving birth to it. The pressures from my family, and my husbands family would be crazy, and for us, it would just be better to abort a little fetus that's barely even got a heart, then to give away a fully grown baby that may or may not have a terrible/wonderful life. But that's just me. For someone else, in a different situation, I could see the opposite being true. It's different for everyone, and that's fine with me.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought that my baby would have a terrible experience in the foster/adoption system because I did, just that the experience I had is a part of what has made my decision about it.

The ADT just keeps getting crazier and crazier, but I keep trying, in the hopes that I'll at least get across to *some* of them.

Lady Miyo


ShadowIce

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:40 pm


Tiger of the Fire
There is a difference between not wanting to put forth extra effort for another child, and protecting your health. ShadowIce claims she has a severe mental condition in that she has severe suicidal thoughts. The only thing holding these thoughts back is a drug that helps to balance the chemicals in her brain (or so I would assume from the way she described her situation) This drug is known to cause fetal defects she claims, and so to have a child she would have to come off it, but then theres that problem of suicide. Should something happen, and she became pregnant. She couldn't just drop the meds. This is what we call self defense.

Maybe I'll try to explain my situation a little bit more. I have PTSD and an anxiety disorder (yes, PTSD is an anxiety disorder, but apparently I have more than one). I was diagnosed with depression, although I probably don't have it anymore and am not being treated for it. I take two anti-anxiety medications to function. Medication A I take every day at night and I can't come off of without breaking down. I was forced to come off of Medication A for a couple of days because I ran out of pills and the pharmacy couldn't refill me for a bit, and I was a wreck. I require this medication to function. This is the medication that has unknown effects on fetuses/embryos/etc. My other medication, Medication B, I take as needed. Depending on my stress level, I may not need to take it at all for weeks. Or I may need to take it daily for a while. I could come off of Medication B, but only if I gave up anything that required me to be able function consistently. For example, I couldn't work or go to school because my stress would get to a level where I needed to take medication or go home and wait it out. This medication is known to cause fetal defects. Thus, outside of an abortion, these are my options:

1) Continue both medications and hope they continue to work the way they do when I'm not pregnant. If they worked the same, I could continue school unless the pregnancy itself unbalanced me. If they worked differently, all bets are off. Doing this, I'd be risking that either or both medications harm the fetus. If all went well, this option would have the least stress on me (and keep in mind that stress affects the fetus).

2) Continue Medication A and discontinue Medication B. I would have to move home for the duration of the pregnancy, but as long as the pregnancy didn't unbalance me and Medication A kept working, my life would not be in danger. Doing this, the fetus would be safe from Medication B (which is known to cause defects) but not from Medication A (which may or may not be safe). Both the fetus and I would have to deal with an increased stress level.

3) Discontinue both medications and check myself into a mental hospital for the duration. My stress level would be through the roof, and thus might be a threat to the fetus.

Now, these are all absolutely options. I likely wouldn't die unless I tried to discontinue Medication A without checking into a hospital. Yes, my life would be negatively affected in an extreme way. But miyo_esparanza says hers would be as well. And although it wouldn't be good to keep taking the meds while being pregnant, these meds just come with a chance that the fetus will be deformed. With an abortion, the fetus is guaranteed to be dead.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:45 pm


Post Under Review by PLG Mods.

Tiger of the Fire


divineseraph

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:22 pm


miyo_esparanza
divineseraph

Bullshit. How is killing someone thinking of them? I'm sorry, I cannot accept that as an answer. You are willing to kill a child to maintain your sexual relationship, yes? If the abortion is not selfish, then the means to creating the aborted fetus are.


Euthanasia?

I agree that it may be selfish, I see where you guys are coming from. I still see it as protecting my existing children, and the relationship that I have with my husband. I'd do the same thing if, say, hugging my husband could result in a pregnancy, or something that didn't involve sex. Sex is just a small part of the many things that I cherish with my relationship with my husband, and I hold it on the same level as being able to talk to him daily, or being able to fall asleep together at night.

Please, as angering as my opinions may be, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, or 'convert' or say why I'm 'right' in doing anything. I'm just trying to show that the pro-choicers aren't all heartless bastards the way that some pro-lifers seem to think (in the same way that pro-lifers care about everyone, not 'just the fetuses'). Please try to remain civil.


I never said that all choicers were horrible monsters. However, on this issue, I can see the selfishness. And as mentioned earlier, selfishness is not always bad. however, in my opinion, since I feel that feti are people yet to be born and hold them to a high value, this selfishness IS bad, at least in this one case. This is not to say that I think you walk down the street kicking babies and punching the elderly. I just disagree with and dislike your stance on this one issue.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:22 pm


Tiger of the Fire
Post Under Review by PLG Mods.


Please stop assuming things about me. You do not know the specifics of my situation, and if it were as simple as 'working harder', then trust me, I wouldn't get an abortion.
I am tired of your thinly veiled insults, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting them here, or I will go and speak to a Mod about it.

Lady Miyo


Lady Miyo

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:23 pm


divineseraph

I never said that all choicers were horrible monsters. However, on this issue, I can see the selfishness. And as mentioned earlier, selfishness is not always bad. however, in my opinion, since I feel that feti are people yet to be born and hold them to a high value, this selfishness IS bad, at least in this one case. This is not to say that I think you walk down the street kicking babies and punching the elderly. I just disagree with and dislike your stance on this one issue.


Okay, I can understand and accept that.
Let's at least be happy that at this point this isn't a decision that I have to make, and let's hope it's one that I NEVER have to make.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:38 pm


miyo_esparanza
Tiger of the Fire
Post under review by PLG mods.


Please stop assuming things about me. You do not know the specifics of my situation, and if it were as simple as 'working harder', then trust me, I wouldn't get an abortion.
I am tired of your thinly veiled insults, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting them here, or I will go and speak to a Mod about it.


I'm not insulting you. I'm being blunt with what I think of you, and not jerking you around by sugar coating my words. Miranda, Myself, and Watermoon110 are the mods here, (but really, you can contact any of the crew members)

Tiger of the Fire


Decrepit Faith
Crew

6,100 Points
  • Elocutionist 200
  • Tycoon 200
  • Generous 100
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:42 pm


Tiger of the Fire
miyo_esparanza
Tiger of the Fire
Post under review by PLG mods.


Please stop assuming things about me. You do not know the specifics of my situation, and if it were as simple as 'working harder', then trust me, I wouldn't get an abortion.
I am tired of your thinly veiled insults, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting them here, or I will go and speak to a Mod about it.


I'm not insulting you. I'm being blunt with what I think of you, and not jerking you around by sugar coating my words. Miranda, Myself, and Watermoon110 are the mods here, (but really, you can contact any of the crew members)

FYI, I'm Miranda. XD Everyone calls me by my real name.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:03 am


Beware the Jabberwock
Tiger of the Fire
miyo_esparanza
Tiger of the Fire
Post under review by PLG mods.


Please stop assuming things about me. You do not know the specifics of my situation, and if it were as simple as 'working harder', then trust me, I wouldn't get an abortion.
I am tired of your thinly veiled insults, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting them here, or I will go and speak to a Mod about it.


I'm not insulting you. I'm being blunt with what I think of you, and not jerking you around by sugar coating my words. Miranda, Myself, and Watermoon110 are the mods here, (but really, you can contact any of the crew members)

FYI, I'm Miranda. XD Everyone calls me by my real name.


Oh, yeah, woops. I forget not every one knows that. Miranda = Beware the Jabberwock

Tiger of the Fire


La Veuve Zin

Rainbow Smoker

5,650 Points
  • Mega Tipsy 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Ultimate Player 200
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:34 pm


ShadowIce
And although it wouldn't be good to keep taking the meds while being pregnant, these meds just come with a chance that the fetus will be deformed. With an abortion, the fetus is guaranteed to be dead.


I'm not trying to sound snarky, honest here:

This is all conditional on you becoming pregnant. And you know how to avoid pregnancy, right? There are even things you can do to lessen your chance of ever being raped (and some birth control will work whether you consent to intercourse or not).

I'm in a similar situation, with severe depression and anxiety, plus I'm in a rather demanding college program, and I don't ever want biological children--several genetic illnesses run in my family.

But I've had virtually no problem avoiding pregnancy while having a normal sex life. I don't even take hormonal birth control. I know I have very little chance of ever getting pregnant through rape, and if I don't consent to any behaviour that could get me pregnant...well...I won't get pregnant! Simple as that.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:47 pm


La Veuve Zin
ShadowIce
And although it wouldn't be good to keep taking the meds while being pregnant, these meds just come with a chance that the fetus will be deformed. With an abortion, the fetus is guaranteed to be dead.


I'm not trying to sound snarky, honest here:

This is all conditional on you becoming pregnant. And you know how to avoid pregnancy, right? There are even things you can do to lessen your chance of ever being raped (and some birth control will work whether you consent to intercourse or not).

I'm in a similar situation, with severe depression and anxiety, plus I'm in a rather demanding college program, and I don't ever want biological children--several genetic illnesses run in my family.

But I've had virtually no problem avoiding pregnancy while having a normal sex life. I don't even take hormonal birth control. I know I have very little chance of ever getting pregnant through rape, and if I don't consent to any behaviour that could get me pregnant...well...I won't get pregnant! Simple as that.


Yes there are plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy.

I have lot of health problems but I won't abort just because there might be serious risks for the fetus or me (only if I know for sure that something is seriously wrong and I would die if I didn't abort or if the child would be in alot of pain due to illness and would die anyways. That would be the one of the only cases I would ever concidered it).

rweghrheh


ShadowIce

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:12 pm


La Veuve Zin
I'm not trying to sound snarky, honest here:

This is all conditional on you becoming pregnant. And you know how to avoid pregnancy, right? There are even things you can do to lessen your chance of ever being raped (and some birth control will work whether you consent to intercourse or not).

I'm in a similar situation, with severe depression and anxiety, plus I'm in a rather demanding college program, and I don't ever want biological children--several genetic illnesses run in my family.

But I've had virtually no problem avoiding pregnancy while having a normal sex life. I don't even take hormonal birth control. I know I have very little chance of ever getting pregnant through rape, and if I don't consent to any behaviour that could get me pregnant...well...I won't get pregnant! Simple as that.

Absolutely this is conditional on me getting pregnant. After all, I can't have an abortion if I'm not pregnant. And I'm sure that both sides (pro-life and pro-choice) can agree that preventing an unwanted pregnancy is better than having an abortion. But every day women get pregnant when they don't want to be, even when they think they won't.
Reply
Pro-Life/Pro-Choice Discussion

Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 ... 4 5 6 7 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum