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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:37 am
Esiris That hasn't been my experience of Pride where I live. People act out, in part because we're mistreated. Oh, yes, more fuel for the fire, very good idea. Esiris Pride doesn't have to lead to superiority. Pride can be an honoring and cherishing of who and what we are. And yet many of the homosexuals I know think that they are better than the "heterosexual agenda". Furthermore why should I be proud of the way in which I was born, proud of something that I did not choose to be? It is not an accomplishment, there is nothing to be proud of. It is a private thing that does not need to be flared in others' faces just for the sake of "By the way, I'm gay and this is what I do in the bedroom just so you know." It is inappropriate and rude to do such things.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:34 am
Arcanist Angus Oh, yes, more fuel for the fire, very good idea. Where I live, people ride bikes naked on the Summer Solstice. They don't really talk about how badly that reflects on heteros. It isn't so much fuel for the fire as much as it is that anything we do will be used against us by people who hate, unless we are silent, but our silence allows their hate to continue and makes us second class citizens. Quote: And yet many of the homosexuals I know think that they are better than the "heterosexual agenda". Seems to be a problem with the people, not the pride. Quote: Furthermore why should I be proud of the way in which I was born, proud of something that I did not choose to be? It is not an accomplishment, there is nothing to be proud of. It is a private thing that does not need to be flared in others' faces just for the sake of "By the way, I'm gay and this is what I do in the bedroom just so you know." It is inappropriate and rude to do such things. If your way of being proud is to shove it in people's faces, I can understand how that is rude. If instead it is about being present in who you are- then that is a healthy sense of pride. On TV, you see a man and a woman watching a movie and laughing together. That's perceived as "straight". You see a man and another man cheering at a football game and that is perceived as "straight". It doesn't matter if they are actually a couple of friends who happen to be gay. The only way we are represented as gay is in the bedroom. It makes sense that in our struggle to be seen as equals, to be represented as part of society and not a secret within it- the shock of what makes us different will be highlighted until people stop pretending that we aren't straight just because they are.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:27 am
I've gotta say, I've yet to be to a Pride parade that was oversexed. It was mostly just hardcore marching with signs and banners and fists in the air. Angry GLBT.
Might just be my city though.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:29 am
Iron Harlot I've gotta say, I've yet to be to a Pride parade that was oversexed. It was mostly just hardcore marching with signs and banners and fists in the air. Angry GLBT. Might just be my city though. My city has the second largest Stonewall parade in the nation, and it isn't oversexed. Granted, there are large floats handing out condoms and some sex-industry involvement, but given the status of such in the gay community and the need for safe-sex knowledge, it's more than understandable. It's definitely not the whole of the parade though. There's a good bit of fist pumping angry gays, but most of it is humor and a celebration of GLBT culture. For one day out of the year, we get to celebrate that culture which rose from our continued treatment as second-class citizens, forced underground. For one day we get to take pride in it, pride in ourselves and who we are, when any other given day we're forced behind closed doors at the risk of being beaten to death for showing affection to our partners. I was going to apologize for offending anyone with it, but really, I'm not going to because I refuse to legitimize the false, harmful stereotypes of my community here. *shrug*
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:40 am
This isn't the point of my rant. The point is that I shouldn't be looked down upon because I see it as inappropriate to show any sort of sexuality in public. In the circles I run in and indeed in the homosexual community I am seen as prude because I am modest, anti-gay because I support heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, and bigoted because I stand up for myself and tell people that a certain advertisement is overtly sexual and not showing the point of the support group!
Yes, I have a problem with gay pride because all it is is an excuse to show off because we are "oppressed". I think that instead of running naked through the streets, which is just inappropriate to begin with because public nudity is just rude and degrading, which tends to happen where I live that we should be angry and sporting signs and making speeches. Not against some "heterosexual agenda" but against the point that we are not equal to most of society.
Of course the whole "heterosexual agenda" sells big time because everyone wants to blame someone rather than looking at themselves and thinking "Oh yah...I'm naked and their kid is right there, no wonder they hate me."
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:46 pm
Collowrath Iron Harlot I've gotta say, I've yet to be to a Pride parade that was oversexed. It was mostly just hardcore marching with signs and banners and fists in the air. Angry GLBT. Might just be my city though. My city has the second largest Stonewall parade in the nation, and it isn't oversexed. Granted, there are large floats handing out condoms and some sex-industry involvement, but given the status of such in the gay community and the need for safe-sex knowledge, it's more than understandable. It's definitely not the whole of the parade though. There's a good bit of fist pumping angry gays, but most of it is humor and a celebration of GLBT culture. For one day out of the year, we get to celebrate that culture which rose from our continued treatment as second-class citizens, forced underground. For one day we get to take pride in it, pride in ourselves and who we are, when any other given day we're forced behind closed doors at the risk of being beaten to death for showing affection to our partners. I was going to apologize for offending anyone with it, but really, I'm not going to because I refuse to legitimize the false, harmful stereotypes of my community here. *shrug* My only issue with pride is how pride in a lot of places pushes out trans people or shuffles us to the side. But that's fairly common in cisGLB to begin with, so it's not a huge surprise and certainly not a Pride specific issue.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:49 pm
Arcanist Angus The point is that I shouldn't be looked down upon because I see it as inappropriate to show any sort of sexuality in public. I don't have a problem with your views. I only have a problem with you looking down on me because I believe sexuality should not be hidden if you don't want to hide it. Quote: Yes, I have a problem with gay pride because all it is is an excuse to show off because we are "oppressed". I always saw it as a party celebrating the community and surviving the hardships we face while reminding people that there's still more to do. Quote: public nudity is just rude and degrading Oh I disagree very strongly and vehemently with you there.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:46 pm
Arcanist Angus This isn't the point of my rant. The point is that I shouldn't be looked down upon because I see it as inappropriate to show any sort of sexuality in public. In the circles I run in and indeed in the homosexual community I am seen as prude because I am modest, anti-gay because I support heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, and bigoted because I stand up for myself and tell people that a certain advertisement is overtly sexual and not showing the point of the support group! I'm sorry you're being mistreated. I also don't feel that the tables should be turned and have you look down on us because we feel it can be appropriate to show sexuality in public. Quote: Yes, I have a problem with gay pride because all it is is an excuse to show off because we are "oppressed". I don't see it as showing off, I see it as bringing awareness to the shortfalls and triumphs. (Suck on that Prop 8!) Do you think women would be able to vote if we had quietly asked repeatedly? Would the Woman's Rights Movement have given us the legal protection we have now if we had decided to be silent? Sometimes being loud gets the most change in the shortest amount of time. I understand some of how you feel. The only thing that the mainstream comments on is what makes us different. That means who we have sex with and what's in our pants. There isn't the support for us and a lot of mistakes happen when we start to deal with who we are. I know how frustrating that can be. I just don't think it means that we need to limit how we express that frustration. Quote: I think that instead of running naked through the streets, which is just inappropriate to begin with because public nudity is just rude and degrading, which tends to happen where I live that we should be angry and sporting signs and making speeches. The times I've run around naked in public it was a HOOT. Getting the mud out of the awkward places wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. If you feel degraded, it isn't for you. But if I don't, why should I do what is right for you instead of what is right for me? Quote: Not against some "heterosexual agenda" but against the point that we are not equal to most of society. I think you're right about that. It is a bit silly, especially when you can point to actual laws and call them by name. Targets are useful. Quote: Of course the whole "heterosexual agenda" sells big time because everyone wants to blame someone rather than looking at themselves and thinking "Oh yah...I'm naked and their kid is right there, no wonder they hate me." I think hating someone for being naked has more to do with their head then mine though. But then, I'm a big fan of Sex Positive Culture and a casual nudist.
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:51 pm
Seeky Gho the Girl Seeky Alright, R. Call me out in a public forum on my bad habits, cryptically? In such a way that I can't say anything without having to explain the habits? Right. That's bullshit. Tell it too my face next time. I get Scati's silences, they're to not hurt feelings, but you? Storing it up to use it like that? That was wrong, mean, hurtful. And if you do it again, I will start listening to Snake's ideas. Hm. I get your frustration. I don't know your situation, but some advice if I may (and if I may not, please read no further, and I will withdraw it with my apologies): Speak out to them, but in private. It may seem scary, or unwise, but honest, one-on-one communication is the first step if there is going to be a hope of rescuing a relationship, whatever it may be. If they are unwilling, move on. Remaining in a vexful, hexing communion serves nobody. If you feel frustrated and have no way to reach closure, you should find your own in a way that respects your needs and feelings while also being respectful of theirs. Just as you have been denied that respect, do not also fall into the same hole. Become a bigger person, grow from this contention, and live free. Heh. As free as a student on a training base can live, that is. But, I didn't need much of a talk with her. Passing in the halls, meeting her eyes, and murmuring "not cool" was enough to get her to delete her post on the CoP forum for our schoolhouse. And today was much better--what I expected to be a nosy personal question on break turned out to be "wanna come out with us for haircuts and manicures?" Well, hey, behold the magic of direct communication. 3nodding Congrats!
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:36 pm
Collowrath Iron Harlot I've gotta say, I've yet to be to a Pride parade that was oversexed. It was mostly just hardcore marching with signs and banners and fists in the air. Angry GLBT. Might just be my city though. My city has the second largest Stonewall parade in the nation, and it isn't oversexed. Granted, there are large floats handing out condoms and some sex-industry involvement, but given the status of such in the gay community and the need for safe-sex knowledge, it's more than understandable. It's definitely not the whole of the parade though. There's a good bit of fist pumping angry gays, but most of it is humor and a celebration of GLBT culture. For one day out of the year, we get to celebrate that culture which rose from our continued treatment as second-class citizens, forced underground. For one day we get to take pride in it, pride in ourselves and who we are, when any other given day we're forced behind closed doors at the risk of being beaten to death for showing affection to our partners. I was going to apologize for offending anyone with it, but really, I'm not going to because I refuse to legitimize the false, harmful stereotypes of my community here. *shrug* I have to say, word.
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:11 am
Esiris But then, I'm a big fan of Sex Positive Culture and a casual nudist. Me too! *griiiin*
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:34 am
Esiris I also don't feel that the tables should be turned and have you look down on us because we feel it can be appropriate to show sexuality in public. Then how should he handle it? By keeping quiet? Quote: I don't see it as showing off, I see it as bringing awareness to the shortfalls and triumphs. So if what he's claiming to observe is true then breaking public nudity laws is acceptable way of protesting? Also what does nudity and the other behavior he's describing have to do with being GLBT? Quote: Do you think women would be able to vote if we had quietly asked repeatedly? Would the Woman's Rights Movement have given us the legal protection we have now if we had decided to be silent? Wait didn't you tell him to keep quiet and not to judge? Quote: Sometimes being loud gets the most change in the shortest amount of time. Then shouldn't the WBC be making mountains of change? Quote: I understand some of how you feel. The only thing that the mainstream comments on is what makes us different. That means who we have sex with and what's in our pants. There isn't the support for us and a lot of mistakes happen when we start to deal with who we are. I know how frustrating that can be. I just don't think it means that we need to limit how we express that frustration. So public sex shows is the way to go? While as sexy as that sounds, that seems to be one of the issue that mainstream culture lambastes against the GLBT community. So why reinforce the negative stereotypes associate with GLBT in your protesting methods? Quote: The times I've run around naked in public it was a HOOT. Getting the mud out of the awkward places wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. If you feel degraded, it isn't for you. But if I don't, why should I do what is right for you instead of what is right for me? I guess he should just keep quiet about that too right? Quote: I think hating someone for being naked has more to do with their head then mine though. But then, I'm a big fan of Sex Positive Culture and a casual nudist. So then care to explain why there is something wrong with the other person's head for not wanting their child exposed to nudity expressed in a sexual fashion?
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:22 am
Mighty Morphing Power Ranger,
Have you seen the Boondocks?
Do you understand what Uncle Ruckus is about?
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:57 pm
I always knew this day would come. The day when all of that Mr. Dark drama would come back to get me, and that day is tomorrow.
And it wasn't really the drama that was the problem, it was the abuse disguised as magic that bothers me. The worst part is that it never happened to me, but I had to see friends caught up in it and see them accept the abuse as necessary and right.
And they still tell me they don't want to lose the people that abused them as friends.
Edit: Disaster averted, sort of. I still think I'm going to have to deal with this, and if I have to, there's probably going to be violence.
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:25 pm
It's over. I'm done.
Abuse is never an excuse. If you cause me pain, and are unrepentant for it, I don't care who you are, I have the right to remove myself from you, or remove you from myself.
If you use your abuse as a defense to be a jerk, you're being manipulative. If you use your abuse as a defense to be a jerk, you're mistaken.
Jerkiness is jerkiness, whether it's meant, accidental, or caused by some deep rooted scar.
If I rape someone because I was raped, or molest someone because I was molested, I would be one of the lowest pieces of s**t to expect acceptance and support of my rape/molestation just because I was molested or raped.
Why should jerkiness be accepted or supported?
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