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 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:09 pm
saint dreya Am I really that un-American, and un-military, if I'm glad they observed every Islamic requirement for his burial at sea? Am I really against what America stands for when I believe people should have a respectful send off to the other worlds? People seem to think that because he didn't seem to have a care for the lives of others, that he doesn't deserve to have his life/culture respected. But the way I see it is that if that's the way that we (are supposed to) feel about it, then it makes us no better than them.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:17 pm
The reactions in the Ethnic Slur petition, combined with the fact that the Gaia mods still refuse to do something about something so ******** simple and obvious are two large contributors to why I don't come around here much any more.
Just ain't a damn thing right in the world right now.
@being poor sucks: True ********' that.
@bin laden: you can't blame Americans for their massive cathartic release after ten years of hunting the man. They're frustrated on just about every level with the whole thing and killing the man is a huge release from that frustration. It doesn't fix anything but you can't honestly blame them for feeling like they got s**t done - finally.
Dreya, you aren't unmilitary or unAmerican for being glad they observed Islamic requirements. Unfortunately, they didn't observe Muslim standards for burial - in fact, what they did was a massive insult. I know that they did the prayers and cleaned him up and wrapped him, but tossing him in the sea is expressly forbidden in Islam.
I'm glad they tried though, they just missed the point. >.<
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:33 pm
Collowrath but tossing him in the sea is expressly forbidden in Islam. It's not- I researched this when my roomies freaked out about it- there are requirements, but it's not expressly forbidden.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:40 pm
Esiris Collowrath but tossing him in the sea is expressly forbidden in Islam. It's not- I researched this when my roomies freaked out about it- there are requirements, but it's not expressly forbidden. I should say, it's forbidden except in extreme circumstances. There's precedent for it if the person dies at sea and there isn't a port nearby (ie, if he can't reasonably be buried within the next day or so).
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:41 pm
Collowrath Esiris Collowrath but tossing him in the sea is expressly forbidden in Islam. It's not- I researched this when my roomies freaked out about it- there are requirements, but it's not expressly forbidden. I should say, it's forbidden except in extreme circumstances. There's precedent for it if the person dies at sea and there isn't a port nearby (ie, if he can't reasonably be buried within the next day or so). There's also a precedent for if there's a chance the body will be desecrated- which I think it's fair to say the former #1 Terrorist is a good target for.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 pm
Esiris Collowrath Esiris Collowrath but tossing him in the sea is expressly forbidden in Islam. It's not- I researched this when my roomies freaked out about it- there are requirements, but it's not expressly forbidden. I should say, it's forbidden except in extreme circumstances. There's precedent for it if the person dies at sea and there isn't a port nearby (ie, if he can't reasonably be buried within the next day or so). There's also a precedent for if there's a chance the body will be desecrated- which I think it's fair to say the former #1 Terrorist is a good target for. That's also reasonable. I guess the thorn in my side (combined with my apparently bad attitude today wink ) is that people keep saying that it's "according to Muslim tradition," when they mean "as respectful to Muslim tradition as possible given the circumstances."
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:04 pm
Collowrath That's also reasonable. I guess the thorn in my side (combined with my apparently bad attitude today wink ) is that people keep saying that it's "according to Muslim tradition," when they mean "as respectful to Muslim tradition as possible given the circumstances." What part of Muslim tradition was violated?
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:11 pm
I just wish people would shut up about it already. We should have never gone to war in the first place. Yeah they attacked us but hitting back makes us no better than them. The US needs to stop poking their nose in other country's business and take care of their own damn people.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:12 pm
Esiris Collowrath That's also reasonable. I guess the thorn in my side (combined with my apparently bad attitude today wink ) is that people keep saying that it's "according to Muslim tradition," when they mean "as respectful to Muslim tradition as possible given the circumstances." What part of Muslim tradition was violated? The ad-dafin/burial part. It's my understanding that allowing the body to be committed to Davey Jones' Locker is a concession to circumstance, not a valid burial.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:16 pm
Collowrath The ad-dafin/burial part. It's my understanding that allowing the body to be committed to Davey Jones' Locker is a concession to circumstance, not a valid burial. I think there's a collection of "valid burials"- and an order of preference, so what happened, as long as they followed Islamic tradition, was a valid burial.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Esiris Collowrath The ad-dafin/burial part. It's my understanding that allowing the body to be committed to Davey Jones' Locker is a concession to circumstance, not a valid burial. I think there's a collection of "valid burials"- and an order of preference, so what happened, as long as they followed Islamic tradition, was a valid burial. *shrug* Doing a Google search, it seems there's a bit of disagreement over exact protocol. Basically, the idea is to prevent beasts from eating or mutilating the body; it's not okay to simply drop the body (as it's essentially causing the mutilation of it), but it's certainly alright to put it in a coffin and commit it. So you're right - valid, but not preferable.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:15 pm
Collowrath The reactions in the Ethnic Slur petition, combined with the fact that the Gaia mods still refuse to do something about something so ******** simple and obvious are two large contributors to why I don't come around here much any more. It wasn't for lack of trying. sweatdrop Quote: @bin laden: you can't blame Americans for their massive cathartic release after ten years of hunting the man. They're frustrated on just about every level with the whole thing and killing the man is a huge release from that frustration. It doesn't fix anything but you can't honestly blame them for feeling like they got s**t done - finally. He's been on my s**t list for almost 13 years and I don't really feel that way about it at all, so it is a bit freaky for me to see people acting the way they are. Of course I'm a bit screwed up emotionally these days, so I'm probably the abnormal one. gonk
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:30 pm
I see what you did there wink too2sweet Collowrath The reactions in the Ethnic Slur petition, combined with the fact that the Gaia mods still refuse to do something about something so ******** simple and obvious are two large contributors to why I don't come around here much any more. It wasn't for lack of trying. sweatdrop I'm just really, really frustrated by the whole thing. stare And also, I don't think you're abnormal so much as people deal with situations differently. Some loud and obnoxious people burned couches and partied and waved flags, others sat in stunned silence, some of us got on Twitter.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:15 pm
X-Yami-no-Ko-X Yeah they attacked us but hitting back makes us no better than them. I think that's completely unrealistic- when someone commits an act of war or terrorism, action needs to be taken. Politically, psychologically- there needs to be a way to deal with the situation and pretending otherwise is either really naive or really damaging. Quote: The US needs to stop poking their nose in other country's business and take care of their own damn people. Going after a group whose stated goal is to bankrupt our country and killing hundreds or thousands of us is part of taking care of our own people. rolleyes War is horrible- but you need to think about all the different angles. The real question on ethics wasn't "Should we go to war in response to 9/11" it's "Now that we've found huge amounts of natural resources in those countries- will we do what we said we would and actually leave?"
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:41 pm
Esiris I think that's completely unrealistic- when someone commits an act of war or terrorism, action needs to be taken. Politically, psychologically- there needs to be a way to deal with the situation and pretending otherwise is either really naive or really damaging. I see your point but they said how many times that they were going to pull troops from Iraq and never completely kept to their word? And then when Obama said that we were going to keep out of Lybia(I think it was. Got somewhat of a bad memory and I was half listening.) but the next day we just go and bomb them sending gas prices sky high and they're still rising. Sorry. I'm just scared for my fiancé. And I never saw the point in war. I still see it as people just killing people over stupid reasons. It may just be something I never grow out of.
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