Welcome to Gaia! ::

yes, Silver - yes I do 3nodding

*lounges around*

biggrin

confused Why?

Pffft. I know how you feel D:

I love my drama. So I post my journal from Japan and guess what happened. This is why idiots need a re-education.

Friend 1: also - can i ask why Ieyasu is your Idol?
Me: He was the first Tokugawa Shogunate who closed the ports of Japan and killed the Christians. He also was the one who helped form bushido and was a great military leader.
Friend 1: ‎...because he killed Christians? o_0
Me: <---- )Not Christian per say( It's part of the magic Jenee.
Friend 1: I'm sorry I missed the magic....what magic? I'm confused! are you saying you aren't a Christian so you condone Christians getting murdered? I'm not trying to start anything, I just don't think I understand why you would say it. I agree on the Bushido, and the military leader - I just don't get why you would say hes your hero because he killed Christians.
Friend 2: Christians killed millions. They have it coming.
Me: I agree with Friend 2. No cult is ever truly innocent. That includes Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhist, and all the others. He just has a lot of history for it. It's like my sister liking nazi things. It's history.
Not Really a Friend: Ok, so I add you as a friend and I'm flipping through and I find THIS?!! Let me just make a few points here.
1. Yes Tokugawa was a great man and did a lot of good things, but KILLING straight up was not his goal, it was the means to an end. Revering anyone as a murderer is NOT COOL! If that's what you think the good point of his reign was then you are disrespecting an entire nations very rich history.
2. I am not Christian but by no means is genocide of ANY religion or group of people ok.
3. In reply to Lonnie, I guess we all have it coming then since AMERICANS HAVE KILLED MILLIONS AND STILL ARE!
4. Your sister liking "nazi things" is a totally separate matter. I think that Hitler was a brilliant painter, and a brilliant man. We owe him our modern highway system and a great deal about our modern vehicles. He was also a brilliant military leader virtually inventing propaganda which every other country now uses, but that DOES NOT make his genocide of the Jewish people ok. Most of those people didn't choose to be Jewish any more than I chose to be white. In addition, killing the Jewish people did not serve as a means to anything besides just to kill. Yes it's history but not what we should solely remember him for.
5. If you've EVER delved into religious history, you learn a great deal more than what you are taught in "world" and "American" history classes as they tend to be biased, you would know that The Crusades, The Dark Ages, The Holy War, and essentially all of histories darkest moments came to exist because of religious intolerance. Many religions all killing other religions.
6. What about the cult of IGNORANCE AND INTOLERANCE that is being presented in this argument? Have you studied ANY of these religions in depth? Don't be so quick to judge them as a cult if you haven't studied them. Yes there are many cults out there, but most religions are set forth as a means of gathering a community of people who happen to have a similar belief system. There are bad people in every group of people. Just because one person does something bad historically doesn't mean that all people who happen to be of that same color/religion/creed/sexuality, etc. deserve punishment, least of all death.
I finish by saying these two things. 1. Think before you speak. Have some tact, it isn't cool to condemn people when you don't even know both sides, it's ok to have a hero but they shouldn't be your hero just because they killed people. 2. Meat is murder, but Murder is also Murder.
Friend 1: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start all this. I thought you had an actual real reason for liking Tokugawa. If your reasoning for liking Tokugawa is simply to say 'He killed people - so that cool" it isn't much of a reason. I respect Tokugawa - He did so much for modern day Japan. I find it offensive that you would belittle the hero of the country you claim to love so much by stating murder as a positive outcome of his rule.
Me: ‎@1. I never said murdering is cool. I do not idolize him for it. I he's an idol for his methods over murder.
@2. I agree. Yet millions of people are repressed from who they are. Even here in America.
@3. I would also like to point out that at least the US is trying to liberate a repressed people. It's thanks to WWII that Japan has become our great friend. Some times death can be a good thing. If it wasn't for those bombs then Japan would have kept fighting which could have mean no Sensee.
@4. Is it really different. Her idol was the Nazi leader Hitler in this case. Very comparable to Ieyasu. Both were great military leaders and both committed genocide of a group of people. Hitler on the other continued pass more than harborers and killed as he pleased. In this case Ieyasu was the better man. Hitler did not invent propaganda. American did trust me. Before WWI.
@5. There are a lot darker things that have happened in history. I don't know how stupid your history teachers are, but the ones I've had always did the motto. True must continue to prevent disasters, though they are doomed to happen anyways sooner or later. I would like to point out stupid not only have my family members be beaten for the religion they worship, but have been the beaters. I know conflict within religion.
@6. I would like to point out I'm a social studies major. I've studied a lot. I hate history class because I know it already. I have friends from all different faiths. Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, and probably a dozen more. I learn and as questions so I understand them. I've learned to understand what is in the minds of suicide bombers and respect them for their thoughts even if I think what they are doing is bad.

It's okay Friend 1. As a history major this is proof of why a good education is important. I would suggest a good take with a history teacher to understand more.
If it's an understanding if anything. It was a good idea in the sense that in help unify Japan with the closing of the ports. He didn't he would not have been able to close the ports. The Christians would have more and more missionaries. If it wasn't for him doing that we would have the world we know today. The actions of one man can create the world we live in today.

I don't want to leave you breathless, when will you save yourself?

"I spend my days looking through pages
Trying to find a way to get away from me
With love to give that leaves you breathless
Now all I need to find a way back inside my mind"

@Angel: That was a lot to read...And, somewhat out of context, but my opa and oma (grandpa and grandma) were nazis.

"Have you mistaken me this is not about us everyday
Yet still I carry on when everything we have is lost
You're better off to walk alone
I am corruption, I am sin!"