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Gaia's world martial artist tournament that pits the best fighters against one another for the title of Gaia's Best! 

Tags: tenkaichi, budokai, battle, tournament 

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Oncle Roen

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:56 pm


Sokoya Ramak

I'm not on your team for DT, though.

Also, the 10-minute kenshiro punchfest....I'm in tears.


Oh, teammate, what fun we will have together.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:58 pm


Ah, but Omi's original plan was to, upon reaching the finals (which he dangerously got close to doing practically by himself), sending in Wil and Garok to tire out the enemy team while he stood back / evaded any combat, until the two were pretty much useless or near dead.

Then, he would use them as living bombs, on the understanding he would wish them back to life - and get the absent ex-captain's wish to make as well given he was current captain. A mostly unscathed fighter would face off against three badly wounded fighters, easily securing victory.

It was the perfect plan. [Crunches his fists.] If only.. If only..

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o ReaverQueen o

Phantom

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:59 pm


Yeah, it's something like,

KB

- Sunburned face
- Clawed up arms
- Bashed right elbow
- More or less no change in stamina/expended energy

Iden

- Both eyes burned out
- Demolished arm
- Both clavicles torn out
- Throat torn out
- Chest caved in
- Severe burns across exposed areas ( the aforementioned injuries )
- Majority of blood stores exhausted


---

So... the choices were either call it, or have one of us killed and the other disqualified.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:00 pm


Roen Jaeger
Sokoya Ramak

I'm not on your team for DT, though.

Also, the 10-minute kenshiro punchfest....I'm in tears.


Oh, teammate, what fun we will have together.


=/

The Female of the Species

Prophet


The Thunder Tyrant

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:03 pm


themightyjello
W
Ah HA HA HA.

Yes. Exactly. Thank you Noire for your benevolence and grace. It is by your unseen hand that we are still so privileged to post on this site.

I had a response to this but it'd take up too much of the page so I'll hold back.


Give in to your anger, and join the Dark Side.

:Vader:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:04 pm


Turn that frown upside down, young lady. You get wrinkles like that.

Oncle Roen

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themightyjello


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:04 pm


Old Man KB
So... the choices were either call it, or have one of us killed and the other disqualified.

Well, I kinda figured that it was going to have to get called at some point because of the fact that it's 2 vampires in a ring, and they don't really do anything other than be not-dead or dead.

Plus at the point where you were stabbing him in the face with his own bones I kind of figured it was just about time to wrap up the thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:06 pm


The Darth Vizzle
themightyjello
Michael Noire
HoH continues to exist because of a bunch of phone calls I received in the middle of the night while in Washington DC. I recommended against the mass ban and that message went to Doji and the rest of the mods active in Shem's office and they convinced Noraboo not to shut the whole thing down.

Then a bunch of HoH officials patted themselves on the back for "facing down" the admin. rolleyes


I had a response to this but it'd take up too much of the page so I'll hold back.


Give in to your anger, and join the Dark Side.

:Vader:


Noraboo
themightyjello
First off, I'd like to apologize for making you take the time out of your schedule (as I can only imagine that you're kept quite busy with all the antics of the headstrong denizens of Gaia), but seeing as I just got off a plane and come home to find a verifiable shitstorm waiting for me in IM windows, PMs, and guild threads... I quite honestly feel the need to ask:

"Who complained?"

It's a simple question, and it carries more meaning in it than any other argument. We've been doing this for three years now, using the same format, and many of the same participants. If there was something wrong with it people wouldn't continue to come back... they wouldn't continue to get hyped up about the idea of HoH coming up at the end of the year... they wouldn't be getting teams together months in advance because they want to play the game that badly.

There are a few bad apples, yes. There are always a few bad apples... especially when it comes to something like free-form roleplaying where you're basically playing cowboys and indians with the "bang bang, you're dead" / "no I'm not, you missed".

In the three years I've been working with this tournament and in the four and a half years I've been roleplaying on this website there is no truth more clear than the one that tells us that the 'top dog' from wherever thread or guild they come from doesn't win like they expect to and are used to, they tend to complain. From December 2005, the only complaints Heaven or Hell has had raised against it were from a small handful of individuals that weren't happy because they performed embarrassingly (ask anyone in the guild and you'll get the same response) and received a poor score because of it... and then the one who was angry because in our obscenely long list of rules we still haven't managed to have one for every situation.

Please note that I'm speaking purely on behalf of the participants of Heaven or Hell. I honestly don't care worth a fart and two shits what complaints are raised by people who aren't even willing to play the game. We hold Heaven or Hell for the joy and entertainment of the dozens (this year around 80) users who wish to participate.

One bad apple spoils the bunch? Not if they refuse to even get in the bushel.

Noraboo
This PM is being sent to the guild captain of the GGN Heaven or Hell, as well as to several staff members involved in the reason behind the guild's recent disabling. This past month you were approached by Gaia moderating staff who informed you that your tournament was in violation of Gaia's guidelines. Specifically, staff members involved in hosting the contest had also entered themselves into it. This action creates a conflict and is considered to be scamming, and as such it is strictly prohibited. However, we note that as of this time the crew members have not been removed and that the guild has not aided by the earlier staff request. Accordingly the guild has been shut down as it is in violation of Gaia's Terms of Service.

I believe that you are mistaken in this regard. We received a message close to that, but we do have the exact thing quoted on the front page of the recruitment thread if you'd like to take a look at it. We posted it publicly as soon as it was given, and we have not changed anything about how we run Heaven or Hell because of that notice.

Why? The answer is simple: We were not in violation of anything in that statement. We were not at the time, and we are not now. We were not informed that our tournament was in violation of Gaia's guidelines, we were informed that our tournament was going to be watched by some unseen eye so that in the event that something was in violation of Gaia's guidelines we would be informed of it.

Here is the complete (unedited, unabridged, just as it was sent to us) notice from Arretsu:
Arretsu
Hey!

HoH has come to the be noticed by both moderators and admins. I am to notify you of the rules that are to be put in place, in order for the tournament to occur.

Anyone who is participating in the tournament, cannot be a judge. Those who are judges cannot participate. That means no mules are allowed as well. Users who are fighting can put in mules to participate, but people who are staff/judges cannot enter via mules.

If these rules are not followed, the tournament will be shut down. If you have any furthur questions, please feel free to contact Doji Kurohito, or Arretsu.

Thank you,
Arretsu

Now if you'll notice, nowhere in there did it say that we were in violation of any rules. Also, I'd like to point out that this continues both today and yesterday (before you decided to drop the hammer on us for doing nothing wrong).

"Anyone who is participating in the tournament cannot be a judge."
There is no violation here. The Judges for Heaven or Hell are myself (themightyjello), Kraun, and Maximos. This year we will be posting official statements through a mule Judge account (-HoH- Judge) that was created for the purpose of making the Heaven of Hell event seem more colorful, and to help us segue into the storyline event we are planning for next year's Heaven or Hell tournament.

Of the members who are crew in the guild and are participating in the tournament, there are Vahn Fah (contributing to writing the storyline updates), [..X..] (creating HoH banner art), and Chaplain Fenix (operating our mini-game thread 'HoH Square'). None of these individuals are involved in the Heaven or Hell judging in any way. Any argument you could possibly have against them is that because they have crew status they are able to view the judge decisions before they are made public... but they are going to be made public anyways as soon as all 3 judges have their numbers put in, so the point is largely moot.

"Those who are judges cannot participate."
This is just a repeat of the above, but it's been a Heaven or Hell rule since the very beginning. We do not allow our judge staff to participate in the tournament.

"That means no mules are allowed as well."
Heaven or Hell official policy is that if we catch any user using a mule to enter the tournament (this is both for judges and participants) all of their accounts will be ejected from the tournament. Heaven or Hell is a one-user-one-character event. To our knowledge, the only mules involved in Heaven or Hell (other than the ones belonging to users who have contacted us in regards to temp-bans) are the -HoH- storyline NPCs; which are not involved in the flow of the tournament and are simply used for posting flavor text.

"Users who are fighting can put in mules to participate, but people who are staff/judges cannot enter via mules."
No. We do not allow users to enter multiple characters, regardless of how many accounts they do so with.

Now it seems silly to me that the only one of these rules that was actually violated was the last one... which is an even more effective measure to reduce the possibility of cheating or scamming than following it would be.


In summary: I am not pleased at all with the decision that your staff has come to in regards to how we are to run our event. We have followed all of Gaia's rules, as well as our own, as well as catering to the wants and needs of our participants in order to create a setting that is both fair and fun for everyone. By your earlier decree our guild was shut down, causing a complete flood of complaints in the OOC and even talk about moving the tournament off-site. I guarantee that doing so would be a terrible loss for the Gaia community and for our users because Heaven or Hell generates a lot of posting over the course of the tournament, which translates both into hits and advertisement views for the site and into gold for our participants via posting.

Additionally, requiring that we throw out 3 members of the tournament simply because they are volunteering to help make Heaven or Hell more enjoyable for everyone is downright criminal.

If every Gaia mod wasn't allowed to open a charity or Exchange shop simply because of their status, you would feel the same way that I do right now about your decision in this matter. I respectfully request that you reconsider this, as I have no interest in seeing the experience of Heaven or Hell lessened for anyone... even the haters.

Noraboo
This PM has been sent to both the guild captain account as well as the accounts which have access to it, are staff members, and are involved in the conflicting entry/staff roles. However, for the sake of simplicity in communications, I would ask that only the guild captain account reply with the decision regarding reenabling the guild.

Thank you for your time,
Noraboo, Gaia Admin

Please take note that this response to your PM is following all guidelines, is in the most polite tone that I can manage considering the circumstances of these pointless accusations, and does follow your request. This PM is not in regard to the re-enabling of the guild, as that has already been done. This PM is of my own concerns both as a member of the Gaia community and as an administrator of the Heaven or Hell franchise.

Thank you for your time,
themightyjello, Heaven or Hell administrator


P.S. While you are all having a pow-wow about the state of our affairs, can you at least get me a response to the issue that Doji promised me he would bring up to the lot of you? If I were to refund ALL the entry fees to ALL the participants and fill the space with (another) donation could we just drop this entire issue and let everyone get back to the fun of roleplaying?
Not that everyone involve isn't having a HOOT at this whole "the MAN is keeping us down" thing.


If there's no gold involved then it obviously can't be a scam, which means that any site rules have no place within a friendly roleplaying event held in good humor between compatriots and new faces alike in which there just happens to be a substantial cash prize divided a dozen or more ways which is furnished by the tournament admins themselves and a few friends who wanted to contribute to the pot in the hopes of stirring up more excitement for everyone involved.

...cripes that's a lot to say in one breath. xp


This matter was brought to my attention by moderators who felt that a staff member from outside the guilds forum was necessary to resolve the situation. Based on logged information of the warnings that were given and that crew members were clearly enrolled in the contest, I decided that given the prior warning the best course of action was to disable the guild temporarily until the situation could be resolved, as the prior warning had not been effectual. Had the initial warning been the only communition then I would have issued a second warning; however I myself have read a number of posts with discussion back and forth with doji that I felt did make it clear that staff members could not be enrolled in the contest.

I sincerely apologize if you feel targeted in any way; this is not the case. We would take this action for any situation with such a conflict. The example I gave lady sierra is one of a group art auction where the host of the contest or the atists participating in it bid on their own auction. While one case is of bid inflation and yours is of potential bias in judging, the conflict is the same, and if we had not taken action now and someone had later complained, the end result of the contest might have to be nullified and the competition repeated, which, given how much work you all do, didn't seem like the best option.

As I said to one of the myriad people who PMed me when I woke up this morning, if they wish to participate but be ineligible to win, that is their choice. In the future, to prevent this, they can still work on art and all of that, but they cannot be crew or staff, especially if they have access to forums where judging occurs.

I'll continue to clarify as much as I can, however I have probably upwards of 10 PMs on this topic from different people, and simply I do not have the time to reply to every single guild member who wants to let me know how they feel about this topic. I'm sorry that they are not happy with the decision that was made, however it was certainly the least harsh option outside of completely ignoring the situation, which I couldn't do once my intervention was requested because according to our guidelines it's not an acceptable situation.

I hope that you'll find entry without being eligible for a prize an acceptable solution, or can otherwise find a solution that does not involve this conflict.

Thank you for your time and patience on this matter ^^
~Noraboo



Yup, Noire talking to Doji certainly changed everything, when Doji was the one who'd failed his responsibility to get HoH taken off the watch list after the first round of unjustified report-button clicking.

And man, calling people. Those dozens of unanswered PMs in her inbox on this topic seemed to be the voice of reason. Mob justice is one thing, public outcry is one thing, convincing someone to go along with a reasonable solution is another.


themightyjello


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o ReaverQueen o

Phantom

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:06 pm


Yeah. It's only now that I realize how obscenely broken KB is for a KO-styled fighting tournament.

If my opponent had been mortal the fight would have ended in like... a minute.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:13 pm


Oh my.

There were actually many decent conversations in this thread today. I enjoyed backreading. I wish I had been here earlier to participate in some of these.

Instead I'll just sit here GLEE-ing instead.

ruski rockpet


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Phantom

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:14 pm


I need a crow.

The crows around my house keep flying away when I try to catch them. I know they can be trained, because an old man down the street from where I lived as a kid had one he used to carry around with him.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:15 pm


Inus_Miana
Instead I'll just sit here GLEE-ing instead.


Hm. You know, a good conversation tends to flow in a delicious manner, yet it always feels like it needs topped with something. I can't.. quite.. put my finger on wh-

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themightyjello


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:15 pm


Yes, there were actually a lot of constructive comments made in the conversations today. I wish I had been here for them but it seems like they managed without me just fine.

A nice change of pace from Rhoslyn's weed and Omi's G-gundam.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:17 pm


Old Man KB
I need a crow.

The crows around my house keep flying away when I try to catch them. I know they can be trained, because an old man down the street from where I lived as a kid had one he used to carry around with him.


OH GAWD THE CROWSKATES.

Mr Shinjiko

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ruski rockpet

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:20 pm


themightyjello
Yes, there were actually a lot of constructive comments made in the conversations today. I wish I had been here for them but it seems like they managed without me just fine.

A nice change of pace from Rhoslyn's weed and Omi's G-gundam.

Mm, I agree completely. That one comment someone made, about the discussion in here being just about: sex, violence, drugs and ... yeah, something else.

I feel that's satisfactorily negated. ^ ^

Though perhaps my own feelings are more of the side of: I can't imagine the conversation would have benefited from any input from me, so I suppose I'm completely satisfied with coming home to read that. > u<



...

-smacks the bottle away-
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