premarital "sex"... can we do it?

[IcarusDream]

Son of Beren

You make an informed analysis, but as followers of Christ, we must look at everything with LOVE foremost.

An ideal situation, but many Christians these days seem much less attracted by a love of mercy than by a hate of licentiousness.

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Logic and reason can only guide humans so far before it falls short of the spiritual growth that we are seeking.

Is that the extent of the reasoning that we can make? Reason that we can't reason about it?

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As others have said here, what's the reason for having any type of "intimate" contact? Love or lust? Love is patient, love is selfless.

It should be damned easy to tell when you're doing it. Am I running into this, flinging my clothes off or am I looking into her eyes, thinking about every step, as every emotion of affection fills my mind, methodically and practically moving about the task, not diving in, but carefully giving attention to everything that I can do to show my love for her?  

[kitsunegami]

Son of Beren

what's the reason for having any type of "intimate" contact? Love or lust?

I think you hit the key right there. I've always believed that sexual activity should only be done with the love of your life.

Far too many of my friends lives were left in ruins because they had sex too soon. Unwanted babies, STDs, and AIDs await those who insist on having sex unwisely.

I married my first love and she married hers. Neither of us has ever had any kind of sexual contact with anyone else. That means we are sure that neither of has picked up an STD from anywhere. That kind of peace of mind can only come from abstinence.

We have wandered far off topic. The question wasn't about intercourse. The question was: "How far is too far?"

--

Sorry. I know this post is a bit disjointed but my standing pain levels are a bit elevated after a doctor's visit today so my mind's a little foggy.  

[Son of Beren]

Icarus Dream-What is your stance regarding premarital sex (oral or otherwise)? I only get a partial picture from you criticisms. For Christians, the most important thing to do is to help people, not belittle them. Their is a HUGE difference between the letter of the "law" and the spirit of it. As I said earlier, quoting Ephesians, Love is patient. If one can't wait to have sex (and I know self-control is definitely not easy) then you are doing it for the wrong reason. I know Paul says that burning with lust is a reason for getting married. But I really don't think Jesus would have said the same. After all, Paul prefaced his statement by saying that this was his interpretation, not divine command. Sex is a serious issue. And so therefore is marriage. Neither should be entered into lightly. The problems that arise from human emotions regarding these, i.e. jealousy, envy, insecurity, fear of loss, all of these should be enough to warn us to tread very carefully, even without God's word.

kitsunegami-You bring up some more good reasons why sex should be taken very seriously. I have had a bad experience that would have been avoided had I been taught even some of the complexities of sex-premarital or marital.  

[IcarusDream]

Son of Beren

Icarus Dream-What is your stance regarding premarital sex (oral or otherwise)?

Whether or not it is sinful is absolutely subjective.

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For Christians, the most important thing to do is to help people, not belittle them.

There are things that are irrelevant, and where "helping" just might be the worst idea ever. Such as homosexuality.

Help people with what they need and what you can give them not what you think they need or what you want to give them.

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Their is a HUGE difference between the letter of the "law" and the spirit of it.

There is the letter, and the spirit is often ambiguous.

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As I said earlier, quoting Ephesians, Love is patient.

I thought you might've been quoting 1 Cor 13, but ah well.

It really all sounds like philosophical mumbojumbo, though, and wishful thinking by Paul. Ever read The Symposium? That gives you quite a different thought about love (and is quite a bit more rational too).

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If one can't wait to have sex (and I know self-control is definitely not easy) then you are doing it for the wrong reason.

The problem with your "Love is patient" doctrine is that this is not the love classified in Greek as "eros," which is the type of love you are trying to apply it too.

Agapao (agape) is not a passionate love, it is more of a charity love. Jesus loved children in this way (unless he was a *****). He gave them his blessings. Agape is intrinsically unselfish, one could say, and it is not truly agape if one goes around giving as much as one can for the sake of being seen as one who does that. That would be a selfish "love."

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Sex is a serious issue. And so therefore is marriage.

It is a subjective interpretation to intertwine the two so deeply as is tried, however. The problem is that it's church doctrine, so many people do it.

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Neither should be entered into lightly.

I agree, for different reasons.

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The problems that arise from human emotions regarding these, i.e. jealousy, envy, insecurity, fear of loss, all of these should be enough to warn us to tread very carefully, even without God's word.

Half of my different reasons...  

[Son of Beren]

I think you might be in the wrong guild. It's behavior such as yours that makes churches so useless. And because you are allowed to treat others as you do, I definitely know this is the wrong guild for me. So I quit.

 

[SinfulGuillotine]

etchedspirit

HELLO!!! Oral sex IS sex, that's why it has the word SEX in it......yes, I do think it's wrong and it's disgusting. Why the heck would you even want to put your mouth anywhere near the other person's private areas anyway??? NASTY!!! ewwww.....gross.

You wouldn't put your mouth on a p***s, but you'd allow a p***s inside your v****a? Am I the only one who finds that logic a bit...odd? Personally, if something's too gross to put my mouth on, I wouldn't want my genitals anywhere near it.

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You do not need to "practice" any kind of sex. You'll be perfectly fine when you get married. It's already programed into our DNA to know how to do it so there is no need to worry. Abstinence is the best way to go.

Actually, yes, good sex does take practise. The odds that you will have amazing sex the first time you try it are slim to none. That doesn't mean that you should go out and be carelessly promiscuous just to "get practise," and you can just as easily practise with someone to whom you are married, but good sex does not come on instinct alone. It takes practise and experience to be a good lover.

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Sex creates a bond with both souls whether you want it to or not, God made it that way, and when you do stuff like that it tears away at your soul and pretty soon you'll have nothing left to offer, then what's left of you? It's like a crappy hand-me-down, pretty soon no one will want it because it's so old, out of style and a bunch of ppl have already used it

Having sex is not like a Faustian deal. You do not give any piece of yourself to someone through sex alone. There is infinitely more to a person than how many people they have or haven't shagged. To not realise that is shallow and flat-out childish. If someone wouldn't want to be with me soley based on my sexual history before they were even a part of my life, then they're not worth my time. Period.  

[The Noble Protoman.exe]

... This thread has gotten silly. I had something serious to say, but I can't deal with the silliness.  

[Dcaff]

Son of Beren

I think you might be in the wrong guild. It's behavior such as yours that makes churches so useless. And because you are allowed to treat others as you do, I definitely know this is the wrong guild for me. So I quit.

No worries man, this thread is being watched. ninja  

[IcarusDream]

Son of Beren

I think you might be in the wrong guild. It's behavior such as yours that makes churches so useless. And because you are allowed to treat others as you do, I definitely know this is the wrong guild for me. So I quit.

To whom are you speaking?

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... This thread has gotten silly. I had something serious to say, but I can't deal with the silliness.

Well, bye then.  

[Mjolnir The Hammer]

IcarusDream

Son of Beren

I think you might be in the wrong guild. It's behavior such as yours that makes churches so useless. And because you are allowed to treat others as you do, I definitely know this is the wrong guild for me. So I quit.

To whom are you speaking?

He's speaking to you. Who replied to him? Therefore, who's annoying him? You.....yes, just as I suspected. stare  

[IcarusDream]

maplestoryjunky

IcarusDream

Son of Beren

I think you might be in the wrong guild. It's behavior such as yours that makes churches so useless. And because you are allowed to treat others as you do, I definitely know this is the wrong guild for me. So I quit.

To whom are you speaking?

He's speaking to you. Who replied to him? Therefore, who's annoying him? You.....yes, just as I suspected. stare

His response is inappropriate to his own message, if that were the case.  

[Cielcakes]

Well, everyone tells me it is a sin....but, being a premarital baby myself, I don't really know how to answer this question.  

[Dark Chaotic Nightmare]

Vendition

So, i was wondering if me and my female friend (both Christians) could have have sexual... practice. Such as oral sex, and ect. But would it be considered a sin, sense we are not married. it isn't "sex" but is it a sin?

In my opinion, having "oral" sex has the to be the most discusting, vile thing I've heard of since I learned in 7th grade history that some cultures use urine to clean clothes. WHY ON EARTH would you want somebody's well, "private" parts (to keep this conversation clean) in your mouth? I thing it's outragous and and would never do such a thing.

etchedspirit

HELLO!!! Oral sex IS sex, that's why it has the word SEX in it......yes, I do think it's wrong and it's disgusting. Why the heck would you even want to put your mouth anywhere near the other person's private areas anyway??? NASTY!!! ewwww.....gross.

Agrreed 100%

Rants aside, as we all know, God made sex. It's His invention. And it's very hard for somebody to control their hormones enough to not do ANYTHING of a sexual act until they become married. And God knows that. That's why He created something so that someone can have "release" of their hormones WITHOUT having sex. It's called masturbation. It's not having sex, so therefor you wouldn't be sinning against God. And it can also be done with a partner, which ywould be aof course call mutual masturbation. I would recommend this heckuva lot more over oral sex.

Good luck!  

[trinity343]

MISTYFAN4EVER8887

Vendition

So, i was wondering if me and my female friend (both Christians) could have have sexual... practice. Such as oral sex, and ect. But would it be considered a sin, sense we are not married. it isn't "sex" but is it a sin?

In my opinion, having "oral" sex has the to be the most disgusting, vile thing I've heard of since I learned in 7th grade history that some cultures use urine to clean clothes. WHY ON EARTH would you want somebody's well, "private" parts (to keep this conversation clean) in your mouth? I thing it's outrageous and and would never do such a thing.

Rants aside, as we all know, God made sex. It's His invention. And it's very hard for somebody to control their hormones enough to not do ANYTHING of a sexual act until they become married. And God knows that. That's why He created something so that someone can have "release" of their hormones WITHOUT having sex. It's called masturbation. It's not having sex, so therefor you wouldn't be sinning against God. And it can also be done with a partner, which would be of course call mutual masturbation. I would recommend this heckuva lot more over oral sex.

Good luck!

see i personally see that as still be a sin b/c it's still fulfilling a selfish desire dealing with lust, it is practically impossible to not have some sort of fantasy going through your head while masturbating. and b/c of the fantasy it is still being a lustful act within one's own heart. also doing this with a partner is still on the same level as oral and such b/c it to is to gratify a sexual desire (lust) [which is selfish), going back to what Jesus said, "i tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (mat 5:2 cool

and also what Paul has written, "but among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity or of greed, b/c these are improper for God's holy people." (eph 5:3)

as well in 1 Cor 6:12-13

" 'Everything is permissible for me'-but not everything is beneficial. 'everything is permissible for me'-but i will not be mastered by anything. 'Food is for the stomach and the stomach for the food'-but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."

and 1 cor 6:18-20

"Flee from sexual immorality. all other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you no know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have recieved from God? you are not your own; you were bought at a price, therefore honor God with you body."

they seem to make their points quite clear...we are to stay away from sexual immorality...not even having a hint of it among us. that is one problem with the ppl of the church today, they think that they can do pretty much anything they want to as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else not know that even those acts still hurt our community as the body of Christ and our relationship with God. they are acting selfishly and being such as children who cannot control themselves and are egocentric in nature. but God wants us to move beyond that level of thinking and start thinking of the community of believers around us and how our actions, private and public, affect us all. we've allowed ourselves to be trapped in the culture around us, which is dreadfully full of sin. becoming so immersed within it that we cannot understand what God wants for us. we need to raise our standards to that which the Bible (God's word, and our final authority) have commanded us to live. paul wrote for us not to allow our freedom in Christ to become an excuse for us to sin as we please (Galatians 5:13)

having sex outside of marriage is not a show of love to that person, b/c love on seeks to please others, not themselves. and one can only 100% do that in a marriage relationship, we were created by God to become on in flesh and spirit, which is what sex was created for. Marriage is a representation of what our relationship with God should be, each trying to please the other, wholly and not with multiple partners b/c God created us to be with only one person to live our our lives with only them. just as we are to live out our lives with Him.  

[Y i J u]

This is stupid.

The harm done from premarital sex is obvious.
So get off your high horses and just read your bible.

Seriously guys. -.-