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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:20 am



I was talking with my about the most recent preview card on wizards, Null Profusion.
And the thing is I was wondering, if you have two different effects that do not state your hand size either rising or dropping, but giving it a fixed number. Which one will be the one you follow?
Such as Spellbook.

I don't know what I would answer myself, but I am leaning towards that you ought to go with the spellbook.
But I wanted to make sure.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:38 pm


Actually the answer to that question is timestamp order. Whichever one was played last will override the first. So if you played a null profusion and THEN a spellbook you would have no maximum hand size as spellbook's timestamp would be after null profusion. If the case was vice versa than your maximum hand size would be two since the profusions timestamp would override spellbook. 3nodding

Lord Yawgmoth
Crew

Shadowy Lunatic


Feints-

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:43 pm



Does this work with such a simple thing as if you qould remove either from the game until end of turn, the timestamp would be as the one that came into play last is the one to go with, I mean, it does not need to be played to over ride the other? Does it?

And, just a question, did not wizards want that kind of thing to be removed from the game rules. I mean the drastic change in the legendary rule.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:51 pm


Nope. It doesn't need to be 'played' just 'put into play' last by whatever effects the game generates. If you play null profusion and have a spellbook in play and flicker it (Im assuming flicker says non-token permanent I'm betting it says non-token creature but for the sake of argument lets pretend it says non-token permanent). When spellbook comes into play after flicker resolves it 'came into play last' and stacks overtop of the null profusion.

They wanted 'legends' to have their own flavor and yes it makes sense under the old rules where the newer legend would kill an old one but now it just kills both for whatever 'flavor' reasons they have behind that.

Lord Yawgmoth
Crew

Shadowy Lunatic


Mikujin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:48 am


It's been awhile. Sorry for the very, very long absence. Life's been busy, and so have I. I've been out of the loop as far as Magic goes, but I'm hoping to jump back into the game (and the new set, of course).

Now as far as Legends and flavor go I pretty much think of it like this...

You are a positive, your opponent is negative. A good chunk of cards are generic (basic lands, for example), and completely non-unique. This means there's no guarantee the positive-negative will fit together quiet right to cancel each other out. However, you play Legend1, and the followinf turn your opponenet plays a copy of Legend1 as well. Now there is a positive Legend1 and a negative Legend1. They are identical, right down to the brand of underwear they've got on. That being said, their own energies are perfectly even, but opposite, so the two cancel each other out perfectly, destroying both originals in the process. Unfortunately, other than a change to the game field, nothing is gained or lost (save perhaps some momentum).

Of course, this whole thing is based loosely on the fact that I love anti-matter. Heh.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:46 am


Mikujin
It's been awhile. Sorry for the very, very long absence. Life's been busy, and so have I. I've been out of the loop as far as Magic goes, but I'm hoping to jump back into the game (and the new set, of course).

Now as far as Legends and flavor go I pretty much think of it like this...

You are a positive, your opponent is negative. A good chunk of cards are generic (basic lands, for example), and completely non-unique. This means there's no guarantee the positive-negative will fit together quiet right to cancel each other out. However, you play Legend1, and the followinf turn your opponenet plays a copy of Legend1 as well. Now there is a positive Legend1 and a negative Legend1. They are identical, right down to the brand of underwear they've got on. That being said, their own energies are perfectly even, but opposite, so the two cancel each other out perfectly, destroying both originals in the process. Unfortunately, other than a change to the game field, nothing is gained or lost (save perhaps some momentum).

Of course, this whole thing is based loosely on the fact that I love anti-matter. Heh.


Interesting way to explain the rules of magic I must say.

Feints-


Hibiki (Neon) Tokai

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:15 pm


Allright, this one involves just a simple stupid question.

Using Pestilence (Or any other card that says Destroy all creatures or deal 1 damage to all creatures and players), This isn't considered Targeting, is it?

I have Skulking Knight (2/2 for 2 mana or 3/3 for 3 mana, when it becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it), and I also have Pestilience out. I deal everything and it's dog 1 damage through Pestilience. Retarded friend A says that that's considered targeting, and that it destroys my Skulking Knight.

I was unsure of this, due to the fact that this is the same friend who makes up rules about stuff just for his own advantage or to hinder myself.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:28 pm


No you're probably right in what you're thinking and your friend is wrong. Anything that deals damage to all or destroys all or returns all is not targetting. Even if it says "each" each is another common word that is now equated rules wise to "all". So no, the skulking knight or any other skulking creature (ghost, volraths ..uh...something from tempest thats a skulking knight with a different name) will not die if you pestilence once. Now, if you do it three times obviously it'll just die from having lethal damage. But not from it's ability.

Lord Yawgmoth
Crew

Shadowy Lunatic


Feints-

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:57 am



Okay, this is not an easy question to actually articulate.

Look, it's about "slivers".
I was thinking as my pal's sliver.dec was kicking some a**, not that unusual, since it's a T1 sliver.dec that have been built to be fast and effective...
Anyhoo, what I was thinking was this.

The sliver ability "all slivers have".
I was thinking as of so, the sliver Dormant Sliver have as you see "All slivers have defender and "Whenever this creature come into play, draw a card"".

The thing I thought of then was, "do dormant sliver get to draw a card when it comes into play itself?"
I was thinking, do the sliver ability work on itself BEFORE it comes into play? i.e. do the sliver give itself the bonuses before it's actually played?
I feel that a sliver that give slivers a comes into play effect need to be in play for the effect to be acive. It should not, logically, be of use until it has landed... right?
Well, so, I guess that the questions really is "do a dormant sliver make you draw a card when it comes into play?"

I know that I am most likely wrong in wanting it to be no. But hey, I thought I might check it with you, just for the fudge of it. ^^
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:27 pm


Lord Yawgmoth
* sub-note: I've been getting a lot of questions from my friends about Momentary Blink as it pertains to 'fizzling' spells. yes. You can fizzle a spell with it. Once the creature leaves the game, despite the fact that it comes right back in the same spell, the game "forgets" who it was. And so does every spell/ability that was targetting it.


Okay, I have a question about this. The same friend i'm always talking about, who makes up rules for himself or to hinder me? Another issue.

Before he came to MTG, he actually played other Card games. I tried playing Momentary Blink to "Fizzle" one of his spells. His reasoning behind this was that he had to target another one of my creatures, not that his spell and missed.

It doesn't allow him to pick another target, does it?

Hibiki (Neon) Tokai


Liquidor

Original Player

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:56 pm


Legions_

Okay, this is not an easy question to actually articulate.

Look, it's about "slivers".
I was thinking as my pal's sliver.dec was kicking some a**, not that unusual, since it's a T1 sliver.dec that have been built to be fast and effective...
Anyhoo, what I was thinking was this.

The sliver ability "all slivers have".
I was thinking as of so, the sliver Dormant Sliver have as you see "All slivers have defender and "Whenever this creature come into play, draw a card"".

The thing I thought of then was, "do dormant sliver get to draw a card when it comes into play itself?"
I was thinking, do the sliver ability work on itself BEFORE it comes into play? i.e. do the sliver give itself the bonuses before it's actually played?
I feel that a sliver that give slivers a comes into play effect need to be in play for the effect to be acive. It should not, logically, be of use until it has landed... right?
Well, so, I guess that the questions really is "do a dormant sliver make you draw a card when it comes into play?"

I know that I am most likely wrong in wanting it to be no. But hey, I thought I might check it with you, just for the fudge of it. ^^

Harmonic Sliver destroys an Artifact / Enchantment when it comes into play so I see no reason why Dormant wouldn't do so as well.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:08 pm


Liquidor
Legions_

Okay, this is not an easy question to actually articulate.

Look, it's about "slivers".
I was thinking as my pal's sliver.dec was kicking some a**, not that unusual, since it's a T1 sliver.dec that have been built to be fast and effective...
Anyhoo, what I was thinking was this.

The sliver ability "all slivers have".
I was thinking as of so, the sliver Dormant Sliver have as you see "All slivers have defender and "Whenever this creature come into play, draw a card"".

The thing I thought of then was, "do dormant sliver get to draw a card when it comes into play itself?"
I was thinking, do the sliver ability work on itself BEFORE it comes into play? i.e. do the sliver give itself the bonuses before it's actually played?
I feel that a sliver that give slivers a comes into play effect need to be in play for the effect to be acive. It should not, logically, be of use until it has landed... right?
Well, so, I guess that the questions really is "do a dormant sliver make you draw a card when it comes into play?"

I know that I am most likely wrong in wanting it to be no. But hey, I thought I might check it with you, just for the fudge of it. ^^

Harmonic Sliver destroys an Artifact / Enchantment when it comes into play so I see no reason why Dormant wouldn't do so as well.


Yes, It's even an official ruling on the Gatherer Website.Harmonic Sliver

If you look at the bottom of the page, there's the heading called "Official Rulings". It's under that, along with the specification of "The creature's controller gets to choose the target, not the controller of Hermonic Sliver."

Sorry, not trying to threadjack or whatnot, I just know a lot about Slivers, that's all.

Hibiki (Neon) Tokai


Lord Yawgmoth
Crew

Shadowy Lunatic

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:09 pm


Legions: Yes. Dormant sliver draws a card when it comes into play itself
Hibiki: No. The workings of a spell are as follows.
A spell is announced. Announced means two things. One. the spell is placed onto the stack. and targets are chosen. A spell is paid for. (yes. targets are chosen before costs are paid. This is why a Bloodshot Cyclops can "chuck" himself at a target) The spell is then actively on the stack and priority passes if the active player doesn't have anymore spells to tack onto the stack.
Now what does this mean for your question?
It means simply that when you blink a creature out that's being targetted with say.....a terror. Terror's target was chosen before the one and one black was even paid. Now, when a permanent leaves the 'in play' zone and travels to ANY other zone the game "forgets" all previous knowledge the card had. (the only exception is phasing in which a card remembers itself when it phases back in) What does 'forgets' mean? Forgets means that all abilities it had or effects it had it doesn't remember doing. All spells or abilities that had a lock on it have forgotten where it went and have lost track of it. So upon resolution those spells and or abilities are 'countered by the game rules for lack of all targets' i.e. fizzled by our terms. Since you can only pick targets ONCE and that's when the spell is played, fizzling a spell like this does not allow that spells controller to pick another legal target.

Important Note: I had to ask a judge before I became one myself about this before going to regionals. If a spell has two targets, lets say uh...plow under. If you momentary blink one land (lets say they're creatures and lands at the time for the sake of the point) plow under STILL resolves. However, it only puts the one land that wasn't blinked on top of its owners library. When the rules for targetting were changed because of 'splice onto arcane' it was ruled that to fizzle a spell for lack of target ALL of its targets had to be illegal.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:58 pm



I figured as much, just wanted to one hundred percent sure.
Thanks for the help.

Feints-


tails990

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:20 am


when my opponent attacks if i block with a creature and my opponent taps it with coral trickster to prevent it from blocking is the creature still blocked or do i take damage from the attacking creature?
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The Original Magic the Gathering Guild

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