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 Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:32 pm
OMG, Mien Gott, Dios Mio, Kami-Sama!
Ok, that got that out of the way.
This is my thesis for all that i believe in for cloud/aerith.
this... i can't even explain how i feel after reading this. I all makes so much sense now.
As a note, i still get choked up from the death scene. Hell i get misty eyed when i watch the E3 PS3 technical demo. shes so beautiful!!!!!
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:14 pm
Interesting side note on the amino art rant... not nessicarily meaning anything but I think its interesting. Aeris does not just appear with Cloud as her companion. There is also a number of pieces in which Aeris appears with Sephiroth and under positive terms. Just thought that was interesting.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:41 pm
Yes, I've been to all those sites actually. It was really hard to stand because it was all so biased. Of course, there is exceptional evidence, but most of them doesn't leave room for any possiblities for the "maybe" factor. Some of the evidence was based on their interpretation. Sorry, I wasn't here to argue, but rather give an opinon on the Tidus/Yuna and Aeris/Cloud thing. Quote: Cloud and Aerith appear together in official artwork by Yoshitaka Amano. Some people try to argue this point by saying that Amano had "nothing to do with FFVII", which is completely untrue. Amano was the character designer for all of the Final Fantasy games until Tetsuya Nomura took over for FFVII. Amano still did much of the visual design for FFVII and much of the artwork, even though Nomura's was also used. So, yes, he was involved in FFVII and his artwork is considered official. This should be obvious when looking at Amano's designs for the characters of FFVII. Many of the FFVII characters resemble the original Amano designs. Amano's artwork is still considered appropriate and significant today, as it is displayed with all of the official FF artwork, right alongside that of Nomura. In fact, the cover of the FFVII Original Soundtrack is Amano artwork of Cloud with Aerith (the same image that is the background for this page). The OST was released after FFVII. So, why use this artwork on the OST if it is not appropriate? Simple. Amano's artwork portrays exactly what was intended-- CloudxAerith. Some examples of Amano's CloudxAerith pics...  So, in case you still haven't figured it out, let me clue you in... Amano only draws canon couples. Do you see any drawings by him of SquallxQuistis, AuronxLulu, or CloudxTifa? No. Amano will also draw the antagonist and protagonist (villain and heroine) together, portraying light and dark. Some examples of Amano art with the villain and heroine together are his art of Seymour with Yuna and his art of Sephiroth with Aerith. Some people claim that Amano's art of Sephiroth with Aerith is romantic. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but since when do romantic couples threaten each other? That's right... In one of the pictures of Sephiroth with Aerith, Sephiroth is holding his sword to Aerith's throat. Yeah, watch out for the romance there, buddy... xD Amano will also draw friends together, as he drew Cloud with Red XIII. However, do you once see Amano portraying Cloud with Tifa? No. And Amano was quite aware of the changes to the storyline, including the death of Aerith and the addition of Tifa (added late in the game). However, he still did not draw Cloud and Tifa together. Tifa is portrayed alone in Amano's works, as she was in the game, and as she is in Advent Children. So, my question for you CloTis is: If Amano's art is considered canon for all of the other Final Fantasy games, then why would you claim that his art of Cloud and Aerith is not considered canon? Umm, could you direct me to an article that says that Amano only draws canon couples? People can have different interpretations as well as opinions. Unless someone told him that Cleris was the official couple, then I have no reason to believe that his artwork is proof. If I was Amano, actually drawing, I would pick Aeris and Cloud too, since Aeris has that elegance as in Amano's past drawings. (Most of his females look the same, that would be where Aeris comes in too.) Quote: Oh, and for all of you CloTis who claim that Amano's art means nothing... why, oh, why are you asking for a CloTi pic from Amano? Yup, that's right. The CloTis have made up a petition in which they pathetically beg Square for proof of Cloud and Tifa's "love". Why is this? Because they don't have any proof of their own. You can see the petition here. What is amusing in this petition is their request for a "romantic picture" by Yoshitaka Amano. Now, why would he want to do that when Cloud and Tifa are not, and were never meant to be, the true couple of FFVII? He already has art of the true couple of FFVII, in case you hadn't noticed, CloTis. Oh, that's right, it doesn't count unless he draws Cloud with Tifa, right? *Sarcasm* This is typical CloTi hypocrisy right here, folks. Amano's art of Cloud and Aerith means nothing, and yet they beg for Amano art of Cloud and Tifa to prove that Cloud and Tifa are canon? Ehh, I'm not one of the ones who signed that petition, just so you know. Like I said, it's totally based on interpretation or opinion. Unless it's official, then Amano can draw all the Cleris he wants. He's probably a Cleris fan. Pictures aren't enough evidence. And please stop attacking the poor Clotis. And just so you know, I'm keeping an open mind. Quote: Cloud and Aerith appear together in subsequent games, games that involve Cloud searching for Aerith, games that are even about the bonds of love...Final Fantasy Tactics, Cloud appears, stating he has "lost a very important thing". He also states that he is "searching for the Promised Land". This final statement is reminiscent of Cloud's statement at the end of FFVII ("......I think I'm beginning to understand. An answer from the planet... the Promised Land... I think I can meet her... there...") and proves that he is searching for Aerith in this game. He also repeats the same lines that he spoke during Aerith's death scene ("What's this? My fingers are tingling... My eyes... they're burning...") and states "I must go to that place". Aerith also appears in the game as a flower girl. Cloud stumbles across her after being summoned into that world by Ramza, who uses a Holy stone to do so. While this incarnation of Aerith doesn't recognize Cloud, she is named "Aeris" by Knave, who kidnaps her. Cloud then shows up and rescues the flower girl, furiously telling Knave to get his "filthy hands" off Aeris. It is also interesting to note that Cloud is the only male in FFT that can equip a Ribbon (And who wore a ribbon in FFVII? Aerith!) Not only that but Cloud has a new final Limit Break in FFT. That's right, no more Omnislash. This time around, Cloud has Cherry Blossoms, an elemental attack that involves flowers (And who was the flower girl of FFVII? Aerith!) What is terribly interesting about this game is that it was already being produced before FFVII was even released. So, any claims that Aerith's appearance with Cloud in this game was mere "fan service" are negated. When this game was being produced, there were no rabid CloTi fans or ClAeris fans to satisfy. They had no reason to service fans that did not yet exist. They were merely following up on the true romance in FFVII- that of Cloud and Aerith True romance......this is basically replaying how Cleris met.....though I can see how this would tie in to the Cleris coupling. But since it's a cameo, I'm kind of in the middle of it. I'm not sure whether to take it as evidence or not because I'm against cameos as evidence. (ex. Kingdom Hearts) But since FFT replays actual events (with a little twist here and there) it'd be more relevant than KH. Quote: In Final Fantasy IX, there was a soldier and a flower girl who greatly resembled Cloud and Aerith. The soldier ("Pluto Knight VII", as in Final Fantasy VII) declares that he is very lucky at having met such a beautiful flower girl in a destroyed city (here we see an allusion to Midgar, a city destroyed at the end of FFVII). The flower girl remarks, "He's cute, but he isn't exactly Mr. Personality." This statement fits Cloud perfectly, because we all know that he was not the most personable guy in the world. Also, the fact that these two can be found right outside a church in Alexandria hints to Cloud and Aerith, as they were first properly introduced in Aerith's church during FFVII. Allusions to Cloud and Aeris are perfectly resonable. I mean, they were the highlights of the game in the first part, but the allusion in IX doesn't say much about them. Quote: In Parasite Eve, Cloud and Aerith can be seen together in the official Amano art of them titled "Tranquility" (the one of them sitting together, surrounded by birds and animals-- it is actually the background for this page). This is even more proof that Amano's art is still official and significant. In Parasite Eve II, Cloud and Aerith's names appear yet again. In the laboratory, the computer there has a virus called "Fatekeeper". The anti-virus, "Cloud", can be found in a magazine called "Aeris" (Sept. issue). So, you can find "Cloud" inside "Aeris".... I'm not even gonna touch that one Interesting........but I'm still standing for what I said about Amano. And cameos all around doesn't always reflect romance. Quote: In Itadaki Street,it is still obvious which pairing is supported in this game. I have seen a shot from this game with a large crowd of characters gathered in an open area. In the middle of this area, Cloud is standing with Aerith while Tifa is standing alone, near the top. Also, in the trailers we see Cloud walking with Aerith and Squall walking with Rinoa. Very interesting... I was also told, by a friend who is currently playing Itadaki Street, that Cloud and Aerith are shown in the opening of the game and are, in fact, the first Final Fantasy characters shown. I recently downloaded the opening of IS and saw for myself. During the opening, Cloud and Aerith walk together, look at the sky together, and Cloud runs after Aerith when she takes off without him. Tifa is nowhere to be seen. Not only that, but Aerith's Theme makes an appearance in this game. Tifa's Theme does not. *Sighs* Quote: Anyways, it is interesting to note that Cloud and Tifa cannot appear in any game together without some type of hint regarding Aerith. This cannot be said of Tifa in all of the games in which Cloud was paired up with Aerith. Tifa was never mentioned or alluded-to in any of the games that Cloud and Aerith appeared in alone together. NamesAerith/Aeris's name is one form of a Latin word for "air" or "cloud". "Eris" is the Greek goddess of discord and strife ("eris" also means "strife" in Greek). So, Aerith's name can be translated as "cloud" and also as "strife". This is just one more indication of the mystical connection between Cloud and Aerith. Aerith's name has other meaning as well. Her name can mean "flower", which is appropriate, since she was a flower girl. "Aerith" is also an anagram of "I Earth", signifying her relationship with the planet. Also, since "Aeris" is pronounced like "heiress", this demonstrates her role as the last Cetra and rightful heir to the planet. Tifa's name, on the other hand, is quite different. "Tiferet" is an aspect of the tree of life (along with "Sephirot"). Tiferet represents beauty (she is beautiful), balance (she is very athletic), and love (she loves Cloud). However Tiferet also symbolizes self-sacrifice to the Christian Kabbalists and the "will to carry one neighbor's cross". This refers to Tifa sacrificing her own happiness at the end of FFVII when she realizes that Cloud wishes only to be reunited with Aerith. She hangs her head in resignation, accepting that Aerith is the only one in Cloud's heart. Tifa would sacrifice anything to make Cloud happy. This includes her own happiness. Even Tifa's surname of "Lockhart" is symbolic. The two words "lock" and "hart/heart" clearly show Tifa's inability to express her feelings to anyone, especially Cloud. It also shows that Tifa keeps her emotions hidden deep within her, under tight lock and key. She puts on a facade of happiness to hide her own doubt, insecurity, and sadness. Some fans believe that Tifa's name is derived from Tiphereth, one of the Sephirah of the Kabbalah.[8] Others believe it to have been derived from the name "Tiffany." Tifa's name may have German origins. Located both on the 7th Heaven bar sign as well as the bar's welcome mat on the inside are the words, "Tyfer's Bar." The German word, "Tiefer" is pronounced roughly the same as Ti-fa. The word means "deeper." So her name's meaning would be out of the analysis unless it's proved. Quote: Aerith and Cloud are much more compatible than Tifa and CloudFirst let us look at Tifa and what she needs in a significant other. Tifa is a very tragic person. She has had many unhappy events in her life, including the death of her father at the hands of Sephiroth, the death of her mother when she was very young, the razing of Nibelheim by Sephiroth, and the destruction of Sector 7 in Midgar. Tifa is potrayed in FFVII as being very pessimistic, uncertain, and insecure. Tifa often becomes hysterical in high-pressure situations, while Aerith remains calm, supportive, and optimistic. When it comes to physical strength in the women of FFVII, Tifa is tops. However, when you look at her mental, emotional, and spiritual strength, Tifa is rock-bottom. Tifa needs a man that will support her, comfort her, and be her "hero". Are any of these things Cloud? Sorry, but no. Cloud is not the type of person to support or comfort anyone, and he certainly wasn't interested in fulfilling the promise to Tifa. In fact, Cloud is the type of person who needs someone to comfort and support him. So, in many, many ways, Tifa and Cloud are just alike. That is why a relationship between these two could just never work. They both need someone who is open with their feelings (they both hide their feelings from the world and everyone in it), someone who is sure of themselves (because they are both very unsure), someone who is mentally and emotionally strong (because they are both pretty weak in these areas). Why would Cloud open up to someone who can't open up to him? Plus, Cloud could never measure up to Tifa's expectations of him, stating, "I could never live up to being Cloud." All throughout the game, he felt as if he had let Tifa down and Tifa was constantly worrying about him or asking for help from him. Tifa truly expected too much of Cloud, which made him feel like a failure. Their relationship was just a tad unhealthy. I've heard this argument already. Over the course of the game, they go through character changes. (Like the lifestream event) Tifa states that she won't hide anything anymore. She has signifcantly got out of her weaker self in which she was fully aware of. Scenario Writer Kazushige Nojima has expressed that the dynamic of the relationship between the player and the main character in a Final Fantasy title is something that he always puts thought into, and that with Final Fantasy VII, Cloud's subdued nature led him to write scenes with the character in such a way that the players would be placed in the position of deciding for themselves what the character was thinking. This character-player dynamic is reflected by the many opportunities the player is given to choose Cloud's way of interacting with other characters in the game's story, particularly where potential romantic-interests are concerned. (pulled from an article) Nojima put thought into the love interest stuff. It's up to fans and there is no official couple. Amano's art is his own. Quote: Now, let us look at Aerith. While Aerith's life wasn't always grand, she made a point out of remaining optimistic, cheerful, and happy. Aerith was always there to support Cloud and ease his fears, letting him know that everything was okay. In terms of strength of character, emotional strength, mental strength, and spiritual strength, Aerith had enough for her and Cloud both. Cloud needs a woman like this. Someone who can help him through trying times. Someone that he can open up to. Someone he can be himself around. Aerith never let Cloud put on the "tough guy act". She took charge and got him to open up and be himself for once. With Aerith, Cloud could be just plain Cloud. With Tifa, Cloud had to be SOLDIER First Class Cloud. Are you sure Cloud was really Cloud at the time? How he acts isn't all himself. His manner of speech and behavior Aeris fully remembers. (In Maiden), but that was all Zack's because he appeared to her when she tried to remember "Cloud". Of course, Cloud took on the memories of Tifa...but they were only memories in which he's confused with. The true memories he had were locked away inside himself. He was constantly in conflict with his mind. By the end of the game, Cloud regains his sense of self, but due to the abrupt nature of the conclusion, his development as a person after the defeat of Sephiroth was left as a mystery until the Case of Tifa. Quote: Let's face facts here, people. With Aerith, Cloud was truly happy. The only time in FFVII that Cloud smiled and laughed because of one person was when he was with Aerith. And the only time in FFVII that Cloud cried was when he lost her. Aerith's love was the force that broke down the emotional barrier around Cloud. After meeting her, he began to change for the better. In fact, the only time during the game in which Cloud almost confesses his feelings to anyone is in Cosmo Canyon, when he is trying to comfort Aerith in one of her only moments of sadness. Cloud says, "But, I'm-- I mean-- we're here for you, right?" He nearly let the cat out of the bag there! Tifa said basically the same thing to Cloud under the Highwind, saying that she was all alone and had nowhere to go. Did Cloud try to comfort Tifa? No. Did Cloud say he would be there for her? No. And yet he did both of these things for Aerith. *Sighs* Unfortunately that's in your interpretation. You seem to be set on one conclusion and not open to any more. Quote: Collection of Final Fantasy art, released by Square (so, yes, it is an official product), called "The Final Fantasy Art Collection" She recently posted pictures and translations of the images from FFVII in a forum I like to visit. This collection of FFVII art is quite intriguing. All of the images of Cloud are placed directly next to Aerith. Never once is he shown next to Tifa. Tifa is always placed on a completely different row of pictures than Cloud and Aerith. Hmmm... The translations also have proven to be very pro-ClAeris. On the back of one image, Cloud is said to state, "Memories of Aerith, we've got to set her free". This is yet more proof of who Cloud was truly fighting for at the end of FFVII. There are also images from the works of Yoshitaka Amano. The title for Amano's art of Tifa is "Rhythm". The back of the card speaks of Tifa's beauty. Now, let us contrast this with one of Amano's works of Cloud holding Aerith. The title for this image is "Protection". Quite different, no? You protect the ones you love. It is that simple. ^_^ In yet another picture of Cloud holding Aerith, the title is "Calmness" and the back of the card speaks of Cloud's sadness and gentleness toward Aerith. I don't like repeating myself...... Of course the pics would depict Cloud and Aeris together since they both had the largest role in the game. Tifa had a large role too, but that was only after, when she wholly contributed to Cloud's true memories. Amano Amano Amano....... Quote: There is also a collection of CG images from FFVII. In the image of Cait Sith at the Gold Saucer, it speaks of Cloud's date with Aerith-- "A promised date that ends in a magical night". There was only one promised date in FFVII-- the date Aerith promised Cloud in return for being her protector. Still not convinced it is speaking of Aerith? Well, there is also a quote from the game included with the rest- "I think I must have seen him again, in you... But, you're different. Things are different... Cloud... I'm searching for you..." That was a line that Aerith spoke in FFVII. So, not only is Aerith the default character for the date at the Gold Saucer, it appears that her scene with Cloud is the only one being taken into account regarding the storyline She's searching for him....she notices that there is something wrong with him......but she doesn't get a chance to, only after her death. I hope you didn't forget that. The Gold Saucer event is important of course, because it gives insight to Cloud's strange behavior in which Aeris is trying to reveal. That contributes to the storyline of course. Quote: Cloud's mother described the perfect woman for Cloud"You should have... an older girlfriend, one that'll take care of you. I think that would be the prefect type for you." An older girlfriend, huh? Well, Aerith is older than Cloud. Tifa is younger. Not only that, but Aerith does take care of Cloud in a lot of ways that Tifa cannot. Tifa is always seeking help and comfort from Cloud. She is always waiting for Cloud to take care of everything for her. Aerith, on the other hand, doesn't wait for help from Cloud and is often the one to tell him exactly what he needs to hear to get him moving again. Looks like Cloud's perfect type is Aerith. Comfort? Tifa never asked for comfort. Since when did she do that? If I remember correctly, Tifa was the one who was trying to save Cloud from a predicament, in turn sacraficing herself. She never asked for comfort. She took her own comfort away to protect Cloud. About the girlfriend......Tifa took the backseat when Aeris tried to take a snap at Cloud. And Tifa takes care of Cloud in ways that Aeris cannot either. Quote: Nomura's Interviews on Aerith's deathWhat started this idea? An interview with Nomura in which he stated this: "Acually, we had only Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the director Mr. Kitase and suggested, 'Let's kill Aerith and put in Tifa' (laughs). So, now we have two heroines, and we have an event where one of them dies." First of all, Nomura never said anything about not liking Aerith's character and he sure never said anything about Tifa taking her place in Cloud's life. Secondly, this entire interview was a joke. Yep, you heard me, a joke. An interview with Game Maestro cleared it all up... Interviewer: "FFVII had a story depicting death, what with the heroine being killed by [Cloud's] old foe, Sephiroth, wasn't it?" Nomura: "Yeah. There are people who believe that I thought of the scenario where Aerith dies, and I've had some rather strong attacks from some (laughs). In a strategy guide interview the core part was left out, and only the joke bit ended up being published. I told them 'hey, that's not right', but it was too late. I suddenly became the villian of the FF staff (laughs)." So, no, actually, it was not Nomura's idea to kill off Aerith. That entire original interview is pure crap and should be tossed out. You have the truth right here from Game Maestro, which was a series of interview books dealing with several people from successful video game companies. The Nomura interview appears in Vol. 4. In yet another interview (with both Nomura and Kitase), this time with EGM, Nomura tried yet again to set the record straight: EGM: "We heard that the death of Aerith and the creation of Tifa both originated in a phone call between you two [Nomura and Kitase]...." Nomura: "It's funny, some magazine ran that story, but only the beginning and ending of it. People think that I wanted to kill off Aerith and replace her with Tifa as the main character! [Laughs] The actual conversation between Mr. Kitase and myself was very, very long. Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barret, and Aerith...." Another thing of interest in the Nomura interview contained in Game Maestro is Nomura's explanation of Aerith's death and what they wanted to accomplish by it: "To tell you the truth, FFVII's theme was 'life'. We had instructions from Mr. Sakaguchi saying, 'More than depicting life in the theme, you have to depict life and death. Anyhow you have to portray death.' With the death of a character, we wanted to have the player feel pain. So to do so, portraying the death of the heroine Aerith would be the most painful and important/heavy [on the feelings/emotions]. So, to portray death properly, it was decided that we would show Aerith's death." So, it was Sakaguchi's idea to kill off a character, and he did not specify which one. That was decided later. It is interesting to see that they wanted to make the most of the death, a death that would affect the players and the characters the greatest... and they picked Aerith, the heroine of FFVII. So, basically, this just sunk one of the CloTis favorite arguments, that Nomura "hated Aerith" and "killed her off to get rid of her because she was weak" and that Nomura wanted to "sub Tifa in for Aerith to be Cloud's girlfriend". It is all nonsense and has been proven wrong. In fact, these interviews show just how important Aerith's death was meant to be, for all of you who missed that point. And they also show that Tifa was never meant to take Aerith's place as the heroine of the game OR as Cloud's love interest. In fact, Cloud and Aerith were a couple before Tifa was even created. For the record, I didn't think that Normura hated Aeris at all. Just because Cleris was the intended couple to begin with, doesn't mean that they are now. Stories can change....people's minds can change. The theme of FFVII is life, but it doesn't really pertain to how Cleris is a couple by default does it? Of course Cloud would show grief over her death. She was close to him, but love or not is based on your interpretations. Quote: Quote: I also want to point out to all of you sick freaks that laugh when Aerith dies- you just missed the entire point of the game! The point of the game is life and death. Aerith's death was hugely important. It was meant to convey feelings of loss and pain. But, you totally missed that, didn't you? Way to go- you completely overlooked everything that the creators of FFVII were trying to express! Proud of yourself, are you? Oooookay. *Looks around* I wonder if I'm the only Cloti here that has to hear this. Quote: I would also like to point out a quote from that interview with EGM... EGM: "Which female character in FFVII is your personal favorite?" Nomura: "[Laughs] I'm not really interested in any superdeformed females." That is for all of you dumbasses who actually buy into all of that "self-insertion" bull. Tifa is not even Nomura's favorite character. For those of you who haven't a clue what I am talking about... well, there exists an essay that claims that Nomura liked to place himself in the position of the heroes of the game and basically goes on to say that he contrived Tifa from a wet dream. This, therefore, makes CloTi canon. o_0 Yes, I know, it is completely absurd, not to mention lame and retarded. I never believed any of it to begin with, because it was just some flake making up nonsense. She had no proof whatsoever and made an a** out of herself making assumptions that were so far-fetched the other CloTis laughed at her. Please control your anger......it's quite offensive to me as well. So what if Tifa isn't Nomura's favorite character? This does not the possible CLoti relationship. Quote: Cloud’s GriefThe effects of grief can also have the effect of changing a person’s ideals and values. After the death of Aerith, Cloud becomes more actively involved in dealing with members of the group and wanting to save the Planet, as well as taking revenge on Sepiroth. Throughout Disk One, Cloud’s primary concern was revenge on Sephiroth, but his attitude seemed to change to fighting more for his friends and the planet in Disks Two and Three. This can be seen as a sign that the death of Aerith had an effect on his persona, making him realize the importance of saving the Planet, its inhabitants, and his friends. Hate to point this out but, no duh. Any death of a friend would spur you on to take their place and finish what they started. This part gives me more of an impression of an obligation to fill. Quote: However, this isn’t to say that Cloud showed no grief whatsoever. In the latter parts of the second disk, Cloud starts to reflect on his past with Aerith and his memories with her. He also shows some signs of hopelessness and depression. Both of these symptoms are ways of dealing with grief that Cloud expressed in Final Fantasy VII. For example, Cloud says this after coming back down from space: Cloud “I've... been thinking too. About the universe... planet... ocean. How wide and big... No matter where I go and what I do it won't change a thing.” Cloud expresses his hopelessness about the situation he’s in. This is a common sign of depression that can be brought on by other emotions, such as grief for a loved one. We see this yet again at the City of the Ancients with Bugenhagen: Cloud "...This is the end." (He looks up, shrugging.) "Aerith had the White Materia..." "But when Aerith died, it fell from the altar..." (He shakes his head sadly.) "That's why...... this is the end." Yet again Cloud is showing hopelessness and depression about the situation at hand. Earlier on in the game, he wouldn’t have given up on their chances so easily, but his changed attitude and feelings of depression have caused these slumps into hopelessness. However, Cloud also showed healthier signs of grief in the form of remembrance upon his return to the City of the Ancients: Cloud “But, it cost her her life... her future..." "I'm sorry... Aerith. I should have figured this out sooner." "...You left us without saying a word..." "It was all so sudden, I couldn't think..." "That's why it took so long for me to find out." "But, Aerith... I understand now. Aerith... I'll do the rest.” Cloud is reflecting on his past with Aerith in this scene, which is a healthy form of dealing with grief. Thus Cloud is dealing with his grief over Aerith’s death. Cloud also expresses his grief about Aerith’s death in other scenes, like when they go to visit Bugenhagen in Cosmo Canyon: (Cloud looks down) Cloud "I remember Aerith a lot. No... not that. You haven't remembered. You haven't forgotten. That's not it... How would you say it... Aerith was right there all along. Right by our side. She was so close, we couldn't see her. What Aerith did... The words she left behind..." Cloud says that he’s been remembering Aerith a lot, so it’s obvious that he’s been thinking of her even though he hasn’t expressed it until now. In fact, Cloud speaks 53 lines of remembrance for Aerith over the course of Disks Two and Three, which is fully a third of the amount of lines that he speaks to Tifa over the same period of time I can understand why Cloud would talk of Aeris. It's only obvious that you speak of a deceased person. Me, I've lost someone very important to me. Over the course of my life, I would talk with my siblings. "I wish he was still here with us....." "Remember the time...." "He would've wanted this...." The theme of life....by Aeris' death, we know the importance of this theme. Can't say if this would really be romantic. The one close to me was a good friend, as well as father-like figure to me. Quote: Just before the Last Night Under the Highwind Scene, Cloud says this to everyone: Cloud "I think we all are fighting for ourselves." "For ourselves... and that someone... something... whatever it is, that's important to us." "That's what we're fighting for." "That's why we keep up this battle for the planet." ..... Cloud "I know why I'm fighting." "I'm fighting to save the planet, and that's that." "But besides that, there's something personal too..." "A very personal memory that I have." The reason that Cloud is fighting to save the Planet is “a very personal memory” that he has. This “very personal memory” is someone or something important to Cloud. Is that “very personal memory” more likely to be Aerith or Tifa? After all, Tifa is not a memory… she is standing right there on the bridge of the Highwind as Cloud says this to everyone. Cloud has also said in Cosmo Canyon that he remembers Aerith a lot, so she is often present in his memories. It may very well be that Aerith is that “very personal memory” that he’s fighting for. At the point when his pursuit of Sephiroth was finally over, and Cloud would be forced to deal with his grief for Aerith’s death, he no longer needed to. He got an answer from the Planet and knew that Aerith was not lost to him, that her death did not mean the end of their lives together. Thus, Cloud no longer needed to grieve, since he could look forward to being reunited with Aerith. Cloud “I think I can meet her... there.” Aerith's Death SceneAs Aerith leaves for the Forgotten City through the Sleeping Forest, Cloud tries to run after her. Why would Cloud try to run after Aerith for any reason other than wanting to be with her? Some people say that he's running after Aerith only because he wants to protect her, or that he does it out of concern. However, Sephiroth hasn't threatened to stop her yet, so why would Cloud be concerned about her safety? Aerith demonstrated familiarity with her surroundings, told Cloud the Forest's name, and said where she was going, which shows even less reason to be concerned. The only apparent reason that Cloud tries to follow Aerith is because he doesn't want to be without her. Once the group finds Aerith within the Forgotten City, look at what Cloud does: In your interpretation. Quote: The others move as if to follow, but Cloud waves them away. Cloud waves the other party members away in the same way that Vincent waves the others away when they find Lucrecia under the waterfall. When they find Aerith in the Forgotten City, Cloud makes the same gesture, which can only mean that he wants to see her alone. Sephiroth has yet to take control of him, so Cloud is waving the others away of his accord. Typically, that gesture is used when the character waving the others away has the closest relationship to the character being approached. Cloud's use of that gesture indicates that he is closer to her than any of the other characters, and that he wanted to see Aerith alone. [Cloud] leaps across the other columns and reaches the shrine. He steps onto the stairs leading up to the glass platform where Aerith is kneeling. The screen goes red for a moment, and Cloud shakes his head. (He reaches for his sword... then shakes his head again. He stands before Aerith. She does not move. He faces away and draws his sword. She still does not move. He turns to face her, lifting his sword above his head. She still does not move. Cloud brings down his sword.) Cid "Cloud!" Tifa "Stop!" (Cloud shakes his head and steps back.) Cloud "Ugh... what are you making me do?" This is the only time in the course of the game that Cloud is able to fight off Sephiroth’s will, and he does it for the sake of Aerith. The others call out to Cloud to stop, but is that what actually stops him? They also call out to Cloud at the Reunion to stop him from giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth, but it doesn't stop him there. Even when it meant the fate of the world, Cloud was unable to fight Sephiroth's will at the Reunion despite the others calling out for him to stop. Cloud was also unable to stop himself from giving the Black Materia to Sephiroth in the Temple of Ancients. The only time Cloud is able to fight off Sephiroth’s will is when he has to do it for the sake of Aerith. Your facts here are a bit false. Sure, Sephiroth tried to make Cloud kill Aeris and he only broke out of it when they stopped him because why woul dhe kill a friend? Also, the time of the black materia, Cloud completely gave in to his "puppet" state. He accepted his fate and therefore did not break out of it. Quote: (Aerith kneels in the small shrine. We see now that she is praying. She looks up for the first time and sees Cloud. She smiles at him, beautifully.) Notice that Aerith smiles directly at Cloud, and not at the others. Cloud "...Aerith." (He gently shakes her body.) Cloud "This can't be real!" Sepiroth "Do not worry. Soon the girl will become part of the Planet's energy." Sephiroth "All that is left is to go North. The 'Promised Land' waits for me over the snowy fields." Sephiroth "There I will become a new being by uniting with the planet. As will this girl...” Cloud "...Shut up." (Cloud bows his head closer to Aerith, trembling. He abruptly looks up to Sephiroth.) Cloud "The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing." (He slowly turns his head back to Aerith's sleeping face.) Cloud "Aerith is gone." Cloud "Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry..." (He holds her body close to his own, bows his head over her, his shoulders heaving as though he is crying.) Some people claim that Cloud is not crying here, yet it is quite obvious that he is. His shoulders heave as he holds her body close to his own, which can only mean that he is crying. Where else in the story does Cloud express this depth of emotion? Cloud "What about us... what are WE supposed to do?" Cloud is speaking here of he and Aerith in the first person plural, the same way that couples do. Some people argue that Cloud does not mean he and Aerith as he says this. They interpret this phrase to mean that Cloud is asking how the group is going to fight Sephiroth without Aerith, since she told Cloud in the Sleeping Forest that only a survivor of the Cetra can do it. However, this interpretation doesn't fit the context of the passage at all. Cloud is in the midst of grief and shock over her death, while he is clutching her body close to him with his head bowed over her. He is in the midst of talking about his own pain and the loss of Aerith. Why would Cloud suddenly switch topic to ask how the group is supposed to fight Sephiroth without Aerith? Cloud has just told Sephiroth to shut up, and he’s just told Sephiroth that his “stupid plan [doesn’t] mean a thing”, which shows absolutely no fear or hopelessness or despair about fighting Sephiroth. Why would Cloud switch so suddenly from showing his anger at Sephiroth to a display of hopelessness and fear about how they are supposed to defeat him without Aerith? Signs of grief include wondering how to go on without someone you love, and the immediacy of death results in shock and denial so that the dead person is referred to in the present tense as though they are still alive. Look at what Cloud says next: (He gently rests her on the floor.) Cloud "What about my pain?" (He trembles.) Cloud "My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!" Again, the context of the passage shows that Cloud is speaking of his pain over her death, and a random comment about how they will defeat Sephiroth simply does not fit the context. The only interpretation which fits the context of this passage is for Cloud to be speaking about he and Aerith, and wondering how he is going to live his life without her. Later, Cloud again shows no fear or hopelessness about fighting Sephiroth without Aerith in one of the spiral shaped houses: Cloud "That's why I should quit this journey." Cloud "Before I do something terrible." (He raises one fist. He is shaking.) Cloud "But I am going." Cloud "He destroyed my hometown five years ago, killed Aerith, and is now trying to destroy the Planet. I'll never forgive... Sephiroth." (He stops shaking but does not lower his fist.) Cloud "I... I must go on." Cloud is still expressing his pain over her death and shows no hopelessness or fear about fighting Sephiroth without Aerith. It is illogical to interpret that one line as expressing such fears when Cloud makes no reference within the entire Death Scene to their hopelessness in fighting Sephiroth without Aerith. The only interpretation that fits within the context of the pain and grief expressed by Cloud at the Death Scene is for him to be talking about he and Aerith, in the first person plural… as a couple. It is in that moment that we know just how much Aerith meant to Cloud. [alot more but I'll leave you with that for now] Of course he expresses pain. Whether romantic or not, I leave in up to interpretation. I'm well aware of the amount of evidence and sounds very convincing, especially in some parts....but we're all biased here aren't we? It's not that I'm so against Cleris, it's just Cloud's personality at the time. I can't say the couple would be 100% canon. You see, the fact is Zack's personality dominated Cloud. Cloud is generally a dull character, with not much character development after FFVII. Unfortunately, all the essays I've read about how Aeris said that Zack was no longer her love I find irrelevant now. (Since Crisis Core and the Maiden) Aeris still may hold those feelings and have different feeling towards Cloud. (Maybe of a mother or something.)
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:49 pm
ok just to clarify these have not been written by me ^^ so sorry if they may seem harsh I'm sorry because I didnt edit them they are written by that original person and editing their statements wouldnt be right
anyway I've read your responses
I just wanna comment on a few points:
crisis core is before ffvii so of course there will be zeris because they were dating : D
Okay, first of all, Cloud may have confused some of his memories with Zack, but he did not "become" Zack. In fact, you will see that Zack and Cloud are exact opposites (Zack was a "ladies man", very outgoing; Cloud is introverted and cold). So, how can you say Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud, when he was there all along? The only memories Cloud confused with Zack's are the memories regarding SOLDIER. Cloud never "became" Zack
I never did understand the argument about Cloud in Disk One not being the "real" Cloud, and that during this time period he was more or less Zack. Many Cloud x Tifa supporters use the fact that Cloud had part of his past mixed up while he knew Aerith to say that Cloud was not allowed to be true to himself. The funny thing about this argument, however, is that memories and character are two very different aspects of a person. Character makes a person who they are and Cloud confused some of his memories with Zack, not his character.
Proof? Zack was more of an outgoing and caring character when you see him in the few scenes of Nibelheim and when he and Cloud escape to Midgar on the truck. Zack, for example, directly gave friendship to Cloud in which Zack talked to him, kind of joked with him, and helped him when Cloud was hurt (Escape from Nibelheim Sequence). Cloud's character is one completely different from that shown by Zack. Cloud, when the player first meets him in the beginning of the game, is perceived as a cold, antisocial, and uncaring person who only wants money and worries about the well-being of no one.
On the other hand, Zack is described by Aerith in Gongaga as being and I quote her in saying, "he loved women, a real ladies man." Cloud seems to be particularly uninterested in this specific area which can be shown from his less than enthusiastic responses to his mother's discussion concerning him getting a girlfriend in his flashback of the visit he had with her in Nibelheim.
As shown in the truck on the way to Nibeheim in the Kalm flashback sequence, Zack was talkative and caring asking how everyone was doing and if Cloud was alright with his motion sickness. Cloud in the beginning of the game basically only says what needs to be and holds a overall, "I don't care" and "It's not my problem" attitude.
If ANYTHING what only can be seen is that Cloud and Zack's person-alities are almost completely contrasting. Cloud and Zack's personalities are in no way anything alike when compared with what information is given to us in the game. So then it can be concluded that the only thing that Cloud has inherited from Zack was some of his memories and gestures as well. The real reason that most people see Cloud before he "finds himself" in the Lifestream as the "fake" Cloud is because some of his memories are mixed up and confused.
This in itself brings up an interesting topic, that being does the past really make us who we are? This can be answered more by opinion, yet the answer to this question doesn't quite address the real issue. This issue being that just because Cloud did not know the truth about a certain part of his past does that mean he was truly incapable of loving another.
Remember that Cloud only had a certain part of his past mixed up, that being the Nibelheim experience five years ago and his involvement in SOLDIER. Cloud remembered that he was born in Nibelheim and not Gongaga, like Zack was. Cloud also remembered bits and pieces of some conversations he had with his mother in Nibelheim as well as a lengthy letter that he read in Tifa’s room word per word.
Because of this I fail to see how Cloud's past in SOLDIER and the Nibelheim incident five years ago can affect Cloud’s relationship with Aerith. This was the past which had nothing to do with Aerith, she was the present. Tifa however was a part of this mixed up past. If that in itself holds a deeper meaning who's to say, that's more of the gamer's opinion.
An argument commonly heard is that Aerith was only interested in Cloud for the “Zack” in him. Now it is very understandable to believe this once the game progresses a bit, but in the end it is found this is not the case for two reasons:
1. Aerith realizes that Cloud and Zack are two very different people
We know Aerith definitely sees that Cloud is not Zack and how the two really contrast greatly in character, but once this is discovered is Aerith no longer interested in Cloud? The answer is no, which leads to the second reason:
2. Aerith and Zack’s relationship was either not as strong or not as important to Aerith as most gamers take it to be. This is a controversial point among gamers, but there is actual evidence to support this idea
Zack is first mentioned while Aerith and Cloud are sitting on top of the cat slide in Sector 6 talking to one another. Zack was not mentioned by name, but by his relation to Aerith. Here is the conversation.
Aerith "What rank were you?"
Cloud "Rank?"
Aerith "You know, in SOLDIER."
Cloud "Oh, I was...First Class."
Aerith "Just the same as him."
Cloud "The same as who?"
Aerith "My first boyfriend."
Cloud "You were... serious?"
Aerith "No. But I liked him for a while."
Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"
Aerith "It doesn't really matter."
This little conversation tells a lot about her present feelings for Zack at the time. When Aerith first asks what rank Cloud is, it shows how she has already noticed some similarity between the two, which can be seen from her response to his answer.
Aerith "Just the same as him."
It shows how she is making a comparison between the two and remembering certain things about Zack through Cloud. Cloud then goes on to ask who she is speaking of.
Aerith "My first boyfriend."
This is the first time we find out that Aerith and Zack were a couple at some time before the game actually begins. We however are not given much information about it, such as how long it lasted. Since she seems to speak so openly about it, her personality and mood during this period shows that the whole discussion is more or less everyday conversation. Aerith is a very emotional character, so if this relationship was so serious why wouldn’t she show more emotion rather than just sitting on the slide and talking like it was just one of many memories. Wait? Was it serious?
Aerith "No. But I liked him for a while."
Cloud openly asks if she and Zack were seriously involved, and she flat out says no. Kind of a personal question, but her answer doesn’t make it seem so. She even shakes her head quickly as if to emphasis this. Actions and words both speak loud in this case. Cloud then continues seeing she isn’t deeply hurt in discussing the topic.
Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?"
This part I find most interesting. If Aerith was so obsessed with Zack, wouldn’t she go crazy at hearing this? Cloud says that he may have known Zack. Now at this point in the game, we don’t know what is to come. All we really know, along with Aerith, is that Cloud could very well know this mysterious SOLDIER. Therefore, if Cloud may have known Zack, then he also might be able to tell what happened to him, what they had done together in SOLDIER, and above all else to Aerith WHERE ZACK MIGHT BE!!! Yes we later find out Zack died, but Aerith does not know this yet. So shouldn’t Aerith be jumping for joy with this new hope of finding her love again? But, what’s this? What does she say?
Aerith "It doesn't really matter."
Funny, how Aerith could have told Cloud Zack’s name and perhaps with his help found Zack so she could be with him. Remember again that Aerith doesn’t know that Zack is dead. Wouldn’t she even want to try if she still cared about him? Doesn’t seem like it, does it? So does this mean that Zack didn’t mean as much to Aerith in a romantic way as we thought he did?
Not enough for some people to believe? Alright, let’s continue on in the game. The next scene in which Aerith openly talks about Zack with Cloud is at Gongaga, should you choose to have her in your party. If you go to their house, Zack’s parents talk about Zack and ask Aerith if she was the girlfriend Zack talked about in one of his letters. She says that she is not, then leaves the house. Cloud has the option to go and speak with her. Here is a part of their conversation:
(They speak about Zack and how he was Aerith’s boyfriend and all)
Cloud "Strange, there aren't that many who make First Class, but I've never heard of him."
Aerith "That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing."
It’s all in the past now. Doesn’t that confirm what I’ve said before? Right there in that statement Aerith says that she has moved on from whatever relationship she and Zack had. The dialogue continues:
Cloud "Missing?"
Aerith "I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back."
Aerith "He loved women, a real lady's man. He probably found someone else...”
Aerith "Hey? What's wrong?"
After saying this, if Aerith was indeed very depressed over the whole Zack thing, wouldn’t she have been quiet afterward or shown some sort of emotion? Instead she asks Cloud what’s wrong, indicating that nothing is upsetting about this conversation. It’s rather funny how she bounces back so quickly after being very depressed over Zack. Anyway, the conversation continues:
Choice Poor guy
(jealous... envious...) <----{If you pick this one all Aerith does is tease Cloud for being jealous of Zack. Doesn’t this show how she distinguishes between the two and doesn’t see them as being the same? Just a thought, but that is not the focus so we will choose the option in Cloud x Tifa favor just for kicks}
Aerith "I don't really mind that I haven't heard from him. But I feel for his parents."
If she was in love with Zack, wouldn’t she mind? This confirms what I have said before. Good ol`Aerith is always feeling for others. She feels bad that his parents have been suffering over their son being missing. However, she doesn’t feel bad that she is not able to be with him because he is missing. Aerith is worried about his well being, but this would indicate more of a friendship type relationship (if even that) that she most likely now holds toward Zack.
The big question concerning all that’s been said is probably why doesn’t Aerith find or think that it matters, as she has said a couple of times now. The answer is simple. She doesn’t find it important to dwell in the past. I remember once reading an interview with Hironobou Sakaguchi in which he said Aerith is basically the symbolism of life and living for the future. This is pretty apparent, what does Aerith always talk about? The future. She says that one day she will get out of Midgar, listen to the planet and go find her Promised Land. Aerith tells about how much she would like to take a ride on the Highwind sometime. In the Temple of the Ancients, she says that later the group will look back at all these hard times and laugh. Lastly, she says she would come back when it was all over.
In the game, whose main theme is LIFE, the personification of it is displayed through Aerith. It’s the way the developers personally start to involve the player with the theme. Many complain about Aerith’s personality being too happy and lively, but her personality was designed this way because of the life and hope for the future she displays. Zack represents the past and death. Aerith character which always looks toward the future would be breaking her symbolism by dwelling in the past and clinging to Zack.
We’ve shown that Aerith realizes Cloud and Zack are not the same person. In the beginning, it is logical to believe that Aerith was initially attracted to Cloud because his gestures and SOLDIER background reminded her of Zack. This, however, does not mean she was obsessed with Zack. That happens to be far from the truth, as I have already shown. It was something that simply caught her attention, and most likely reminded her of Zack initially, which led to wonder and curiosity. It resulted in her wanting to know more about Cloud.
I remember one Cloud x Tifa supporter saying that Aerith never showed interest in getting to know Cloud. Sure she does! Think back to Cloud’s explanation of the Nibelheim incident in Kalm. When he goes into his old home where his mother lives, we see this dialogue:
Cloud "This is... my house. It has nothing to do with that incident five years ago."
Barret "Yo wait, I wanna hear."
Aerith "Me too! It's been a long time, right?"
True, Barret shows interest in Cloud’s personal past and the rest of the group perhaps does as well. Aerith, in this scene, shows a great interest in Cloud’s (not Zack’s) past. She gets excited (“Me too!”) and kind of pushes him on to discuss it (“It’s been a long time, right?”). Another example can be taken from what Marlene tells Cloud in Aerith’s house after Aerith is kidnapped.
Marlene "Guess what? Guess what? Aerith was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!"
Aerith wants to know what kind of character he (Cloud not Zack) has. It’s apparent she has an interest in Cloud at this point and wants to know more about him. Why else would she be asking Marlene about him? If she thought he was Zack or whatever that concept is, wouldn’t she already know Zack good enough, and therefore have no need to ask what kind of person he is? So how do we know for sure that Aerith sees Cloud, and not Zack? The answer is clearly stated in this last scene I post which occurs in the gondola on Cloud and Aerith’s date.
Aerith ".........first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture...I think I must have seen him again, in you..."
Aerith "But you're different."
Aerith "Things are different..."
Aerith "Cloud...I'm searching for you..."
Cloud "............?"
Aerith "I want to meet you."
Cloud "But I'm right here."
Aerith (I know, I know... what I mean is...) "I want to meet..... you."
Just like she said, she wanted to meet him... Cloud.
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:53 pm
samuraioni OMG, Mien Gott, Dios Mio, Kami-Sama! Ok, that got that out of the way. This is my thesis for all that i believe in for cloud/aerith. this... i can't even explain how i feel after reading this. I all makes so much sense now. As a note, i still get choked up from the death scene. Hell i get misty eyed when i watch the E3 PS3 technical demo. shes so beautiful!!!!!
I really want a ps3 and ffvii for it
but thats a dream that wont come true...any time soon
the death scene is of course emotional crying
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:13 pm
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:55 pm
WOAHNESS eek I got accepted to the guild! its time to go clerising!
*dances in the rain*
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:57 pm
omg janie!!! you're finally here!
to all those who dunno this is jane a fellow cxa fan!
and this thread is never gonna die : D! sadly yuu hasnt been on in awhile
neither have I! school is a pain in the butt
but anyways
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:05 pm
sorry I just am getting the hang of this site. I got alot to learn! so theres quite a few things I wanna ask other users about cleris when they log on! but girl I gotta go for now!
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:07 pm
waah seriously! crying ok leave will a pic then <3
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Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:11 pm
.[.pink.spider.]. ok just to clarify these have not been written by me ^^ so sorry if they may seem harsh I'm sorry because I didnt edit them they are written by that original person and editing their statements wouldnt be right
anyway I've read your responses
Oh, sorry about that. sweatdrop Quote: I just wanna comment on a few points: crisis core is before ffvii so of course there will be zeris because they were dating : D Yes, of course Crisis Core will have Zeris, but I just wanted to point out that their relationship was deeper and that she really loved him. Quote: Okay, first of all, Cloud may have confused some of his memories with Zack, but he did not "become" Zack. In fact, you will see that Zack and Cloud are exact opposites (Zack was a "ladies man", very outgoing; Cloud is introverted and cold). So, how can you say Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud, when he was there all along? The only memories Cloud confused with Zack's are the memories regarding SOLDIER. Cloud never "became" Zack That's true....but Cloud's true character is shy and weak. He still wasn't himself in the beginning of the game though. Cloud kept his true self locked up and the memories he kept dear to him. (Lifestream event comes to play) Basically he created his own character, mixing Zack's behavior and memories as well and mixing memories of Tifa. Aeris didn't get to know "Cloud". (The Maiden) Quote: I never did understand the argument about Cloud in Disk One not being the "real" Cloud, and that during this time period he was more or less Zack. Many Cloud x Tifa supporters use the fact that Cloud had part of his past mixed up while he knew Aerith to say that Cloud was not allowed to be true to himself. The funny thing about this argument, however, is that memories and character are two very different aspects of a person. Character makes a person who they are and Cloud confused some of his memories with Zack, not his character. Cloud's true character was locked up. In Case of Tifa and Advent Children, you start to see some character development actually go through him. Cloud wasn't Cloud since the "real Cloud" was hidden (Insert Lifestream event). When Cloud fell into the church, the voice that asked him if he was okay was his inner self, "Cloud". (Oh gosh this is just going back and forth.... xd ) Also, other times "Cloud" spoke to Cloud was in Junon when "Cloud" asked about Tifa as well as the Honeybee Inn. It shows that the present Cloud really wasn't himself. Not only was his memories wrecked, but so was his action/behavior. So yeah....When it comes to Aeris, they didn't get to know each other. Quote: Proof? Zack was more of an outgoing and caring character when you see him in the few scenes of Nibelheim and when he and Cloud escape to Midgar on the truck. Zack, for example, directly gave friendship to Cloud in which Zack talked to him, kind of joked with him, and helped him when Cloud was hurt (Escape from Nibelheim Sequence). Cloud's character is one completely different from that shown by Zack. Cloud, when the player first meets him in the beginning of the game, is perceived as a cold, antisocial, and uncaring person who only wants money and worries about the well-being of no one. On the other hand, Zack is described by Aerith in Gongaga as being and I quote her in saying, "he loved women, a real ladies man." Cloud seems to be particularly uninterested in this specific area which can be shown from his less than enthusiastic responses to his mother's discussion concerning him getting a girlfriend in his flashback of the visit he had with her in Nibelheim. As shown in the truck on the way to Nibeheim in the Kalm flashback sequence, Zack was talkative and caring asking how everyone was doing and if Cloud was alright with his motion sickness. Cloud in the beginning of the game basically only says what needs to be and holds a overall, "I don't care" and "It's not my problem" attitude. True, Cloud did show a "It's not my problem" attitude, but he believed to be Zack, the one who fiercely looked up to Sephiroth with a "cool" personality. Though he didn't act this way in the beginning of the game, he believed himself to be that person. Quote: If ANYTHING what only can be seen is that Cloud and Zack's person-alities are almost completely contrasting. Cloud and Zack's personalities are in no way anything alike when compared with what information is given to us in the game. So then it can be concluded that the only thing that Cloud has inherited from Zack was some of his memories and gestures as well. The real reason that most people see Cloud before he "finds himself" in the Lifestream as the "fake" Cloud is because some of his memories are mixed up and confused. This in itself brings up an interesting topic, that being does the past really make us who we are? This can be answered more by opinion, yet the answer to this question doesn't quite address the real issue. This issue being that just because Cloud did not know the truth about a certain part of his past does that mean he was truly incapable of loving another. Remember that Cloud only had a certain part of his past mixed up, that being the Nibelheim experience five years ago and his involvement in SOLDIER. Cloud remembered that he was born in Nibelheim and not Gongaga, like Zack was. Cloud also remembered bits and pieces of some conversations he had with his mother in Nibelheim as well as a lengthy letter that he read in Tifa’s room word per word. Some of Cloud's memories were mixed in with Tifa's as well as Zack's due to the Jenova cells, so he would know that he was born in Nibelheim. The only memories he kept were his encounter with his mother, the Nibelheim incident, his feelings for Tifa, and the promise. (Lifestream) Quote: Because of this I fail to see how Cloud's past in SOLDIER and the Nibelheim incident five years ago can affect Cloud’s relationship with Aerith. This was the past which had nothing to do with Aerith, she was the present. Tifa however was a part of this mixed up past. If that in itself holds a deeper meaning who's to say, that's more of the gamer's opinion. An argument commonly heard is that Aerith was only interested in Cloud for the “Zack” in him. Now it is very understandable to believe this once the game progresses a bit, but in the end it is found this is not the case for two reasons: 1. Aerith realizes that Cloud and Zack are two very different people We know Aerith definitely sees that Cloud is not Zack and how the two really contrast greatly in character, but once this is discovered is Aerith no longer interested in Cloud? The answer is no, which leads to the second reason: 2. Aerith and Zack’s relationship was either not as strong or not as important to Aerith as most gamers take it to be. This is a controversial point among gamers, but there is actual evidence to support this idea Zack is first mentioned while Aerith and Cloud are sitting on top of the cat slide in Sector 6 talking to one another. Zack was not mentioned by name, but by his relation to Aerith. Here is the conversation. Aerith "What rank were you?" Cloud "Rank?" Aerith "You know, in SOLDIER." Cloud "Oh, I was...First Class." Aerith "Just the same as him." Cloud "The same as who?" Aerith "My first boyfriend." Cloud "You were... serious?" Aerith "No. But I liked him for a while." Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?" Aerith "It doesn't really matter." This little conversation tells a lot about her present feelings for Zack at the time. When Aerith first asks what rank Cloud is, it shows how she has already noticed some similarity between the two, which can be seen from her response to his answer. Aerith "Just the same as him." It shows how she is making a comparison between the two and remembering certain things about Zack through Cloud. Cloud then goes on to ask who she is speaking of. Aerith "My first boyfriend." This is the first time we find out that Aerith and Zack were a couple at some time before the game actually begins. We however are not given much information about it, such as how long it lasted. Since she seems to speak so openly about it, her personality and mood during this period shows that the whole discussion is more or less everyday conversation. Aerith is a very emotional character, so if this relationship was so serious why wouldn’t she show more emotion rather than just sitting on the slide and talking like it was just one of many memories. Wait? Was it serious? Aerith "No. But I liked him for a while." Cloud openly asks if she and Zack were seriously involved, and she flat out says no. Kind of a personal question, but her answer doesn’t make it seem so. She even shakes her head quickly as if to emphasis this. Actions and words both speak loud in this case. Cloud then continues seeing she isn’t deeply hurt in discussing the topic. Yes, but one might say that she is sad. Of course, since the characters are basically lego-looking people, you can't see their emotions. Based on the words we are to assume that she really got over Zack. Of course, it's perfectly reasonable. But I'll just leave it at that. Quote: Cloud "I probably knew him. What was his name?" This part I find most interesting. If Aerith was so obsessed with Zack, wouldn’t she go crazy at hearing this? Cloud says that he may have known Zack. Now at this point in the game, we don’t know what is to come. All we really know, along with Aerith, is that Cloud could very well know this mysterious SOLDIER. Therefore, if Cloud may have known Zack, then he also might be able to tell what happened to him, what they had done together in SOLDIER, and above all else to Aerith WHERE ZACK MIGHT BE!!! Yes we later find out Zack died, but Aerith does not know this yet. So shouldn’t Aerith be jumping for joy with this new hope of finding her love again? But, what’s this? What does she say? Aerith "It doesn't really matter." Funny, how Aerith could have told Cloud Zack’s name and perhaps with his help found Zack so she could be with him. Remember again that Aerith doesn’t know that Zack is dead. Wouldn’t she even want to try if she still cared about him? Doesn’t seem like it, does it? So does this mean that Zack didn’t mean as much to Aerith in a romantic way as we thought he did? Well, since she did say that Zack was such a "ladies' man", she might've said that "it doesn't really matter" since she believed that he went off with someone else. It might not sound romantic, but it might sound "heart-broken". Then again, Aeris is quite a cheerful character and no on can really make those assumptions. Quote: Not enough for some people to believe? Alright, let’s continue on in the game. The next scene in which Aerith openly talks about Zack with Cloud is at Gongaga, should you choose to have her in your party. If you go to their house, Zack’s parents talk about Zack and ask Aerith if she was the girlfriend Zack talked about in one of his letters. She says that she is not, then leaves the house. Cloud has the option to go and speak with her. Here is a part of their conversation: (They speak about Zack and how he was Aerith’s boyfriend and all) Cloud "Strange, there aren't that many who make First Class, but I've never heard of him." Aerith "That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing." It’s all in the past now. Doesn’t that confirm what I’ve said before? Right there in that statement Aerith says that she has moved on from whatever relationship she and Zack had. The dialogue continues: Cloud "Missing?" Aerith "I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back." Aerith "He loved women, a real lady's man. He probably found someone else...” Aerith "Hey? What's wrong?" After saying this, if Aerith was indeed very depressed over the whole Zack thing, wouldn’t she have been quiet afterward or shown some sort of emotion? Instead she asks Cloud what’s wrong, indicating that nothing is upsetting about this conversation. It’s rather funny how she bounces back so quickly after being very depressed over Zack. Anyway, the conversation continues: Choice Poor guy (jealous... envious...) <----{If you pick this one all Aerith does is tease Cloud for being jealous of Zack. Doesn’t this show how she distinguishes between the two and doesn’t see them as being the same? Just a thought, but that is not the focus so we will choose the option in Cloud x Tifa favor just for kicks} Aerith "I don't really mind that I haven't heard from him. But I feel for his parents." If she was in love with Zack, wouldn’t she mind? This confirms what I have said before. Good ol`Aerith is always feeling for others. She feels bad that his parents have been suffering over their son being missing. However, she doesn’t feel bad that she is not able to be with him because he is missing. Aerith is worried about his well being, but this would indicate more of a friendship type relationship (if even that) that she most likely now holds toward Zack. The big question concerning all that’s been said is probably why doesn’t Aerith find or think that it matters, as she has said a couple of times now. The answer is simple. She doesn’t find it important to dwell in the past. I remember once reading an interview with Hironobou Sakaguchi in which he said Aerith is basically the symbolism of life and living for the future. This is pretty apparent, what does Aerith always talk about? The future. She says that one day she will get out of Midgar, listen to the planet and go find her Promised Land. Aerith tells about how much she would like to take a ride on the Highwind sometime. In the Temple of the Ancients, she says that later the group will look back at all these hard times and laugh. Lastly, she says she would come back when it was all over. The context certainly does say that she really got over him. But people are able to say that after someone has been gone for years. I'm originally from California and I fell for this guy in 6th grade and then I moved to Texas. I was sure my feelings for him were gone....but when I met him again, just seeing his face made my heart jump. As in "The Maiden", when she saw Zack again, she felt guilty for believing that he left. And when she saw him acting his old self, she reminesced. (sp?) And she remembered how she fell in love with him. (Funny though....this reminds me of when Cloud spoke to Tifa about Aeris. He gave his opinion in how, Aeris wanted to sacrafice her life for the planet. But Tifa was the one who disagreed and said that Aeris looked forward to the future the most. Well, being that they are close friends and all, of course. It just shows that Cloud didn't really know Aeris.) Quote: In the game, whose main theme is LIFE, the personification of it is displayed through Aerith. It’s the way the developers personally start to involve the player with the theme. Many complain about Aerith’s personality being too happy and lively, but her personality was designed this way because of the life and hope for the future she displays. Zack represents the past and death. Aerith character which always looks toward the future would be breaking her symbolism by dwelling in the past and clinging to Zack. We’ve shown that Aerith realizes Cloud and Zack are not the same person. In the beginning, it is logical to believe that Aerith was initially attracted to Cloud because his gestures and SOLDIER background reminded her of Zack. This, however, does not mean she was obsessed with Zack. That happens to be far from the truth, as I have already shown. It was something that simply caught her attention, and most likely reminded her of Zack initially, which led to wonder and curiosity. It resulted in her wanting to know more about Cloud. I remember one Cloud x Tifa supporter saying that Aerith never showed interest in getting to know Cloud. Sure she does! Think back to Cloud’s explanation of the Nibelheim incident in Kalm. When he goes into his old home where his mother lives, we see this dialogue: Cloud "This is... my house. It has nothing to do with that incident five years ago." Barret "Yo wait, I wanna hear." Aerith "Me too! It's been a long time, right?" True, Barret shows interest in Cloud’s personal past and the rest of the group perhaps does as well. Aerith, in this scene, shows a great interest in Cloud’s (not Zack’s) past. She gets excited (“Me too!”) and kind of pushes him on to discuss it (“It’s been a long time, right?”). Another example can be taken from what Marlene tells Cloud in Aerith’s house after Aerith is kidnapped. Ehh....I don't think this part is particularly important though...sure, she wants to know him....(And it's not like Cloud said much....). Quote: Marlene "Guess what? Guess what? Aerith was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!" Aerith wants to know what kind of character he (Cloud not Zack) has. It’s apparent she has an interest in Cloud at this point and wants to know more about him. Why else would she be asking Marlene about him? If she thought he was Zack or whatever that concept is, wouldn’t she already know Zack good enough, and therefore have no need to ask what kind of person he is? So how do we know for sure that Aerith sees Cloud, and not Zack? The answer is clearly stated in this last scene I post which occurs in the gondola on Cloud and Aerith’s date. Aerith ".........first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture...I think I must have seen him again, in you..." Aerith "But you're different." Aerith "Things are different..." Aerith "Cloud...I'm searching for you..." Cloud "............?" Aerith "I want to meet you." Cloud "But I'm right here." Aerith (I know, I know... what I mean is...) "I want to meet..... you." Just like she said, she wanted to meet him... Cloud. Yes.....she did.....but she never got to until her death.
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:13 pm
twindream That's true....but Cloud's true character is shy and weak. He still wasn't himself in the beginning of the game though. Cloud kept his true self locked up and the memories he kept dear to him. (Lifestream event comes to play) Basically he created his own character, mixing Zack's behavior and memories as well and mixing memories of Tifa. Aeris didn't get to know "Cloud". (The Maiden) Cloud's true character was locked up. In Case of Tifa and Advent Children, you start to see some character development actually go through him. Cloud wasn't Cloud since the "real Cloud" was hidden (Insert Lifestream event). When Cloud fell into the church, the voice that asked him if he was okay was his inner self, "Cloud". (Oh gosh this is just going back and forth.... xd ) Also, other times "Cloud" spoke to Cloud was in Junon when "Cloud" asked about Tifa as well as the Honeybee Inn. It shows that the present Cloud really wasn't himself. Not only was his memories wrecked, but so was his action/behavior. So yeah....When it comes to Aeris, they didn't get to know each other. Some of Cloud's memories were mixed in with Tifa's as well as Zack's due to the Jenova cells, so he would know that he was born in Nibelheim. The only memories he kept were his encounter with his mother, the Nibelheim incident, his feelings for Tifa, and the promise. (Lifestream) The context certainly does say that she really got over him. But people are able to say that after someone has been gone for years. I'm originally from California and I fell for this guy in 6th grade and then I moved to Texas. I was sure my feelings for him were gone....but when I met him again, just seeing his face made my heart jump. As in "The Maiden", when she saw Zack again, she felt guilty for believing that he left. And when she saw him acting his old self, she reminesced. (sp?) And she remembered how she fell in love with him.
well if Aerith didn't know the "real Cloud", Tifa sure didn't either. She and Cloud were little more than strangers as children. Tifa herself stated this. In fact, Tifa didn't really start getting to know Cloud until he joined AVALANCHE many years later, right about the time he met Aerith. So, what applies to Aerith applies to Tifa as well.
also when you say "his feelings for Tifa" thats not love
All Tifa does is suggest he remember something regarding her from their childhood. And the only thing he recalls is the fact that he and Tifa never really knew each other that well at all. He recalled a childhood crush that Tifa had never reciprocated, along with feelings of shame and rejection. In fact, Cloud's childhood crush was not even based on a relationship with Tifa at all since he never knew her. Not to mention the fact that a lot can change in seven years, including getting over a baseless crush. Past feelings should not even be considered when discussing current feelings. Expecting Cloud to retain his feelings for Tifa is like expecting a boy in the 6th grade who is very unpopular and has a crush on the most popular girl in school to still retain those feelings for her when he is in college and hasn't seen her or spoken to her for 7 years. absurd no?
Let us compare Cloud's reaction over the death of Aerith with another time when he believed that two people close to him were injured and/or dying:
Zack: A close friend of Cloud's from SOLDIER, Zack was brutally attacked by Sephiroth and left to die. What was Cloud's reaction? Nothing. He picked up Zack's sword and went after Sephiroth. He said nothing. He did nothing for Zack. He showed no emotion.
Tifa: A close friend of Cloud and the other half of the "love triangle". Tifa was viciously stabbed by Sephiroth and left for dead. Cloud comes across Tifa lying on the steps of the reactor at Nibelheim. She is bleeding severely. What does Cloud do? Does he hold her close? No. Does he scream in rage and anguish? No. Does he weep? No. All Cloud does is set Tifa to the side. He says nothing to her. He just leaves her there to die. And, yes, Cloud did think Tifa was dying, later admitting that he thought she was a "goner". Tifa herself stated that she was surprised that she had survived the incident. Cloud admitted that he was "sad" that Tifa was dying. However, his sadness was not enough to break down his cold exterior and open the emotional floodgates as we see during Aerith's death. In fact, if it had not been for Tifa's teacher, Zangan, she probably would have died. Zangan was the one to stop Tifa's bleeding, not Cloud. Zangan was the one who carried Tifa down Mt. Nibelheim to get her much-needed medical attention, not Cloud. Now, compare all of this to Cloud's reaction at Aerith's death. It should be clear which of them Cloud is in love with.
"Cloud is speaking of he and Aerith in the first person plural the same way that couples do. Some people argue that Cloud does not mean he and Aerith as he says this. They interpret this phrase to mean that Cloud is asking how the group is going to fight Sephiroth without Aerith, since she told Cloud in the Sleeping Forest that only a survivor of the Cetra can do it. However, this interpretation doesn't fit the context of the passage at all. Cloud is in the midst of grief and shock over her death, while he is clutching her body close to him with his head bowed over her. He is in the midst of talking about his own pain and the loss of Aerith. Why would Cloud suddenly switch topic to ask how the group is supposed to fight Sephiroth without Aerith?"
See what I mean? Cloud loved Aerith. He just realized it a bit too late. They say you never know whar you've got until it's gone. I think this was the case here. Also, according to Shadow Spirit, a Japanese descendant, Aly is correct about the "What about US" statement. In his interview with Aly, which can be viewed here, SS comments on the Japanese version of FFVII:
"When Cloud says 'What about US? What are WE supposed to do?' in Aerith's death scene, the phrase is directed to Cloud and Aerith in a personal sense, almost like a talk between him and her. The language usage in this scene is painful, soft, and personal, instead of Cloud's usual rough manner of speech. Although he doesn't indicate love in and of itself, it's the only scene in the game where Cloud shows a soft side, so it's pretty much sure that Aerith was very important to him and more than just a friend. Aerith is the only person who captured Cloud's attention like this in the game. Since your actions reveal who you love in Japan, then his feelings for Aerith are suggested in this scene."
I would like to also add that Aly and Shadow Spirit's interpretations of this passage are also considered correct by Vilaeth, the site translator for AdventChildren.net, who is also of Japanese descent. ^_^
There are a couple of more points regarding Aerith's death and the circumstances around it that I would like to make...
1. When Aerith ran off into the Sleeping Forest in Cloud's vision, he ran after her. Why? Why would Cloud run after Aerith unless he wanted to be with her and/or didn't want her to leave? He didn't have any reason to think she was in danger. After all, she told him she would come back when it was all over. Sephiroth didn't appear until after Cloud had started running. What reason did Cloud have for running after Aerith before he even knew she was in danger unless he just didn't want her to go?
2. When Cloud approached Aerith on the altar where she was praying, he waved everyone else away. Does this remind you of anything? Well, it should, because it is the exact same thing Vincent did when he approached Lucrecia beneath the waterfall. Vincent wanted a few moments to speak alone with the woman he loved. Cloud is no different. Doesn't the fact that he wants a moment alone with Aerith imply that she is something more than a friend to him? Doesn't the fact that his friends allow him to approach her alone imply that they are aware of how he feels for Aerith? Tifa was Aerith's friend, too, so why wasn't she allowed to pass? If Cloud was a mere friend to Aerith, then why was he singled out to approach her alone?
3. Why did Sephiroth wait until Cloud arrived to murder Aerith? I mean, Sephiroth waited around until Aerith had already gotten her wish to the planet and bonded Holy to humanity. That was rather counter-productive of him, don't you think? Why didn't he kill her before she did this? It would have fueled his plans much better if he had done so. By killing Aerith after she was done praying, he actually helped Aerith to summon Holy. So, why make this troublesome girl even more of an obstacle by doing exactly what she wanted? I mean, he showed up in the Sleeping Forest right after she left. He knew where she was going and what she planned to do. So, why wait? I think the answer is pretty clear. Sephiroth waited to kill Aerith in front of Cloud because he knew that nothing could devastate Cloud more than to lose the woman he loved. It was Sephiroth's way of getting revenge on Cloud for being defeated in the Nibelheim reactor. Even when Sephiroth laughed and claimed Cloud was incapable of feelings-- he was doing all of it to cause Cloud grief and sorrow. Even in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, Sephiroth states that he wishes to bring Cloud despair. What better way to cause despair than to kill the one you love most in the world right in front of you while you stand there helpless?
4. Cloud was the one to run to Aerith and scoop her up in his arms after she had been killed. And it was everyone else who came up to offer their condolences, whether it was a hug, a hand on the shoulder, or an understanding nod. If Aerith was just a mere friend, like she was to everyone else, why would everyone be comforting Cloud? Doesn't this imply that they understand just how deeply he cared for her? Doesn't also imply that they understand that Cloud is suffering the greatest loss?
5. Cloud, alone, was the one to lay Aerith to rest in the water. No one else was visible in this scene. Just like when Cloud approached Aerith alone, Cloud was allowed a special moment alone with Aerith. If Cloud considered her a mere friend, like all of the others did, why was he the only one to carry her to her final rest? Doesn't this indicate how special Aerith was to Cloud?
In the novella "Maiden of the Planet", which focuses on Aerith's spirit after her death, we have a confirmation of just how devastated Cloud is over Aerith's death. Read it and weep, CloTis:
"She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him."
And here are a few more lines in case it hasn't struck home yet for some of you thick-headed people. XD This one takes place immediately after her death:
"But a cry came through to her. It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul- It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth."
Do these lines even remotely sound like someone who has lost a mere friend??? I don't think so.
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:22 pm
I also thought this was intersting:
In Advent Children, Aerith's presence was represented by water. Of course, we can draw the conclusion that this was meant to reference her lake burial in the City of the Ancients, but why else could it be associated with Aerith?
In philosophy, water represents things that are flowing, formless, adapt to their surroundings. Aerith easily adapted to her new existence as a wanderer of the Lifestream as can be seen in Maiden Over The Planet. If there is a way around something, she adapts herself to the situation and finds it. There was a way to stop Meteor, Aerith found it. There was a way around the boundaries of life and death, Aerith found it, appeared to Cloud, communicated with him and reassured him.
Also, water symbolises thoughts and feelings. Aerith is impulsive and follows her heart and emotions, speaks her mind. She obviously wasn't afraid to show her feelings while travelling with AVALANCHE, since when she was killed, Cloud spoke about how she would never 'laugh, cry, or get angry'.
Water traditionally signifies purification or regeneration, which is most obvious in the last scene of AC, where the water cures the children of Geostigma. Aerith's powers were all related to curing, true, but I think for Cloud, the water cleansed him of his 'sins', more than anything else. He had told Vincent beforehand that he was going to try and be forgiven for his sins. Aerith raining the healing water down on him could have been her way of showing him that he didn't need to try to be forgiven, his sins were forgiven. Not just his sin of 'letting her die', but also perhaps his sin of 'causing' Zack's death, since Zack died protecting him.
Being immersed in water is also associated with rebirth. At the end of AC, when Aerith and Zack send him back, Cloud is immersed in the water pool in the church. This could represent Cloud being 'reborn' without his sins, reborn as a person who can look to the future and live freely with no guilt to bind him to the past. I don't mean that Aerith and Zack themselves were binding him to the past, just his guilt over their fates. Their memories together are still important to him, and Aerith still lives on in Cloud's consciousness, of course.
Water also signifies life. Strange to associate such an image with Aerith, then? Well, not really. Aerith may not be a part of the 'upper world' any more, but as Maiden showed us, her death didn't mean that she would cease to exist. Her spirit is still very much alive, even without her physical body.
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:26 pm
Aerith's first love was Zack, and I'm sure that she held him dear in her heart. When Aerith was seventeen, before the game began, the two shared a teenage romance, but unfortunately they never got the chance to develop it into a serious relationship since Zack left for Nibelheim and never returned. During Cloud's flashback on disc three, we discover that Zack was killed trying to protect him. Cloud and Zack were comrades: Zack a SOLDIER First Class and Cloud a Shinra guard, and when Zack died, Cloud 'carried on his life' for want of a better phrase. He repressed the memories of what happened during the Nibelheim mission and as a result he also repressed the memory of Zack. Just to make things clear, Cloud did not, as some think, take on Zack's personality. Cloud simply thought, thanks to his skewed memories, that he had achieved what Zack had.
But that's not the issue here. This essay discusses Aerith and Zack's relationship, and whether Aerith still loved Zack, and fell in love with Cloud because of his resemblance to him, as some gamers believe. It's safe to assume that at first, Aerith was attracted to Cloud because of his resemblance to Zack, plus his similar habits (his way of walking and gesturing, for example), but as time went on she got closer to Cloud and realised that he and Zack were two completely different people. Don't agree? Let's have a look at the script for Cloud and Aerith's date.
Aerith: ....First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture...
Aerith: I think I must have seen him again, in you...
(She shakes her head)
Aerith: But you're different.
(She looks down)
Aerith: Things are different...
Notice how she acknowledges that Cloud and Zack are nothing like each other, personality-wise? She says; "Two completely different people." and "But you're different." Aerith was aware that Cloud was not Zack, and she recognised the differences between them. Also, notice that Aerith said that it bothered her that Cloud and Zack looked alike? This is an odd choice of words for someone pining over her lost love, wouldn't you say? Wouldn't she be pleased that she had found someone like Zack? Wouldn't she want Cloud to be similar? Why would it bother her?
During her talk with Cloud in sector six, Aerith dismisses the idea that she and Zack were serious. She says; "No, but I liked him for a while." Cloud asks her his name, saying that he probably knew him, but Aerith tells him that it 'doesn't really matter'. Again, is it really plausible that she would say this if she was so in love with Zack? Wouldn't she ask Cloud if he knew Zack, when he'd last seen him, things like that? Wouldn't she ask if Cloud could help her find him? Saying that it doesn't matter doesn't really fit with the idea that Aerith is still in love with Zack.
In Gongaga when the party meet Zack's parents, they ask if Aerith was the girlfriend that Zack wrote to them about. Here is another opportunity for Aerith to show she is still pining for Zack by asking when his parents had last heard from him, if he had mentioned her name, whether she could see the letter, e.t.c. Instead, Aerith says "No, that can't..." and leaves the house. Strange behaviour for a girl desperate to see her first love again. Outside, in the village, Aerith tells Cloud that she didn't mind that Zack hadn't contacted her.
Aerith: That's all right. It's all in the past now. I was just worried because I heard he's been missing.
Cloud: Missing?
Aerith: I think it was 5 years ago. He went out on a job, and never came back. He loved women, a real ladies' man. He probably found someone else...
(She walks to Cloud)
Aerith: Hey? What's wrong?
It's worth noting that Aerith says that this is all in the past. She suggests that Zack found someone else, but she doesn't seem to be too affected by this admission. Wouldn't she be upset to even think that he had found someone else if she loved him?
Also, depending on the optional response to her question, Aerith takes the opportunity to tease Cloud about being jealous. Would she do this if she still loved Zack? It isn't likely.
Aerith is probably the most optimistic, forward thinking member of the party. Have a read of these quotes.
"Wow! I'm really looking forward to it! Let's ride the Airship together, OK? Promise, promise me!"
"Just hang in there. Someday we'll look back at these hard times and laugh"
"I won't let you do it! The future is not only yours!"
"Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over."
"Aerith talked about the future more than any of us. She always talked about the 'next time'"
Even Tifa says herself that Aerith spoke about the future more than any of them. This shows that she wasn't the type of character to dwell on the past, or on a teenage romance that ended five years ago. Aerith will never forget Zack, I'm not suggesting that at all. But five years was more than enough time for her to get over him.
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