Welcome to Gaia! ::

Well...I mean that depends on what you qualify as "done." I mean one, a lot of people don't go to college, don't know what to major in until years later, or can't afford to go at the time for some reason or other (or have other personal/family obligations in the way). So saying that you should extend college just to be older wouldn't work out well for most people who aren't going or aren't starting until later.

Also, the general assumption is that a bachelors is finished around 21, that's not college, that's one measly degree. However what about people who go on to do post-graduate work? MAs, doctorates, med school, law school. A BA/BS isn't being done for many, it's the beginning. And if you finished your BA/BS at still 30, and had anywhere from 3 - 6+ years of postgraduate work left (like I do, my MA will be one, my doctorate will probably be at least 3...and I took 2 years off between my BA and MA to figure out what I wanted to do with my MA, and I might have to take another year off after my MA to put a research proposal together for my ph.D).

Even if you don't go onto postgraduate work, a BA/BS isn't really a career degree, it's an experience degree. There are very few - if any - specific careers that require a specific Bachelors. You can do most anything - that doesn't require a special credential or postgraduate degree (which does rule out quite a lot) - with whatever bachelors you get. Major in physics and become a dance teacher, major in food science and work at a bank, etc. So you aren't really deciding your future after you finish your BA, nor do you have to. I have a friend who majored in genetics and went on to do their MA in Material Engineering (not related AT ALL too genetic, it's actually about materials to build physical objects not about biology), a friend who majored in English/philosophy and is now in law school (can build well into each other, but it's not pre-law), a friend who majored in history and is doing her MA in political sciences (again well built into one another, but it's not like doing your bachelors in poly sci.).

So yes, you can finish your bachelors at 21 and still wait another 10 years to figure out your life, no problem. So that I don't actually think is stupid. If I hadn't finished my bachelors at 21 I'd be looking at being 40 before I could actually start my career. This way I'm hoping to be adjusted (or if I really hate it, switching into something else) by 30. Pretty good age to start a career I think. I mean think about it, I don't know about you, but I know ONE person who has what would constitute for a career right now, at age 23. Everyone else is either still in school (most undergrad still even) or they have just a job, and the career is still in the making.

Yea, I guess I care about their health too, but mostly I'm narcissistic and care more about me. xd Plus if people want to hurt themselves I think that's their prerogative. I just don't think they should hurt others. I think the only specification I had on my entire accommodations form was "not willing to share with smokers." I said I'd share with men, but not smokers. Hehehe.

Yea, I get that...and if they are really doing this peacefully and respectfully, and are large enough to get the coverage, than that's fine. More power to them. It's just most protests don't stay that way. They are either too small or too crazy (inspired by anger, leading to violence/senseless acts)...small doesn't get attention, crazy gets negative attention.

Oh yea, I think that's pretty hilarious too. But that is sad, when protests on a serious issue become a joke. Ah well, funny is better than scary.

That pretty much is. I don't think I'll be going to Arizona anytime soon, I mean I'm not Mexican. But a lot of people think I am. Probably because I'm half black/half white - too dark to be thought "white," but I don't have black features. I mean if people think mixed they usually get it, but even in as diverse a community as I live in, people tend to think in solids, so Mexican is a guess I get a lot. I think it's kinda funny though, totally doesn't offend me when people don't know what I am. I enjoy it immensely.

I'll think about it if the professor thing doesn't work out. wink

Ah, well you said beer pong. I don't know too many high school kids playing beer pong. Sure some drink, but that kind of structured drinking game tends to come at a later age.

But that's just it, they do pressure you. They fully take away that "adult" decision that you aren't mature enough for, and force the path upon you. Which is actually a good thing. Because again, a BA is really just a guidelines/dirt road, it's not set in stone. So you don't decide anything. And it's true, people do better with a BA, so really, high school should be putting that college pressure on you. So that you value education over getting knocked up, and go to college and figure out your life. And in this country we have pretty decent opportunities for trade school/community college - which aren't good beginning points for college always, but some people either just aren't smart enough/built for college. This way they again have something geared for them. And a lot of my friends who didn't go straight to college are a little, well, they are young and still have youth going for them. But if they don't get their lives together soon - and it's harder and harder to get motivated to go back to school as you age, to get the training you need for a career you want - then yes, they will be the failures high school always said they would be. I mean it's not a guaranteed thing, but it's kind of true, that most people who don't go will not be as fortunate, not be as happy in their careers, etc. It's just better for life to scare you into only thinking about that negative path, so that you can't be wishy washy and assume you'll be one of the few who'll be fine. Who will make it big in Hollywood or on Top Model or something.

And no, I disagree. You are going to dedicate your whole life to one thing, why not get some varied experience first? I mean yea I took a lot of things way off my path at first, but for the most part I don't regret it. Those things shaped who I was, contributed to me meeting different people and greater insight. I mean you can go to med school as a dance major - in fact, you ace all your bio classes and yet you were a dance major, you become a much better med school applicant. You have something that makes you stand out.

It's true we change our mind, but that's a good thing. I mean part of how my friend figured out she wanted to go into Material Engineering instead of Genetics is because she took courses in the latter, she gave it a shot. My friend whose in law school was ALWAYS gearing up for law school, it wasn't a career change for her. However she felt she'd get more out of English and Philosophy than just doing pre-law, she'd gain a different experience, perspective. I mean I had engineering friends who took writing for engineers - boring! I mean GE is SUPPOSED to be about rounding you out, and they resisted that rounding at every opportunity. And that's fine, but it's not like you gain more in life by resisting new things, by not trying to see what you can do. If you never try, how do you know you can't do it?

So yes, I definitely disagree, I don't think changing your minds causes problems at all. Not about what to study/where to work at least. Those are easier changes than you might think, you just have to be willing to work and try new things. Now if you decide to have a baby at 19 and change your mind at 25, well yes, that does cause problems. That isn't something you can just "fix." But changing your major? Your job? No problem.

I mean there are 50 year old patients of my parents all set to kill themselves because after working for 20-30 years as engineers they realize they hate it, but they never tried anything else. They tried the one thing, it didn't make sense to major in English, to get a minor in music or art or human development. Because they knew they were going into engineering, so that's what they did. So they never got to try anything else, find out they really love something else, and now they are miserable - and more than halfway done with life.

Most importantly, it's the people you meet...sure you can think about the people you didn't meet, but seriously, I love the people who've crossed my life path. I think I benefited greatly from having higher math/science skills than most liberal majors will ever know, but even more important, I have some amazing people in my life because of Calculus and Chemistry. I want to be an English professor, but had I not indulged French I never would have met the person who got me my job. The job I love, the job that really made my school home, gave me some of the best friends I could ever ask for.

If there is one thing I will never regret, it's spending time and money doing something - anything. Even if it's not something I'll use later. I cherish every experience. You more often than not regret the things you didn't do, not the things you did. I will never regret learning new things, meeting new people. I mean maybe it's the future educator in me prattling on here, but I think those things are wonderful and beautiful. Just like youth. Thank God I was once young enough to be wayward, or else who knows what I might have let chain me down.

It's quite sad, but I don't know, I feel people who really want to quit do. If they don't have the will power they seek out help, support, etc. I feel that people are told these things are addictive, and that they shouldn't have started in the first place. I mean 80 years ago you didn't know, now you do. And again sure, here's a point where the youth thing might come to play against you. That you are rebellious and impetuous and want to be dangerous. And I suppose it's not fair that you should have ruined your whole life to ignorantly be these things. But what's your excuse when youth fades? I mean there are commercials with phone numbers, products, doctors, etc. Now if you've tried all these things, if you've TRIED, then yes. I feel great pity for you, and I am sorry, that you will suffer for this mistake you really tried to erase. But most people don't call, won't even attempt to put on a patch or try some other treatment. For those majority, I guess I have no sympathy. If you die, well, it's your choice right? Again, this is talking about the people who "want" to quit. But if you don't, it does come again to choice. So that's fine, just don't look to me for pity for choices. I won't deny you anyone their choice, chose away, but then accept the consequences in full.

Eh, sometimes I see it, but yea...it's also hard for me to be objective knowing. One of my Mexican friends says I look it in this, but actually I don't think so: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=48389672&l=3323eb0f57&id=3205737

He's perpetuating a stereotype. razz

You might not be happy about it, but that's life, that's how it is. And you can't KNOW in advance what you want to do. And really I mean you get through HS there isn't anymore, it's not like they rushed the system. So you can sit on your butt for 10 years waiting to decide what you want to do, make sure you won't change your mind, or you can do something in the meantime. If you'd rather work fine, it's just school isn't wrong when they say if you stop you won't go back. The majority of people who stop school for work never go back. It's not positive attitude, it's statistics. I'm just trying to make statistics work to my advantage. I mean at the end of 10 years of working, you decide you want to be a doctor, you are pretty much SOL. You are older, it's harder to retain things to memory, it's been a VERY long time since you took a science class. Too bad career finally realized, it's not to be.

Again there are some who shouldn't be pushed (I wouldn't say tons, I think the majority of that resistant tons could have benefited from a better education than what they got/what they'll ever have), but again those that don't respond well to pushing generally don't get into college anyhow. So that's a moot point. And there are other ways to round out your life, but there is nothing like college...I mean the Sims separates it out into it's own life phase, which is annoying, but apt, it really is.

As for pressure and panic, that's life again. They don't go away. You aren't pressured here you'll be pressured elsewhere. You will always be pressured. And if you make rash decisions under pressure, well, you'll have to learn how to make rash decisions work for you. Because life is pressure, and for as long as you live it won't go away.

Finally, I don't put too much value on money. I think it is important to be self-sufficient, able to take care of yourself and others. However the value I get from work comes 0% from hoarding money. Mainly because in the end, I don't know what happens. But I have a feeling that while I might be able to take experience with me, the money will stay here. So why slave away in a dead end job and pass up better opportunities when tomorrow I could be hit by a bus? And never make use of that money anyhow. Most jobs that you can get without a college degree are dead end and mind numbing, I don't feel my friend gets a lot of experience out of working at Factory 2U (he doesn't think so either, makes him hate himself half the time, but he just can't leave the security of money to go back to school...I mean he's a manager of a crappy outlet store now, isn't that enough? Who needs more than $14 an hour?).

I think most part don't understand the value of education until they don't get one. And maybe it sucks that you have to be pressured in, that you can't do it at your own slow pace. But I mean if your options really were push it or nada, wouldn't you take the former? Would you really just say no education if it can't be my way? You really can't see any value? I mean sure, most systems are broken - from governments to education, waiting for a perfect system isn't going to happen, we aren't - and honestly can't be - Utopia. I'm actually not a positive person, I'm a realist. The primary difference between a first world country and a third world is the standard of education, everything else falls within that.

But hey, school is my thing, and educating is what I do (what I plan to do in more structured depth just as soon as I myself get the education to do that), so of course I'm biased. But not so much that I can't see the veracity of my words, I've seen people who aren't pushed. It's not pretty.

Yea I know, and I mean I wasn't trying to say everyone needs to go to college (though the way the job market is shifting it makes it a lot harder to not have a degree - unless you have connections, so again you can't really make assumptions based on say older generations not needing college as much). I'm just saying there is no way you could change the system so that people could be older when they make these decisions. Which was the base point. Yea maybe it's hard to start at such a young age, but education isn't a short process. I was mostly just trying to say you have to decide about college at 17 because inherently it does not matter what you chose to do you bachelors in (so it doesn't matter if you choose wrong, it's inconsequential), but if you deicde you want more than a bachelors then you are singing up for anywhere from 6 - 10+ years of extended education. You cannot start that at 30.

Anyhow as I know maybe 2% of people who made the right decision at the right time, I think that's almost impossible. You can't make the right decision if you don't know what you want, and even if you know what you want, you can't know what you want later. That's pretty much just what I'm trying to say, I'm not talking about career success, I'm talking about happiness. Pretty much unless you are psychic you can't plan for happiness, you just have to learn to enjoy the ride. And not regret extra steps. They'll probably benefit you something. I don't know about too many people who regret unnecessary education.

As for desire to achieve, sorry, but that's like all parents telling their kids they can be whatever they want when they grow up. That's just not true. Some kids just aren't smart enough, talented enough, attractive enough to be "whatever." Because life isn't equal, and thus, neither are careers/lifestyles/etc. A desire to achieve is a nice start, but come on. There are millions of people in the country and one president. Maybe 5 - 10 per an adult lifetime. You and 30 others can desire to be president all you want, but that's just not going to be enough. I mean if you desire to be an accountant, heck yea, you'll probably get that (unless you absolutely suck at math), there are tons of accountants. But the job market is competitive and there are way more people than jobs - thank you baby boomers.

Eh, I don't mean to go on and on, I just like to debate things, it's what keeps my brain from atrophying while I'm not in school. Which is mainly why I like school, I have an extreme fear of my brain going to mush. The only 60+ people I know who aren't mush, who are still as witty and intellectual as us twenty somethings, are professors. Which is one of my main reasons for wanting to be a professor, besides a love of learning, instructing, researching, etc. I want to be intellectual into the day I die, that is my dream.

I definitely get more out of debate than daydreaming, I mean I think tons when I'm alone, and I enjoy that. But it lacks the thrill, the drive, it's working with only the known. It's weird to say, but I know everything I know. So I either want new information, or I want new ways to deal with information, and usually that is presented better by interacting with others. You can only be so much of a challenge to yourself, and I need constant challenge in my life to not be miserable. Which is why I need work or school...although at this point a lot of the work I'm "qualified" for is too easy for me, so it's better than nothing, but not enough.

I guess the reason I like debates is the reason I do tend to shy away from them - I either get bored (it's nothing new or exciting) and thus a waste of time, or I get too passionate. I never get intimidated, which is why it takes me awhile to realize I'm intimidating people. I don't mean to do it, I just get extremely passionate and excited. And what seems like fun to me I don't always get is annoyance to others. I just can't imagine being annoyed by arguing. xd

Well you're almost done right? And then you can sleep the summer away, haha. Guess I'd better get back to work now...*runs*

Ahh, well I think it's also that I'm hyper competitive in pretty much any arena, except maybe music. I like the group suppor their but I just don't have the talent to compete there, so I don't. I'm also stubborn and arrogant.

seriously guys, my favorite character is Seto for a HUGE reason here. XD

Although I guess I do get intimidated sometimes, I need to retract that previous statement of "never." I mean first there is the whole music/vairous artistic modes where I'm quite lacking. And then sometimes very accomplished/experienced people can intimidate me into silence. Usually once I get going I'm still rather oppionated and I enjoy the debate, it's just mustering up the courage to speak out to people in "their" area. Like I took an Islam class, and most of the people in the class were Muslim, so there was also the fear of offense there. However the teacher (also Muslim) really liked my papers and kept prodding me to talk in class, so I finally did. That's the other thing, when I'm intimidated to speak I'll still probably right. Usually nothing scares me away from writing. It also helps that I think better on paper than out loud.

Why wouldn't you be sitting your exams?

Haha, well glad you think so.

Ah, so it's a personal choice thing. Hmm...I dunno what would be best. I mean generally material sticks better after you first learn it, so you'll have to be dedicated to continually studying until August. Plus if you don't pass you'll have to wait a year from August, rather than a year from now. If you think it's pretty unlikely you'd pass now, then you should probably wait. If you think you actually have a fair chance you should give it a shot, because who knows what's coming in the future. August could be an even worse time. Although I sincerely hope not.

Break away, it obviously needed it.

That blows, well...if you want to get defensive, you could always blame your group for not having the decency to cut you off. stressed

Yea, if you were in my group I probably would have cut you off, especially if you were clearly flubbing. But I'm a control freak, so I tend to control people in groups anyhow. Usually they let me because I tend to get stuck with lazy people who want to do zero work. So they are perfectly happy to be my puppets. Which makes me angry at them but it gets things done so whatever. If they are fine with it then I'm actually ok.

I've gotten nervous in group projects, but I'm pretty good at memorization, so I usually remember everything I'm supposed to say in the order/style I want to say it. Chances are I'd rush through things and it'd be too short, if for some reason I was off. I'd leave arguments out and just condense. That tends to be my mechanism, brevity. I mean the other reason I probably don't screw up is because I do the bulk work of projects, so by presentation time I am very very prepared.

Anyhow there's nothing you can do about it now, what's done is done. Your group isn't hating you and it's just one project, one class, one grade. Chances are it won't effect your whole life, and maybe you'll be able to be better prepared next time. Like say, you'll know to go last. J/k. xd