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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:48 am
stare Well, the description does say that the basic Guardsman squad can rip through both infantry and heavy infantry squads. And they have abysmal low morale, so low that I doubt that the basic human could face a spider and not soil his panties.
The Kasrkin are real rippers though, I'd take them over Ogryns in almost any situation. Kasrkin rip through almost any infantry with ease, can break down most structures with ease, they just need support for anti-tank.
Putting three squads in a Chimera, while econimic is fecking useless! Ooh, when I throw in three squads the six lasguns in the back may fire if the goddamn tank wont turn at each moment! Besides, both the Hellhound, Sentinel and Chimera lack weapon upgrades (Hull-mounted bolters? Heavy flamer for the Sentinel maybe?)
The Imperial Guard did not feel like a horde army at all and the bunkers are fecking useless! Most weapons can stay well out of range, unless you have basic squads of troops with no special weapon upgrades.
And the voice acting is fecking bad. I stand with my point, most Imperial Guard units sound like pom criminals and the general sounds like a nam veteran that has been anally raped by a two-by-four with splinters along both edges.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:47 pm
Lt_Brookman stare Well, the description does say that the basic Guardsman squad can rip through both infantry and heavy infantry squads. And they have abysmal low morale, so low that I doubt that the basic human could face a spider and not soil his panties. The Kasrkin are real rippers though, I'd take them over Ogryns in almost any situation. Kasrkin rip through almost any infantry with ease, can break down most structures with ease, they just need support for anti-tank. Putting three squads in a Chimera, while econimic is fecking useless! Ooh, when I throw in three squads the six lasguns in the back may fire if the goddamn tank wont turn at each moment! Besides, both the Hellhound, Sentinel and Chimera lack weapon upgrades (Hull-mounted bolters? Heavy flamer for the Sentinel maybe?) The Imperial Guard did not feel like a horde army at all and the bunkers are fecking useless! Most weapons can stay well out of range, unless you have basic squads of troops with no special weapon upgrades. And the voice acting is fecking bad. I stand with my point, most Imperial Guard units sound like pom criminals and the general sounds like a nam veteran that has been anally raped by a two-by-four with splinters along both edges. Thats a long way from a ringing endorsement. How do the other races fair in the expansion?
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:20 pm
Looks like they dropped the power of Eldar units to practically nil... Honestly, 2 squads of Guardsmen with lasguns can NOT drop a Wraithlord. 5 Gaurdsmen can NOT kill 15 Guardians. They have some MAJOR balance issues to work out.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:08 pm
i don't think it's THAT bad, and a guardsmen squad can kill a wraif lord with a plasma gun as long as they have enough time. and i have never seen 5 guardsmen kill 15 guardians, mabey there were some guardsmen out of you line of sight or somthing, and they could have been karskin mabey
they droped all the races i think, (to stop rushing perhaps?)
now the space marines have to upgrade the stronghold to give heavy bolters to squads now, and you need to research "sniper training" to give sniper rifles to scouts.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:16 pm
Nuclearwinter i don't think it's THAT bad, and a guardsmen squad can kill a wraif lord with a plasma gun as long as they have enough time. and i have never seen 5 guardsmen kill 15 guardians, mabey there were some guardsmen out of you line of sight or somthing, and they could have been karskin mabey they droped all the races i think, (to stop rushing perhaps?) now the space marines have to upgrade the stronghold to give heavy bolters to squads now, and you need to research "sniper training" to give sniper rifles to scouts. Plasma gun wounds a Wrathlord on a 5+, my friend, assuming it hits. Lets do the math, shall we? Hits on a 4+ for Guardsmen, wounds on a 5+, requires three to kill. According to average probability, it woul take then 18 plasma shots to drop a Wraithlord in the normal games. Thats alot. Probably about every plasma gun in a 1000 or 1500 point army. Lasguns typically cant even wound a Wraithlord. And you're saying some 18 Guardsmen with lasguns can drop a Wraithlord?
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:31 pm
in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:29 pm
Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. When you worked on these numbers what the hell was the wraithlord doing? i'm assuming ther's no other units involved in this skirmish so wouldn't some guardsmen be dying from the wraithlords return fire? I'm a little rusty on my eldar but i do recall a rather large gun strapped onto the shoulders of the wraithlord.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:33 pm
Ok, 5 guardmens cant kill 15 guardians, but in dow a full squad could kill a wrath lord only if they are maxed out on plasma guns, and the guy rebuilt each dead one. but when the wrath got into combat with guardsmen. but there are some good things along with this game and some crap that i dont see how they missed.
Pro: imp guard is not the best new army, but still a new army.
Pro: new units, would have been better if new chaos unit was a dread or a different greater demon. Eldar would have been better with wrath guard, war walker, or striking scorpons. Marines would be better if a land raider cursader or vendicator. the orks choice was good, but a new unit is a new unit.
Pro: you can be bad in campians.
Pro: necrons come in the campain.
Con: the baneblade is to powerful. costs a littlb, but with vehical cap 3, thats 6 in an army and they can kill a land raider no prob.
Con: cant play imp guard with ppl that dont have the game (i think, high speed is down, so havent played it online yet)
Con: hard to find in stores, it will take a while for most ppl to have th expansion.
Con: the weakest unit for the imps is the simple guard, no scouts, or a weak unit to start, its basic then elite.
Con: basilisks to strong, i can kill 4 obliterators in one shot.
Con: dont show stats in box planflit, have to by a 30$ guide for any details about anything.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:36 pm
Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:49 pm
DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs. but in their favour, isn't a wraithlord a monstrous creature?
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:01 pm
Ophiuchus DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs. but in their favour, isn't a wraithlord a monstrous creature? Point being? What does that affect?
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:10 pm
DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs. "most of the army" Now i'm not the greatest guard player, but i know for a fact that 18 guardsmen is NOT most of my army! in my games a 2000 pt match will have at LEAST 80 men! not including tanks and walkers! but this whole argument has gone too far and i know that 2 plasma guns probally won't do sh*t against a lord but the 3 rocket launchers/ laz cannons / other million guns will obliterate it and fire on the next target and one more thing, EVERY army that is new is alaways the BEST army. at least for a month or two, just look at the past: Necrons came out, the were the best! Tau came out, they were the best! space marines redone, they were the best! guard redone, they were mostly the same but still better! (not in cronological order)
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:21 pm
Nuclearwinter DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs. "most of the army" Now i'm not the greatest guard player, but i know for a fact that 18 guardsmen is NOT most of my army! in my games a 2000 pt match will have at LEAST 80 men! not including tanks and walkers! but this whole argument has gone too far and i know that 2 plasma guns probally won't do sh*t against a lord but the 3 rocket launchers/ laz cannons / other million guns will obliterate it and fire on the next target and one more thing, EVERY army that is new is alaways the BEST army. at least for a month or two, just look at the past: Necrons came out, the were the best! Tau came out, they were the best! space marines redone, they were the best! guard redone, they were mostly the same but still better! (not in cronological order) 18 guardsmen, no, but 18 plasma gunners means that theres a total of 9 squads dragged in tow, since you cant split fire within a squad, and 9 squads is most of an army's troop choice; hell, its more than most armies CAN take!
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:31 pm
DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter DarkElf27 Nuclearwinter in the table top game 18 guardsmen could definlatly wound a wrathlord. they have two plasma guns with range 24, one the lord walks in range they get one volley, next turn the lord is withen 18 and they get another volley, next turn he is withen 12 now they rapid fire on him for one last turn before the assult phase making for a total of eight shots, and if they have a officer near by (which they should in most situations) then they definatly won't run. and even if the lord killed one squad by the last turn it would still be six shots, would they kill him? no. but get a least ONE wound, i think so, the lord only has a 3+ and no invunerable so there is no reason a guard army couldn't deal with one. WRONG. Thats 18 Guardsmen equipped with Plasma guns, about 9 squads. Thats if your focussing ALL of your squads fire on that one wraithlord. No decent tactician is going to point most of his army at ONE unit. You're also assuming that there is no other Eldar units on the field firing at you, or distracting your fire from the Wraithlord (remember, you have to take a morale check to fire at a unit thats not the closest one.) So even if the following things were true Wraithlord is the only thing you're shooting at There are no Eldar units closer than the wraithlord You arent taking any fire from other sources, or indeed the WL itself You're maxed out on plasma guns, no other assualt weapons. Then the Wraithlord would STILL have a damn good chance of getting into CC, and when that happens, you're screwed. T8, cant be wounded, and a wound-carrying model, rather than vehicle, so you cant use krak or Melta bombs. "most of the army" Now i'm not the greatest guard player, but i know for a fact that 18 guardsmen is NOT most of my army! in my games a 2000 pt match will have at LEAST 80 men! not including tanks and walkers! but this whole argument has gone too far and i know that 2 plasma guns probally won't do sh*t against a lord but the 3 rocket launchers/ laz cannons / other million guns will obliterate it and fire on the next target and one more thing, EVERY army that is new is alaways the BEST army. at least for a month or two, just look at the past: Necrons came out, the were the best! Tau came out, they were the best! space marines redone, they were the best! guard redone, they were mostly the same but still better! (not in cronological order) 18 guardsmen, no, but 18 plasma gunners means that theres a total of 9 squads dragged in tow, since you cant split fire within a squad, and 9 squads is most of an army's troop choice; hell, its more than most armies CAN take! oh, sorry, i though you ment 18 guardsmen total! that would be 1 full squad and an 8 man squad. my mistake.
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:38 pm
Not a problem. Lasguns cant even wound the thing, so I dont take them into account.
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