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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:51 am
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Honestly, I didn't read all of it.
There was too much to read, actually, and I'm babysitting at the moment while checking my gaia.
The child is on my lap right now, so sorry for typo's. lol
Ok, to business. I believe in God. He's my friend, my Savior, and my Father.
I may only be 16 but I understand that those 'commandments' will get you nowhere in life, love, and friendship.
I can say this with certainty because *I* followed them and my life turned into a living hell.
Plus, some of those 'rules' sound like you're an animal.
Mating? Treating people cruelly? Destroy? Lair?
To me that doesn't sound like a good way to live. Never harm a small child, but what if the small child is acting bad in your "lair"? What do you do exactly?
Not condemning, I know I probably sound like it, but these are honest questions.
Can you just see my side for a second?
You basically said the Being I love most is a liar, not real, and 'forcing' me to be happy.
That kinda upsets me a little but oh well.
Hey, if I didn't believe in God, I would actually very much be like you. Probably.
lol
I dunno, seeing as how I've never met you.
There are so many people pleasing Christians around here that are too afraid to stand up and say "Yes, I believe in God and I believe your way is wrong but I'll still love you anyway. And Jesus loves you more than anyone else ever will."
The only reason I'm replying here is because I just want you to know how I felt.
No, I am not someone that goes around condemning people. And no, I'm not asking you to change your way of living because I said all this.
But I'm just letting you know how I feel about it.
I'll pray for you...
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:40 am
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Y i J u Honestly, I didn't read all of it. There was too much to read, actually, and I'm babysitting at the moment while checking my gaia. The child is on my lap right now, so sorry for typo's. lol
The problem with that is that you don't get a complete picture of things. Sometimes that isn't a bad thing, but it can lead to an incomplete view of things which may create misinformation and false understanding.
Y i J u Ok, to business. I believe in God. He's my friend, my Savior, and my Father.
Good for you, there seem to be a lot of people like you around, hehe. Nothing wrong with that.
Y i J u I may only be 16 but I understand that those 'commandments' will get you nowhere in life, love, and friendship. I can say this with certainty because *I* followed them and my life turned into a living hell.
Really? I'd be very interested in hearing about your experiences, then, because in a lot of ways, they're common sense things and share a lot with your set of 'commandments' as well as the golden rule. Additionally as I've pointed out, those are more "guidelines to aspire to" rather than rules. Nobody's perfect, but everybody should try to be.
Y i J u Plus, some of those 'rules' sound like you're an animal. Mating? Treating people cruelly? Destroy? Lair?
I will admit the language used is a little more... archaic... than had I written them myself, but the meaning is the same. It isn't like your commandments don't use similarly archaic terms though. Especially in the original Hebrew translation to English, before modern language was taken into convention. Even today, "covet" persists. I remember learning them as "Thou shalt not" rather than "You shall not" which seems to be more popular these days. So rather than looking at how it's said, I choose to look at what its said. I mean, I don't make fun of the British for calling it a 'loo, or spelling it "colour", so why would I care if my home is referred to as a "lair" instead of a "demesnes" or "residence", etc?
Also, in reality aren't human beings little more than animals? I stumbled across this poem a while ago (was a Poem of the Day on a poetry site I lurk around) that I'd like you to read. Blame It's author makes some good points, I feel, and really shows that human beings can be capable of such wonderful love and kindness, but most of the time get lost in their own selfishness and greed. Lack of understanding, lack of compassion for those they don't know or understand, etc. I'd love your thoughts on it, too, as you say you've been where I am.
Y i J u To me that doesn't sound like a good way to live. Never harm a small child, but what if the small child is acting bad in your "lair"? What do you do exactly?
You can treat somebody cruelly with out harming them. And disciplining a child is not harming them (depending of course on the punishment) according to those rules. On the contrary, *not* disciplining a child who needs it is something I'd consider wrong, as that *will* hurt them long term. And, if it isn't my child to discipline and they're in my "lair", I ask their parents to control their child or ask their parents to leave.
Y i J u Not condemning, I know I probably sound like it, but these are honest questions.
No, it's cool. I hope I've provided honest answers for you, as well.
Y i J u Can you just see my side for a second? You basically said the Being I love most is a liar, not real, and 'forcing' me to be happy. That kinda upsets me a little but oh well. Hey, if I didn't believe in God, I would actually very much be like you. Probably. lol I dunno, seeing as how I've never met you.
That's a handful right there. Yes, I can see your side for a second, but I don't agree with the position. I admit I think the Christian idea of a god and the afterlife is hypocritical, yes. That's not the same as calling your god a liar. I won't argue that I don't believe he is real, though, any more than I believe Zeus or Jupiter or Odin are real. Going under the assumption that your god IS real, however, and that everything about Christianity is true, I would still hate to be a member. The reason for that is because of the hypocrisy I mentioned earlier. If heaven is a place where everybody's happy, as I've been taught for so long, that sounds very much like it's forced happiness. I'm not a happy person, nor do I want to be. I enjoy my logical, analytical mind. I enjoy not being so bubbly and sickeningly sweet all the time, because people who are like that irritate me. I find them very unrealistic, and not "down to earth" so to speak. So, if I prefer being the way I am (in attitude and mentality) but I go to heaven, then one of two things has to happen. 1) I'm going to be constantly irritated by all the happy, sickeningly sweet people up there (since everybody's happy all the time, right?), and thus I won't be happy - I'd be quite miserable (which I've been told is an impossibility since it's heaven, nobody's miserable in heaven), or 2) I'd be "altered" some way so that I, too, am just as happy, bubbly, and sickeningly sweet as everybody else. If this isn't "forced happiness" then I dunno what is. Nowhere in your afterlife does it offer me the chance to obtain what *I* want for myself when I die - cessation of existence. Nowhere does it say I can simply *poof* and fade to blah. So I'm forced, by your religious beliefs anyway, to one of the following 3 scenarios:
1) Go to heaven, be "altered" so I'm forced to be happy for eternity.
2) Go to heaven, remain who I am, suffer for eternity.
3) Go to hell, suffer for eternity.
From my point of view, the only option I have is to be forced to change who I am (something I liken to forcing me to lie), or, to suffer for eternity by whatever tortures exist in hell, or by being constantly around people who would irk me till the cows come home.
Y i J u There are so many people pleasing Christians around here that are too afraid to stand up and say "Yes, I believe in God and I believe your way is wrong but I'll still love you anyway.
I respect your beliefs and that you think my way is wrong. From the other side of the fence, however, I believe the same about you. I don't understand how anybody could be so blindly accepting of everything. Either 1) You accept your religion as the truth, and you're 100% ok with it, or 2) You've been brainwashed into believing it, and you've been trained to not fight the system. I really hope it's the former, as there's too many people in the world who do #2 and they're the ones who make me nervous. To explore #1 a bit more, though, I'm not 100% fine with the system, true or not. Since there's no proof either way, why should I embrace a system I don't like? According to your beliefs, I'm going to hell when I die. If I were to become a Christian, I'd go to heaven or hell, depending on how I lived my life. Also, according to your beliefs, I can't have what I ultimately want, and am relegated to one of the 3 possible outcomes I listed a bit above. Thus, for me to accept Christianity I'm going to suffer in this world, by believing in a system I dislike, and then, suffer in the afterlife for eternity under a system I dislike. Where as even if you ARE right, at least I get to enjoy this world a little. At least I get to spend my small fraction of eternity here being somewhat content. And, if you are wrong, then I win 100% - I enjoy life here, and I cease to exist when I'm done. Simple as that. To me, at least.
Y i J u And Jesus loves you more than anyone else ever will."
He has a funny way of showing it, by forcing eternal life on me so I can suffer all the way through it.
Y i J u The only reason I'm replying here is because I just want you to know how I felt.
That's cool, I welcome your opinions on the matter. I'd be very curious about your responses to my comments, too.
Y i J u No, I am not someone that goes around condemning people. And no, I'm not asking you to change your way of living because I said all this. But I'm just letting you know how I feel about it.
Hey, it's cool. Likewise, I'm not here trolling trying to convert anybody to my belief system either. I'd never do that. I believe you should research everything and make that decision on your own. Any questions, I'd be more than happy to answer, but I'd never ask anybody to give up their own faith.
This has always bothered me just a little. Not you, specifically, of course, but, well, here's an example.
I do something nice for somebody, they throw it back in my face stating they don't want it. I have to respect that.
I tell somebody I will light a candle for them according to the traditions and rituals I practice, they say "No, I'm Christian, don't." and I have to respect that, as well.
I wish somebody a Happy Hanukkah, and they say "I'm not Jewish", and I have to respect that. I wish somebody a Happy Solstice, and they say "I'm not pagan", and I have to respect that, too. They wish me a Merry Christmas, I tell them I'm not a Christian, and they say "deal with it, it's Christmas" or "I am, and I'm wishing you a Merry Christmas", (or similar).
Why is it that I have to take their offerings, including their prayers, even though I don't want them, but they get offended when I reciprocate? It isn't as if I'm going to sacrifice a small animal on an alter for them. And even so, if it was part of my religion (which it isn't, I assure you), what right would they have to get offended if they have the right to pray for me when I don't appreciate or want it? That's always sorta irked me just a little bit.
Please, keep your prayers. I mean no disrespect, and I appreciate the thought, but in the same token that I doubt you'd appreciate me doing some dark ritual for you, I've never felt appreciative of everybody saying "I'll pray for you." to me, hoping I'll change my ways, etc. |
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:45 am
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Ok, lol, your comments had me smiling the entire time.
I read it all too, I promise. xD
Although this will have to be short, it was great talking with you for now.
I am really tired at the moment..
The poem was awesomely good.
It had a lot of truth in it as well.
My comments back to your huge entire comments back would be,
I'll keep my hands to myself if you do the same.
Basically, I won't argue with you as long as you don't with me and biased on what I've read so far I don't think you will. :3
So, we agree to disagree?
This actually hurts my pride somewhat, but seeing as how I don't have much pride left it doesn't really matter. xD
Plus, you made me smile too much.
I won't pray for you if you really don't want me to, but I really can't see the harm if you believe that God doesn't exist.
Sometimes people aren't meant to interact with each other.
Reminds me of What The World Needs by Casting Crowns. x3
It used to be on my profile..
Ah well.
Shake hands?
Ps - As much as this looks like running, it isn't.
Now, I need to go bath a little boy. lol, talk to you later man.~
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:01 pm
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Hehe, thanks...
Good hearing back from you as well... Glad you liked my taste in poetry...
I don't like to argue with anybody, you have the right to believe whatever you wish, as do I. No need to start some Jihad over that razz
Thanks for that, and it isn't so much as "harm" as it is, I believe it's a waste of your time. First off, I'm happy the way things are, so for you to pray for that to change is, in my opinion, a disservice to me (regardless of God existing or not), since you'd in essence be asking for me to change. Secondly, since I don't believe in God, you're right, I feel you'd be talking to a wall on my behalf. So, there's why I'm asking you not to, though I again appreciate the thought.
As for interacting, I don't see anything wrong with interaction so long as certain boundaries are observed. My best friend is a Christian, I grew up in a Catholic environment with Catholic and Christian friends, some of whom I still speak to. We get along great, just by respecting each other's choices - In essence, yes, agreeing to disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't or don't interact. To each his/her own though, hehe.
*shakes*
Take care!
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:59 pm
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:19 pm
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:51 am
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PhaseBurn Hehe, thanks... Good hearing back from you as well... Glad you liked my taste in poetry... I don't like to argue with anybody, you have the right to believe whatever you wish, as do I. No need to start some Jihad over that razz Thanks for that, and it isn't so much as "harm" as it is, I believe it's a waste of your time. First off, I'm happy the way things are, so for you to pray for that to change is, in my opinion, a disservice to me (regardless of God existing or not), since you'd in essence be asking for me to change. Secondly, since I don't believe in God, you're right, I feel you'd be talking to a wall on my behalf. So, there's why I'm asking you not to, though I again appreciate the thought. As for interacting, I don't see anything wrong with interaction so long as certain boundaries are observed. My best friend is a Christian, I grew up in a Catholic environment with Catholic and Christian friends, some of whom I still speak to. We get along great, just by respecting each other's choices - In essence, yes, agreeing to disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't or don't interact. To each his/her own though, hehe. *shakes* Take care!
You seem like a perfectly nice person, actually, I wouldn't mind being your friend.
I have issues about friends though since none of them really ever understand or like REALLY talking to me.
In essence I've given up on the human race kinda. sweatdrop
But yeah, if you're interested in talking to me longer I'll let you make the first move cause the last time I tried to make the first move to befriend someone it ended up in a very painful, rotting, mess.
Cause the friend that I made walked all over me.. xD;
So yeah. ^_^
UmUm, U r kewlz.
Lol!
Your taste in poetry is excellent, btw. |
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:44 pm
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PhaseBurn A friend asked me to post this (as I stated in the opening).
No, deeper then that. Why even post on this board at your friend's request? if you're truly happy with your beliefs, why would you even post on this board even if you're closest friend asked? You're not unhappy right? So then why would it matter that your friends thinks what we say here will matter to you? I'll try to simplify my question, If you're truly happy with your belief, why does anyone questioning it bother you enough to post on a board to hear others opinions? Maybe because deep down, you're seeking something you don't have?
Realize, that I'm not trying to be rude. Just asking, that if you're truly happy with your beliefs, then you shouldn't need others opinions on it, even at a friend's request. Just the same, I'd have no reason to be christian if God doesn't exist. Therein lies my question, Your friend asking influenced your decision, but why did you make the decision to do as he asked? |
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:25 pm
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CCubed PhaseBurn A friend asked me to post this (as I stated in the opening). No, deeper then that. Why even post on this board at your friend's request? if you're truly happy with your beliefs, why would you even post on this board even if you're closest friend asked? You're not unhappy right? So then why would it matter that your friends thinks what we say here will matter to you? I'll try to simplify my question, If you're truly happy with your belief, why does anyone questioning it bother you enough to post on a board to hear others opinions? Maybe because deep down, you're seeking something you don't have?
Or maybe because I love and respect my friend, and since he wanted me to do this so he could see what questions others could throw at me, he might know and understand me better even if he couldn't think of those particular questions himself? Maybe deep down I just love my friends, and if it makes them happy, it's a small price to pay. I never said it was a bother.
CCubed Realize, that I'm not trying to be rude. Just asking, that if you're truly happy with your beliefs, then you shouldn't need others opinions on it, even at a friend's request. Just the same, I'd have no reason to be christian if God doesn't exist. Therein lies my question, Your friend asking influenced your decision, but why did you make the decision to do as he asked?
I know you aren't trying to be rude. It's a good question. However, isn't the fact that he asked this of me enough? I'm not in the habit of having friends who make frivolous requests to waste my time smile
I think it boils down to this: He's Christian, I'm not. He's been curious why I am the way I am, and we've talked about it. He's ok with it. I'm ok with it. But he asked me to post here, possibly so that others can be curious, or that I may "see the light" and change my ways. The reasons why he asked me to do this are his, and his alone. The fact that he asked me is enough for me to take the time to do this, for him. That's what his and my friendship means to me. |
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:29 pm
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PhaseBurn CCubed PhaseBurn A friend asked me to post this (as I stated in the opening). No, deeper then that. Why even post on this board at your friend's request? if you're truly happy with your beliefs, why would you even post on this board even if you're closest friend asked? You're not unhappy right? So then why would it matter that your friends thinks what we say here will matter to you? I'll try to simplify my question, If you're truly happy with your belief, why does anyone questioning it bother you enough to post on a board to hear others opinions? Maybe because deep down, you're seeking something you don't have? Or maybe because I love and respect my friend, and since he wanted me to do this so he could see what questions others could throw at me, he might know and understand me better even if he couldn't think of those particular questions himself? Maybe deep down I just love my friends, and if it makes them happy, it's a small price to pay. I never said it was a bother. CCubed Realize, that I'm not trying to be rude. Just asking, that if you're truly happy with your beliefs, then you shouldn't need others opinions on it, even at a friend's request. Just the same, I'd have no reason to be christian if God doesn't exist. Therein lies my question, Your friend asking influenced your decision, but why did you make the decision to do as he asked? I know you aren't trying to be rude. It's a good question. However, isn't the fact that he asked this of me enough? I'm not in the habit of having friends who make frivolous requests to waste my time smile I think it boils down to this: He's Christian, I'm not. He's been curious why I am the way I am, and we've talked about it. He's ok with it. I'm ok with it. But he asked me to post here, possibly so that others can be curious, or that I may "see the light" and change my ways. The reasons why he asked me to do this are his, and his alone. The fact that he asked me is enough for me to take the time to do this, for him. That's what his and my friendship means to me.
YEA! |
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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:04 pm
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:01 am
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mazuac You kinda like a buddhist... except they have different "commandments." I was kinda like you. Thinking "well, there are tons of other religions in the world, how is christianity the right one?" So I became athiest, but then I felt a nag to have a religion. I did a little research and found buddhism. Check it out, it's really peaceful. However, I am not chrisitian again, but still practice meditation biggrin So... gotta go biggrin
I was a buddhist for a while, and still meditate often. It's very relaxing, especially with a bunch of warm candles in a somewhat chilly room, lit only by those candles. I have a small fountain that sounds wonderful mixed in with that, a few bamboo plants, and it's just wonderful. |
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