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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:17 am
purttyinpink Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori Well, would it be done as a literary exercise, or to get you off? doesnt matter Sure it does! For example, I have Asperger's Syndrome. For some people, Asperger's Syndrome results in, among other things, an inability to learn by intuition. In other words, we have to have sex explained to us step-by-step. Yes, that does mean "1. Get undressed. 2. Begin foreplay: see diagram 1f and full instructions on page 34." The primary purpose of this discussion of sex is to teach, not to get someone off. The key issue behind what is wrong with cybering is lust. If we say that cybering is wrong, pointblank, we oversimplify the problem. Once lust is removed from cybering, there's no longer a sin behind it. (This is Shiroi Kokoro no Mendori)
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:48 am
lordstar Michan Starfire lordstar sunshinehearttrob Duroonsia But I can't keep my heart and mind pure and holy. It's hard. I mean, first off, the school I go to has got people who are like that a lot. I hear a lot of stuff like that, and I am so used to it. It makes it easier for me to think of stuff like that. Not calling anyone bad or anything, but it's hard. And poeple curse all the time. I mean, it is hard. theres no such thing as "cant". cant means your NOT willing to try, and i dont think thats you somehow. a lot of other people may curse and do stuff like that. but your a Christian and you should step up your game. it may be hard, but it could also be overcome. if your friends cuss, tell them to cut it out around you or something. if your willing to give it a try, then your friends will see this and hopefully respect it too. dont be tempted !! wow i was just going to lecture Michan Starfire on not being willing to try can't is the minds responce to something a person has deemed to not be in their interest so if a person is not willing cope with choice than its not really a choice can't meens doing so is just not worth the trouble you didn't even try to do what your partner asked if you had attempted we would be having a different conversation
That's not just cruel and disrespectful of that person's feelings, it's failing to fulfill one of Christ's most important commandments "Love one Another as I first Loved You". No one should have to do things that feel wrong to them to please a partner.
Truly loving someone means respecting their feelings, and forcing someone to do something that hurts them emotionally is not a loving, or even a healthy thing to do.
Not only that, but in a relationship between a Christian man and woman, the focus needs to be not on sex, but on treating one another with love and compassion, and nurturing one another's faith in God. Violating a partner's feelings by pressuring them sexually is not respecting them as a person. It's treating them as a sexual object rather than a beloved Creaton of our Lord.
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:26 am
Michan Starfire lordstar Michan Starfire lordstar sunshinehearttrob Duroonsia But I can't keep my heart and mind pure and holy. It's hard. I mean, first off, the school I go to has got people who are like that a lot. I hear a lot of stuff like that, and I am so used to it. It makes it easier for me to think of stuff like that. Not calling anyone bad or anything, but it's hard. And poeple curse all the time. I mean, it is hard. theres no such thing as "cant". cant means your NOT willing to try, and i dont think thats you somehow. a lot of other people may curse and do stuff like that. but your a Christian and you should step up your game. it may be hard, but it could also be overcome. if your friends cuss, tell them to cut it out around you or something. if your willing to give it a try, then your friends will see this and hopefully respect it too. dont be tempted !! wow i was just going to lecture Michan Starfire on not being willing to try can't is the minds responce to something a person has deemed to not be in their interest so if a person is not willing cope with choice than its not really a choice can't meens doing so is just not worth the trouble you didn't even try to do what your partner asked if you had attempted we would be having a different conversation
That's not just cruel and disrespectful of that person's feelings, it's failing to fulfill one of Christ's most important commandments "Love one Another as I first Loved You". No one should have to do things that feel wrong to them to please a partner.
Truly loving someone means respecting their feelings, and forcing someone to do something that hurts them emotionally is not a loving, or even a healthy thing to do.
Not only that, but in a relationship between a Christian man and woman, the focus needs to be not on sex, but on treating one another with love and compassion, and nurturing one another's faith in God. Violating a partner's feelings by pressuring them sexually is not respecting them as a person. It's treating them as a sexual object rather than a beloved Creaton of our Lord.Juuuust for the sake of debate: Did Christ tell us never to give in to the wishes of our partner? Did Christ tell us that when partners disagree, they must be as ends of a staff, never touching until they break?
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:53 am
stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire lordstar Michan Starfire lordstar wow i was just going to lecture Michan Starfire on not being willing to try can't is the minds responce to something a person has deemed to not be in their interest so if a person is not willing cope with choice than its not really a choice can't meens doing so is just not worth the trouble you didn't even try to do what your partner asked if you had attempted we would be having a different conversation
That's not just cruel and disrespectful of that person's feelings, it's failing to fulfill one of Christ's most important commandments "Love one Another as I first Loved You". No one should have to do things that feel wrong to them to please a partner.
Truly loving someone means respecting their feelings, and forcing someone to do something that hurts them emotionally is not a loving, or even a healthy thing to do.
Not only that, but in a relationship between a Christian man and woman, the focus needs to be not on sex, but on treating one another with love and compassion, and nurturing one another's faith in God. Violating a partner's feelings by pressuring them sexually is not respecting them as a person. It's treating them as a sexual object rather than a beloved Creaton of our Lord.Juuuust for the sake of debate: Did Christ tell us never to give in to the wishes of our partner? Did Christ tell us that when partners disagree, they must be as ends of a staff, never touching until they break?
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:19 pm
Michan Starfire stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire lordstar Michan Starfire lordstar wow i was just going to lecture Michan Starfire on not being willing to try can't is the minds responce to something a person has deemed to not be in their interest so if a person is not willing cope with choice than its not really a choice can't meens doing so is just not worth the trouble you didn't even try to do what your partner asked if you had attempted we would be having a different conversation
That's not just cruel and disrespectful of that person's feelings, it's failing to fulfill one of Christ's most important commandments "Love one Another as I first Loved You". No one should have to do things that feel wrong to them to please a partner.
Truly loving someone means respecting their feelings, and forcing someone to do something that hurts them emotionally is not a loving, or even a healthy thing to do.
Not only that, but in a relationship between a Christian man and woman, the focus needs to be not on sex, but on treating one another with love and compassion, and nurturing one another's faith in God. Violating a partner's feelings by pressuring them sexually is not respecting them as a person. It's treating them as a sexual object rather than a beloved Creaton of our Lord.Juuuust for the sake of debate: Did Christ tell us never to give in to the wishes of our partner? Did Christ tell us that when partners disagree, they must be as ends of a staff, never touching until they break?
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
C.S. Lewis said that the key to a healthy marriage was a little bit of selfishness. If we actually tell our partners what we want, instead of sticking to what we know they want, our marriages can go MUCH farther. That goes for everything in life, not just sex. If I tell my partner I want him to cook dinner for me when I've had a horrible day at work, that's going to pull us much closer. If my partner wants me to help him watch the kids on Thursdays, that's another way I can show love to him. If my partner or I want to try something new in bed, we can always do that; it's one more way of submitting to each other. I'm curious, why wouldn't you want to try cybering, within marriage?
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:58 pm
stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire Oh, no, I'm not saying that at all. If the wish of my partner was to go to a movie I wasn't thrilled about or try out a weird new sport (like underwater ballet), I might be willing to come to a compromise. Healthy relationships between human beings involve compromise, and I'm certain that sometimes people need to come to an understanding to where BOTH partners (NOT JUST ONE) feel loved and fulfilled.
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
C.S. Lewis said that the key to a healthy marriage was a little bit of selfishness. If we actually tell our partners what we want, instead of sticking to what we know they want, our marriages can go MUCH farther. That goes for everything in life, not just sex. (...) It seems that you are agreeing that compromise is needed in a healthy marriage, but the real question is at what point is it selfish for denying or selfish for pushing? The answer to that really varies depending on the couple. Not that the activities suggested are immoral, but there could be many reasons why it is inappropriate for that couple to participate. For example, let's say a woman was sexually abused growing up, there maybe certain things that bring back painful memories. if you were her husband, would you want to push her to do something that brings her much emotional pain? It may not always be that extreme, but sometimes there are reasons for being uncomfortable with certain activities. Sometimes it is just a comfort/personal conviction issue that may change over time, or sometimes it is something more serious that should not be pushed.
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:26 pm
Seraph68 stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire Oh, no, I'm not saying that at all. If the wish of my partner was to go to a movie I wasn't thrilled about or try out a weird new sport (like underwater ballet), I might be willing to come to a compromise. Healthy relationships between human beings involve compromise, and I'm certain that sometimes people need to come to an understanding to where BOTH partners (NOT JUST ONE) feel loved and fulfilled.
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
C.S. Lewis said that the key to a healthy marriage was a little bit of selfishness. If we actually tell our partners what we want, instead of sticking to what we know they want, our marriages can go MUCH farther. That goes for everything in life, not just sex. (...) It seems that you are agreeing that compromise is needed in a healthy marriage, but the real question is at what point is it selfish for denying or selfish for pushing? The answer to that really varies depending on the couple. Not that the activities suggested are immoral, but there could be many reasons why it is inappropriate for that couple to participate. For example, let's say a woman was sexually abused growing up, there maybe certain things that bring back painful memories. if you were her husband, would you want to push her to do something that brings her much emotional pain? It may not always be that extreme, but sometimes there are reasons for being uncomfortable with certain activities. Sometimes it is just a comfort/personal conviction issue that may change over time, or sometimes it is something more serious that should not be pushed.
@ Stopthebanningplease:
That's a very good question. The answer is that even if I were married to the person involved, it would bring back too many painful memories of the things my ex-boyfriend tried to force on me. I would probably feel differently if that had not happend, especially within the confines of a marriage.
But the very mention of it now makes me feel sick and upset.
I doubt that a husband who really loved me would force me to do something that cause me that much distress. I, in turn, would never force him to do something that would cause him emotional pain.
If it became an issue, couple's therapy would probably be a good idea, but even a professional would probably agree it wasn't necessary to force me (or anyone else, for that matter) to perform an act that had pain associated with it.
That's not to say I don't want to someday have a healthy love life with my future husband, or that I might not bend a bit or try something new in bed for his sake. You are right in the sense that compromise is very important in all aspects in a marriage, and both partners should think about each other's needs and wishes.
However, if the experience brings physical, mental, or emotional pain and/or distress, or makes the other person seriously uncomfortable, it probably isn't right to push them to do perform it.
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:23 pm
I admit that I have a problem with cybering as well, not that I have actually done it . . . I would never go so far. I prefer to retain from anything sexual until I get married, that way, I can remain pure for my future husband. Of course, he has to respect me the same way, he has to remain pure as well, in both thoughts and deeds. Otherwise, I just won't respect him, and what good is a husband who cannot be respected by his wife and vice versa?
However, when I go on internet chat rooms, I do get invitations for cybering, but I always turn them down. However, I get a kick out of getting these invites, because they increase my self-esteem, at least they somewhat 'think' I'm interesting because of what I say. I know I should stop this, but it is rather addictive. On a bright side, I haven't been to internet chat rooms for two days already, and I'm still trying to cut down.
The things is, this reminds me of the same Bible verse that keeps going around in situations like these. According to Matthew 5:28, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." This verse shows that it's the thought that counts, and cyber sex is actually thinking of having sex with another person, which is why the Bible also condones this kind of thing.
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:24 am
Michan Starfire Seraph68 stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire Oh, no, I'm not saying that at all. If the wish of my partner was to go to a movie I wasn't thrilled about or try out a weird new sport (like underwater ballet), I might be willing to come to a compromise. Healthy relationships between human beings involve compromise, and I'm certain that sometimes people need to come to an understanding to where BOTH partners (NOT JUST ONE) feel loved and fulfilled.
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
C.S. Lewis said that the key to a healthy marriage was a little bit of selfishness. If we actually tell our partners what we want, instead of sticking to what we know they want, our marriages can go MUCH farther. That goes for everything in life, not just sex. (...) It seems that you are agreeing that compromise is needed in a healthy marriage, but the real question is at what point is it selfish for denying or selfish for pushing? The answer to that really varies depending on the couple. Not that the activities suggested are immoral, but there could be many reasons why it is inappropriate for that couple to participate. For example, let's say a woman was sexually abused growing up, there maybe certain things that bring back painful memories. if you were her husband, would you want to push her to do something that brings her much emotional pain? It may not always be that extreme, but sometimes there are reasons for being uncomfortable with certain activities. Sometimes it is just a comfort/personal conviction issue that may change over time, or sometimes it is something more serious that should not be pushed.
@ Stopthebanningplease:
That's a very good question. The answer is that even if I were married to the person involved, it would bring back too many painful memories of the things my ex-boyfriend tried to force on me. I would probably feel differently if that had not happend, especially within the confines of a marriage.
But the very mention of it now makes me feel sick and upset.
I doubt that a husband who really loved me would force me to do something that cause me that much distress. I, in turn, would never force him to do something that would cause him emotional pain.
If it became an issue, couple's therapy would probably be a good idea, but even a professional would probably agree it wasn't necessary to force me (or anyone else, for that matter) to perform an act that had pain associated with it.
That's not to say I don't want to someday have a healthy love life with my future husband, or that I might not bend a bit or try something new in bed for his sake. You are right in the sense that compromise is very important in all aspects in a marriage, and both partners should think about each other's needs and wishes.
However, if the experience brings physical, mental, or emotional pain and/or distress, or makes the other person seriously uncomfortable, it probably isn't right to push them to do perform it.If I remember correctly there was never any force involved and I wouldn't think asking (perhaps many times) would be forcing My concern was with your brick wall "NO" He needs to know why, for an answer devoid of its full context is rather useless you don't have to carry those painful memories around with you share them with your partner My point was that you didn't even try give it a try stop if you need to try to resolve the issues then try it again may take a long time to get by your mental blockade but it can be done maybe then you wont be so haunted by your memories
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:34 am
lordstar Michan Starfire Seraph68 stopthebanningplease Michan Starfire Oh, no, I'm not saying that at all. If the wish of my partner was to go to a movie I wasn't thrilled about or try out a weird new sport (like underwater ballet), I might be willing to come to a compromise. Healthy relationships between human beings involve compromise, and I'm certain that sometimes people need to come to an understanding to where BOTH partners (NOT JUST ONE) feel loved and fulfilled.
That being said, I am sure Christ NEVER intended for someone to be forced to perform sexual acts of any kind AGAINST THEIR WILL. And if a person is truly understanding and loving, they won't force their loved one to do what feels wrong or uncomfortable.
After all, Isn't it kind of cruel to force your partner to perform sexual acts that make them feel guilty and uncomfortable? Ask yourself: Is forcing someone to do what feels wrong the loving thing to do? Or is it being selfish and only focusing on fulfilling your own sexual desires?
C.S. Lewis said that the key to a healthy marriage was a little bit of selfishness. If we actually tell our partners what we want, instead of sticking to what we know they want, our marriages can go MUCH farther. That goes for everything in life, not just sex. (...) It seems that you are agreeing that compromise is needed in a healthy marriage, but the real question is at what point is it selfish for denying or selfish for pushing? The answer to that really varies depending on the couple. Not that the activities suggested are immoral, but there could be many reasons why it is inappropriate for that couple to participate. For example, let's say a woman was sexually abused growing up, there maybe certain things that bring back painful memories. if you were her husband, would you want to push her to do something that brings her much emotional pain? It may not always be that extreme, but sometimes there are reasons for being uncomfortable with certain activities. Sometimes it is just a comfort/personal conviction issue that may change over time, or sometimes it is something more serious that should not be pushed.
@ Stopthebanningplease:
That's a very good question. The answer is that even if I were married to the person involved, it would bring back too many painful memories of the things my ex-boyfriend tried to force on me. I would probably feel differently if that had not happend, especially within the confines of a marriage.
But the very mention of it now makes me feel sick and upset.
I doubt that a husband who really loved me would force me to do something that cause me that much distress. I, in turn, would never force him to do something that would cause him emotional pain.
If it became an issue, couple's therapy would probably be a good idea, but even a professional would probably agree it wasn't necessary to force me (or anyone else, for that matter) to perform an act that had pain associated with it.
That's not to say I don't want to someday have a healthy love life with my future husband, or that I might not bend a bit or try something new in bed for his sake. You are right in the sense that compromise is very important in all aspects in a marriage, and both partners should think about each other's needs and wishes.
However, if the experience brings physical, mental, or emotional pain and/or distress, or makes the other person seriously uncomfortable, it probably isn't right to push them to do perform it.If I remember correctly there was never any force involved and I wouldn't think asking (perhaps many times) would be forcing My concern was with your brick wall "NO" He needs to know why, for an answer devoid of its full context is rather useless you don't have to carry those painful memories around with you share them with your partner My point was that you didn't even try give it a try stop if you need to try to resolve the issues then try it again may take a long time to get by your mental blockade but it can be done maybe then you wont be so haunted by your memories
To answer one of your Lordstar, as I mentioned before I did give it a try. Afterwards, I felt guilty and sick on the inside. The only person who got any satisfaction out of it was him. The truth is, I felt in my heart that it wasn't what Christ wanted me to do. My purity had been compromised, even if it wasn't physically intercourse.
It wasn't as bad as if I had actually slept with him, but he wasn't my husband, and what I had really wanted was to save my sexuality for the man I would marry in the name of Jesus.
And you're right in the sense that he didn't force me to do it...after, all, you can't force someone to cyber, (unless, for some odd reason, some very weird person decided to hold a gun to someone's head or something, but that's pretty darn unlikely....).
You are also right in the sense that I should have told him why I felt that way sooner. I did tell him, but only towards the end of our relationship. Next time I will try to be more honest with my partner about my fears and insecurities.
Cybering didn't become a "brick wall NO" until after all that happend. The truth is, it has more to do with the fact that the guy involved wasn't married to me than anything else.
And perhaps when I'm married, things may change. I've made a personal decision not to engage in any sort of sexual behavior, whether that be online or otherwise, until I am married to the man God has chosen for me.
I think this topic is beginning to focus waaaaaaaaaaay too much on me personally, rather than the actual issue of the morality of Cybering itelf, so I'm going to leave this thread so you folks can get back on the topic. Plus, I doubt I really have anything more to contribute anyway.
It's been nice debating with you fellows. You all seem like very intelligent and well informed folks, even if we don't necessarily agree. ^^
May the Lord Bless and Keep You,
~Michan heart
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