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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:34 pm
Daxelman The Death Blues Mix That site is bullshit and any Metal Gear Fan that hates MGS2 isn't actually a fan.
The whole point of the game was that you were playing an illusion. There is more to the world than just Snake. Raiden was an actor trapped in the play written by the Patriots. To enjoy the game you had to identify Raiden as Raiden and Snake as Snake, and thusly separate the two as humans.
It wasn't a bait and switch. It was a story. You don't say a book bait and switched you when the main character dies and is replaced by the factual main character. Or a movie where the actors changed.
Aside from Olga, and Liquid being in there every so often, there was no point in having Snake around except to guide Raiden. It wasn't Snake's story. It was like having Amuro and Char playing Kamille's mentors in Zeta Gundam. Or Hikaru suddenly Skull Squadron commander after Roy Folker dies.
Almost the same thing as saying Anyone who is an Final Fantasy fan and hates Final Fantasy 7 is not really a fan.
That is the same thing.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:38 pm
Thank you! Someone who understands! It is up to you if it's a classic. The old RE games did have some God awful cameras. This one was solving one problem (camera angles) but one still remained the same (movement reminiscent to a paralyzed robot). The game just isn't worthy of being "greatest game of all time", or even in the top 100; contrary to what IGN says. Then again, IGN's credibility level has been a bit shaky, ever since they awarded a Hannah Montana game the "Best Music Game" award of E3 '07.......
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:49 pm
Zombicide Thank you! Someone who understands! It is up to you if it's a classic. The old RE games did have some God awful cameras. This one was solving one problem (camera angles) but one still remained the same (movement reminiscent to a paralyzed robot). The game just isn't worthy of being "greatest game of all time", or even in the top 100; contrary to what IGN says. Then again, IGN's credibility level has been a bit shaky, ever since they awarded a Hannah Montana game the "Best Music Game" award of E3 '07.......
You couldn't give it to Rock Band, hearing only 45 songs on the disk butchers it place.
Can't give it to GH, Reptilla and TtFatF(Dragonforce) being the only songs worth playing on that abysmal setlist.
AFI, cmon.....
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:53 pm
Zombicide Thank you! Someone who understands! It is up to you if it's a classic. The old RE games did have some God awful cameras. This one was solving one problem (camera angles) but one still remained the same (movement reminiscent to a paralyzed robot). The game just isn't worthy of being "greatest game of all time", or even in the top 100; contrary to what IGN says. Then again, IGN's credibility level has been a bit shaky, ever since they awarded a Hannah Montana game the "Best Music Game" award of E3 '07....... It's 100% preference and 100% opinion. On a side note, I actually have a couple of people in my college class that like Hannah Montana. I like a couple of the songs.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:14 pm
HistoryWak Daxelman The Death Blues Mix That site is bullshit and any Metal Gear Fan that hates MGS2 isn't actually a fan.
The whole point of the game was that you were playing an illusion. There is more to the world than just Snake. Raiden was an actor trapped in the play written by the Patriots. To enjoy the game you had to identify Raiden as Raiden and Snake as Snake, and thusly separate the two as humans.
It wasn't a bait and switch. It was a story. You don't say a book bait and switched you when the main character dies and is replaced by the factual main character. Or a movie where the actors changed.
Aside from Olga, and Liquid being in there every so often, there was no point in having Snake around except to guide Raiden. It wasn't Snake's story. It was like having Amuro and Char playing Kamille's mentors in Zeta Gundam. Or Hikaru suddenly Skull Squadron commander after Roy Folker dies.
Almost the same thing as saying Anyone who is an Final Fantasy fan and hates Final Fantasy 7 is not really a fan.
That is the same thing.
Final Fantasy 7 has no connection to any other FF aside from the compilation of FF7 in a canon story sense. It's totally possible to hate FF7 and be a FF fan because there is no connection and there is a quality difference. The script was bad, story generic, broken gameplay, etc.
However, MGS2 was better than MGS1 in every way. From the quality of the narrative to the gameplay to the presentation.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:12 pm
The Death Blues Mix HistoryWak Daxelman The Death Blues Mix That site is bullshit and any Metal Gear Fan that hates MGS2 isn't actually a fan.
The whole point of the game was that you were playing an illusion. There is more to the world than just Snake. Raiden was an actor trapped in the play written by the Patriots. To enjoy the game you had to identify Raiden as Raiden and Snake as Snake, and thusly separate the two as humans.
It wasn't a bait and switch. It was a story. You don't say a book bait and switched you when the main character dies and is replaced by the factual main character. Or a movie where the actors changed.
Aside from Olga, and Liquid being in there every so often, there was no point in having Snake around except to guide Raiden. It wasn't Snake's story. It was like having Amuro and Char playing Kamille's mentors in Zeta Gundam. Or Hikaru suddenly Skull Squadron commander after Roy Folker dies.
Almost the same thing as saying Anyone who is an Final Fantasy fan and hates Final Fantasy 7 is not really a fan.
That is the same thing.
Final Fantasy 7 has no connection to any other FF aside from the compilation of FF7 in a canon story sense. It's totally possible to hate FF7 and be a FF fan because there is no connection and there is a quality difference. The script was bad, story generic, broken gameplay, etc.
However, MGS2 was better than MGS1 in every way. From the quality of the narrative to the gameplay to the presentation.
95.887 percent of FF fans will base there fanship off of FF7.
If you don't like FF7, your not an FF fan.
And Gosh Blues, acting all knowingly today, did Cthulhu give you a job at ruling reality today or what?
Despite all your knowledge of things Metal Gear Solid, there are people out there who think MGS1 is better than MGS2. Just like there are people who think Half Life 1 is better than Half Life 2, or that Jak and Daxter is better than Jak 2.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 pm
Daxelman
95.887 percent of FF fans will base there fanship off of FF7.
If you don't like FF7, your not an FF fan.
And Gosh Blues, acting all knowingly today, did Cthulhu give you a job at ruling reality today or what?
Despite all your knowledge of things Metal Gear Solid, there are people out there who think MGS1 is better than MGS2. Just like there are people who think Half Life 1 is better than Half Life 2, or that Jak and Daxter is better than Jak 2.
That's why a lot of people remember FF7 so fondly, or Final Fantasy Tactics so fondly. Both had horribly translated scripts. In the case of FF7 the materia system was gimped compared to the previous Esper system, the characters were only defined by their visual appearance and limit breaks, the story itself is weak, the battle system was flawed and easily broken and exploited, amongst other things. The only thing it did that could feasibly separate it from generations past was that it was pseudo-3d and had cut scenes.
The PSP port and retranslation of Final Fantasy Tactics, aside from the game slow downs here and there, proved that the game held up through the ages and is still a good game made better by the revisions it needed. However, the battle system in the original was already solid with a minor exploit in the Calculator/Arithmetic, and Orlandu.
Metal Gear Solid is a solid (pun) set up for MGS2 which, for all intents and purposes, was the Ghost in the Shell to Masamune's Appleseed. Appleseed was good, Ghost in the Shell was better just because it came later and had more thought put into it. The game mechanics were tighter, the cast of characters more fleshed out. The plot, while ambiguous, was still presented in a much greater capacity than the original entry into the Solid half of the Metal Gear franchise.
Everything had a reason, even Raiden's personality.
The game itself was better.
The reason people were frustrated was because they didn't have Snake and they weren't playing as Snake. However, it was a part of the frigging plot itself. Raiden, along with the player, was trying to be Snake. However to succeed you needed to be Raiden and not Snake.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:23 pm
The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
95.887 percent of FF fans will base there fanship off of FF7.
If you don't like FF7, your not an FF fan.
And Gosh Blues, acting all knowingly today, did Cthulhu give you a job at ruling reality today or what?
Despite all your knowledge of things Metal Gear Solid, there are people out there who think MGS1 is better than MGS2. Just like there are people who think Half Life 1 is better than Half Life 2, or that Jak and Daxter is better than Jak 2.
That's why a lot of people remember FF7 so fondly, or Final Fantasy Tactics so fondly. Both had horribly translated scripts. In the case of FF7 the materia system was gimped compared to the previous Esper system, the characters were only defined by their visual appearance and limit breaks, the story itself is weak, the battle system was flawed and easily broken and exploited, amongst other things. The only thing it did that could feasibly separate it from generations past was that it was pseudo-3d and had cut scenes.
The PSP port and retranslation of Final Fantasy Tactics, aside from the game slow downs here and there, proved that the game held up through the ages and is still a good game made better by the revisions it needed. However, the battle system in the original was already solid with a minor exploit in the Calculator/Arithmetic, and Orlandu.
Metal Gear Solid is a solid (pun) set up for MGS2 which, for all intents and purposes, was the Ghost in the Shell to Masamune's Appleseed. Appleseed was good, Ghost in the Shell was better just because it came later and had more thought put into it. The game mechanics were tighter, the cast of characters more fleshed out. The plot, while ambiguous, was still presented in a much greater capacity than the original entry into the Solid half of the Metal Gear franchise.
Everything had a reason, even Raiden's personality.
The game itself was better.
The reason people were frustrated was because they didn't have Snake and they weren't playing as Snake. However, it was a part of the frigging plot itself. Raiden, along with the player, was trying to be Snake. However to succeed you needed to be Raiden and not Snake.
That's a viable reason for people to think MGS1 is better. They didn't want to play as Raiden, they wanted to play as Snake. It doesn't matter if it was an intricate part of the story or Hideo Kojima on Love 69, again, people didn't like it.
Which means to some people, it wasn't better. If it was better, everyone would agree, right? There would be no exceptions, it would be a mono-belief state. EVERYONE would agree with you. They would willingly agree with you too, not just because someone told them so, and threaten them otherwise.
But since not EVERYONE agrees, you still can't provide me with Master given proof that MGS1 is better than MGS2.
Until He Himself tells me it's better, or better yet, tells the whole world it's better, people are still entitled to their opinion. It doesn't make them wrong or right, it doesn't make you right or wrong.
Your not Cthulhu, stop trying to act like Him.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:59 pm
Daxelman
That's a viable reason for people to think MGS1 is better. They didn't want to play as Raiden, they wanted to play as Snake. It doesn't matter if it was an intricate part of the story or Hideo Kojima on Love 69, again, people didn't like it.
Which means to some people, it wasn't better. If it was better, everyone would agree, right? There would be no exceptions, it would be a mono-belief state. EVERYONE would agree with you. They would willingly agree with you too, not just because someone told them so, and threaten them otherwise.
But since not EVERYONE agrees, you still can't provide me with Master given proof that MGS1 is better than MGS2.
Until He Himself tells me it's better, or better yet, tells the whole world it's better, people are still entitled to their opinion. It doesn't make them wrong or right, it doesn't make you right or wrong.
Your not Cthulhu, stop trying to act like Him.
What you're suggesting is that the narrative be completely ignored and the characters given no context thus everything is based off of a superficial faux love of a fictional character that would be nothing with out the context.
Then again not many people even bother to pay attention to stories anymore.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:17 pm
The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
That's a viable reason for people to think MGS1 is better. They didn't want to play as Raiden, they wanted to play as Snake. It doesn't matter if it was an intricate part of the story or Hideo Kojima on Love 69, again, people didn't like it.
Which means to some people, it wasn't better. If it was better, everyone would agree, right? There would be no exceptions, it would be a mono-belief state. EVERYONE would agree with you. They would willingly agree with you too, not just because someone told them so, and threaten them otherwise.
But since not EVERYONE agrees, you still can't provide me with Master given proof that MGS1 is better than MGS2.
Until He Himself tells me it's better, or better yet, tells the whole world it's better, people are still entitled to their opinion. It doesn't make them wrong or right, it doesn't make you right or wrong.
Your not Cthulhu, stop trying to act like Him.
What you're suggesting is that the narrative be completely ignored and the characters given no context thus everything is based off of a superficial faux love of a fictional character that would be nothing with out the context.
Then again not many people even bother to pay attention to stories anymore.
Im not speaking in a technical stand point. Im speaking from a FUN standpoint. Which is the total, absolute point of games, bar none. To have fun.
Im not suggestion Konami do that, Im saying people don't find MGS2 better than 1, and not being able to play as Snake as a main reason. That's a viable reason, you may not like it, you may want to drag people to hell for it, but that's a very viable reason for people not to find MGS2 better.
They want to play as someone that want to play as, not someone they don't. Therefore, it wasn't as fun, and to them, MGS1 is better.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:11 pm
Daxelman
Im not speaking in a technical stand point. Im speaking from a FUN standpoint. Which is the total, absolute point of games, bar none. To have fun.
Im not suggestion Konami do that, Im saying people don't find MGS2 better than 1, and not being able to play as Snake as a main reason. That's a viable reason, you may not like it, you may want to drag people to hell for it, but that's a very viable reason for people not to find MGS2 better.
They want to play as someone that want to play as, not someone they don't. Therefore, it wasn't as fun, and to them, MGS1 is better.
If people weren't so predisposed to hate Raiden or any one not Snake they would have realized that it was a really good game and improved on nearly every gameplay aspect of the original MGS.
Hell, maybe that's why Link and Gordon don't talk though. People would be too pissy about change.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:32 pm
The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
That's a viable reason for people to think MGS1 is better. They didn't want to play as Raiden, they wanted to play as Snake. It doesn't matter if it was an intricate part of the story or Hideo Kojima on Love 69, again, people didn't like it.
Which means to some people, it wasn't better. If it was better, everyone would agree, right? There would be no exceptions, it would be a mono-belief state. EVERYONE would agree with you. They would willingly agree with you too, not just because someone told them so, and threaten them otherwise.
But since not EVERYONE agrees, you still can't provide me with Master given proof that MGS1 is better than MGS2.
Until He Himself tells me it's better, or better yet, tells the whole world it's better, people are still entitled to their opinion. It doesn't make them wrong or right, it doesn't make you right or wrong.
Your not Cthulhu, stop trying to act like Him.
What you're suggesting is that the narrative be completely ignored and the characters given no context thus everything is based off of a superficial faux love of a fictional character that would be nothing with out the context.
Then again not many people even bother to pay attention to stories anymore.Metal Gear fan here. I don't like MGS2 because of Raiden. Blues seriously I hate him, I wanted to play as Snake. Plus come on Oil Rig? It seems that you have no clue what you are talking about. Come on man get with the program. I hate MGS2 with a passion, it was boring, the cut scenes were longer. How the ******** you can it's better when you staring at Raiden's a** for a long time. Look Blues, I respect your opinion but come on Raiden is a joke. The only Raiden I know is from MK. And he is bad a**, and plus a love story. Dude MGS: Twin Snakes is so much better than MGS2 it's not funny. Dude Metal Gear is Snake, it's not about some random character jumping in calling himself Snake. It's bullshit when the main character is not there. It's like when they added Axel to MMX series. BS and Kojima did the right thing on MGS 3: Snake Eater. And what is that? Playing as Snake.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:42 am
The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
Im not speaking in a technical stand point. Im speaking from a FUN standpoint. Which is the total, absolute point of games, bar none. To have fun.
Im not suggestion Konami do that, Im saying people don't find MGS2 better than 1, and not being able to play as Snake as a main reason. That's a viable reason, you may not like it, you may want to drag people to hell for it, but that's a very viable reason for people not to find MGS2 better.
They want to play as someone that want to play as, not someone they don't. Therefore, it wasn't as fun, and to them, MGS1 is better.
If people weren't so predisposed to hate Raiden or any one not Snake they would have realized that it was a really good game and improved on nearly every gameplay aspect of the original MGS.
Hell, maybe that's why Link and Gordon don't talk though. People would be too pissy about change.
Here's another problem: It's a game. It's supposed to be fun.
Was it fun to everyone who played it? No? Then it being better that the first one is the righteous bullshit you'll propose till you die.
Like I said before, until He Himself tells the whole damn world it's better, it's a matter of ******** opinion. It doesn't make the people who say it was worse right or wrong, it doesn't make you wrong or right. It's opinion damnit.
Understand the concept of fun. It's the reason people still play Tetris.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:15 am
Daxelman The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
Im not speaking in a technical stand point. Im speaking from a FUN standpoint. Which is the total, absolute point of games, bar none. To have fun.
Im not suggestion Konami do that, Im saying people don't find MGS2 better than 1, and not being able to play as Snake as a main reason. That's a viable reason, you may not like it, you may want to drag people to hell for it, but that's a very viable reason for people not to find MGS2 better.
They want to play as someone that want to play as, not someone they don't. Therefore, it wasn't as fun, and to them, MGS1 is better.
If people weren't so predisposed to hate Raiden or any one not Snake they would have realized that it was a really good game and improved on nearly every gameplay aspect of the original MGS.
Hell, maybe that's why Link and Gordon don't talk though. People would be too pissy about change.
Here's another problem: It's a game. It's supposed to be fun.
Was it fun to everyone who played it? No? Then it being better that the first one is the righteous bullshit you'll propose till you die.
Like I said before, until He Himself tells the whole damn world it's better, it's a matter of ******** opinion. It doesn't make the people who say it was worse right or wrong, it doesn't make you wrong or right. It's opinion damnit.
Understand the concept of fun. It's the reason people still play Tetris.
It's all preference and opinion. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:28 am
HistoryWak Daxelman The Death Blues Mix Daxelman
Im not speaking in a technical stand point. Im speaking from a FUN standpoint. Which is the total, absolute point of games, bar none. To have fun.
Im not suggestion Konami do that, Im saying people don't find MGS2 better than 1, and not being able to play as Snake as a main reason. That's a viable reason, you may not like it, you may want to drag people to hell for it, but that's a very viable reason for people not to find MGS2 better.
They want to play as someone that want to play as, not someone they don't. Therefore, it wasn't as fun, and to them, MGS1 is better.
If people weren't so predisposed to hate Raiden or any one not Snake they would have realized that it was a really good game and improved on nearly every gameplay aspect of the original MGS.
Hell, maybe that's why Link and Gordon don't talk though. People would be too pissy about change.
Here's another problem: It's a game. It's supposed to be fun.
Was it fun to everyone who played it? No? Then it being better that the first one is the righteous bullshit you'll propose till you die.
Like I said before, until He Himself tells the whole damn world it's better, it's a matter of ******** opinion. It doesn't make the people who say it was worse right or wrong, it doesn't make you wrong or right. It's opinion damnit.
Understand the concept of fun. It's the reason people still play Tetris.
It's all preference and opinion. 3nodding It really is. Some people are purists and find ways to love every installment of a series. Others feel that some installments will always be the "black sheep". EX: I think every Final Fantasy before FFV is boring and horrible. Others love all of them. And for the record, I fell in love with the Final Fantasy name back with VI on the SNES, and I still think VII is a great game.
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