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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:21 am
Black Templars: I didnt think they lost ATSKNF. They should still rally after running. That and my cousin and my best friend play BT and its never been a problem.
Blood Angels: First and foremost, the idea was that the Blood Angels were pretty much the perfect legion until Sanguinis' death. Theyre trying to retain that. That includes codex procedures such as being a shooty army. The whole point and mood was that they wanted to be themselves acting like a normal unit but cant. Thus still having scouts and Tacticals as troops, not assault marines, and being forced to charge on rolls of 1. Now granted, people still made armies abusing the assault aspects of the armies, and youd rarely see termies or devestators in a BA force, but the new rules just turn them into one more assault army.
Obersturetc. jump pack heavy units are not fluff related to them.
The issue is not making playable armies, hell an army of grots is playable (and can be fun too) its more of an issue with fluff than game mechanics, though game mechanics come into play.
As far as playable, their librarian will always be a problem with me. I didnt like him as a character before, but now as a model he's ridiculous.
Dark Angels: Ill argue their rules. In the fluff terminators come in squads from 5-10, if I remember correctly the deathwing can only have squads of 5. Also I believe they cut out banner carrying terminators, apothecary terminators, etc. IS the Sword of Secrets/obsidian sword still a wargear item or special character restricted? As for that, no real problem with the DA as a whole but more with how the marines are being taken.
In general to new codicies, I dont like the idea of mandatory grenades, combat squads i can live with, but I dont think my unit size should be mandatory. I want options, not preset squads or wargear. Also special characters, they shouldnt be treated as regular HQs. That takes away the "special" aspect if theyre used every game as some regular thing. Which is more just with how GW is trying to compete with Warmachine, which is a big mistake.
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:27 am
Fair enough, King Kento. I'm pretty content with the ways rules are written, and I'm off the mind of "Separation of Fluff and Rules...to an extent." I'd elaborate more on my stance but that's off topic.
And you're right, BTs still have "And They Shall Have No Fear," meaning that they'd rally instead of running away after getting shot to pieces.
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:23 am
King Kento
Dark Angels: Ill argue their rules. In the fluff terminators come in squads from 5-10, if I remember correctly the deathwing can only have squads of 5. Also I believe they cut out banner carrying terminators, apothecary terminators, etc.
but can have thunder hammers, etc, in the squad, since Assault Terminator
squads don´t excist in DA army.
That and they are Fearless.
The banner bearer and apothecarion idea is in the new codex,
If Master Belial of the Deathwing Company is in the army then 2 models
in any squad can be upgraded (only one BB and one Apothecarion)
Same rule is with Sammael.King Kento IS the Sword of Secrets/obsidian sword still a wargear item or special character restricted?
weapon that gives +2 to S, also it is a Master Crafted weapon,
so no "Company Master with S6" idea is available.
Belial has Sword of Silence and Sammael has Raven Sword, but they only
grant the "Master-Crafted" rule for them.King Kento I dont like the idea of mandatory grenades
And since they cost nothing extra for the 5 men you buy for the squad,
your pretty much 15 poins cheaper then regular SM squad (plus 10 since DA´s have pistols. :3)King Kento I dont think my unit size should be mandatory. I want options, not preset squads or wargear.
Plus the fact that you can only take a Heavy Weapon if the squad is 10 men size. gonk
You can´t have a heavy weapon in 5 men squads. crying
Unless you combat-squad them, but that only works if the squad is not in reserve or deep-striking. ninja
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:03 am
I've never had the issue of my Templars running off the table. The "And The Shall Know No Fear" rule keeps that from happening, and well I keep passing my tests. Which means I have the opposite problem. My Tempars run right into the teeth of the enemy, hack apart the unit that was shooting at them, then get ripped apart by the bigger guns, because they're no longer in cover.
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:14 am
Asmondai Deathwing terminators can indeed be only a 5 men squads, with 1 special weapon,
but can have thunder hammers, etc, in the squad, since Assault Terminator
squads don´t excist in DA army.
That and they are Fearless.
The banner bearer and apothecarion idea is in the new codex,
If Master Belial of the Deathwing Company is in the army then 2 models
in any squad can be upgraded (only one BB and one Apothecarion)
Same rule is with Sammael.
Sword of Secret is only wielded by Azreal, so he is the only model with the
weapon that gives +2 to S, also it is a Master Crafted weapon,
so no "Company Master with S6" idea is available.
Belial has Sword of Silence and Sammael has Raven Sword, but they only
grant the "Master-Crafted" rule for them.
I like it, I never buy a squad without them. :3
And since they cost nothing extra for the 5 men you buy for the squad,
your pretty much 15 poins cheaper then regular SM squad (plus 10 since DA´s have pistols. :3)
Yeah, that is pretty annoying, I agree on that one.
Plus the fact that you can only take a Heavy Weapon if the squad is 10 men size. gonk
You can´t have a heavy weapon in 5 men squads. crying
Unless you combat-squad them, but that only works if the squad is not in reserve or deep-striking. ninja
I find the limted squad size and the weapon layout for the terminators devaiting from the fluff. Same goes for removing assault terminators. Now just because you like grenades doesnt mean they should be mandatory, not everyone else does.
I liked my initiative 3 salamanders, but I didnt think that shouldve been mandatory and all marines should have initiative 3. Im for options, not premade units.
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:18 am
The way things are going most minor upgrades will become a standard for most races. Marines come with bolters, pistols, ccw's and frags. Their vehicles come with smoke launchers and search lights as a standard. Orks now come with stikk bombs as a standard. The Baneblade has smoke launchers and a search light as a standard, so who knows, maybe all Guard vehicles will get them as standard kit? In all honesty, frags are a useless upgrade unless you are really sure that you'll be needing them.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:40 am
Lt. Brookman The way things are going most minor upgrades will become a standard for most races. Marines come with bolters, pistols, ccw's and frags. Their vehicles come with smoke launchers and search lights as a standard. Orks now come with stikk bombs as a standard. The Baneblade has smoke launchers and a search light as a standard, so who knows, maybe all Guard vehicles will get them as standard kit? In all honesty, frags are a useless upgrade unless you are really sure that you'll be needing them.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:59 am
Asmondai Lt. Brookman The way things are going most minor upgrades will become a standard for most races. Marines come with bolters, pistols, ccw's and frags. Their vehicles come with smoke launchers and search lights as a standard. Orks now come with stikk bombs as a standard. The Baneblade has smoke launchers and a search light as a standard, so who knows, maybe all Guard vehicles will get them as standard kit? In all honesty, frags are a useless upgrade unless you are really sure that you'll be needing them. Agreed. Just to point it out, orks don't come with stikkbombz as a standard... costs 1 point for them to get it... :B But as you saqy Asmondai, I would lso rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it, I've been through too many of these situations when I played with marines, but now I get them for free and lots of more when I buy them for the same price as they were before.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:04 pm
The thing is, Id rather not get it as i dont need it, and even if i did need it work around it because i dont want to pay 15 points a squad that could be used on HKs.
And I dont feel they should get them for free either in the new lists. The basic marines troop choice is powerful enough for 15 points a model. Theyre competent at shooting, can carry tanbusting weapons, can handle close combat on the offensive or defensive, and are very durable and mobile.
But ultimately, the grenades are a minor thing in a bigger point, such as mandatory squad sizes.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:44 pm
I probably shouldn't bring real life to rationalize 40K, but I like the Mandatory Grenades so far that Marines get for free. Here's how I see it:
Soldiers in real life are given grenades as basic kit. They just have them, whether they end up using them or not is a different story, but they still have them nevertheless. If soldiers in real life are grenade equipped as basic kit, then why not Space Marines? Just my 2 cents.
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:54 pm
I can agree with King Kento. They are only good for when your enemy is in cover. And, it only proves use when the enemy unit is charged while in cover. Why not just bring along a flamer, for less points cost, and have the same effect while charging them? So, they really don't prove to be useful. Why bring points to something less useful, when you could just end up getting better equipment for you HQ or what-not. You can use them against vehicles, but they are only good against lightly armoured vehicles. And, that is with a high dice roll. But, meltabombs I can disagree with. But, only if used in the right context.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:30 am
Obersturmbannfuehrer Chii I probably shouldn't bring real life to rationalize 40K, but I like the Mandatory Grenades so far that Marines get for free. Here's how I see it: Soldiers in real life are given grenades as basic kit. They just have them, whether they end up using them or not is a different story, but they still have them nevertheless. If soldiers in real life are grenade equipped as basic kit, then why not Space Marines? Just my 2 cents. Yeah, but in real life grenades kill and maim people, in the game they are useless rocks that you throw at the enemy snickering behind walls. And I agree, for fifteen points the standard marine is a bargain, adding in more equipment for less sorta kinda breaks it for me, so they should go up in cost, whether the upgrade is nigh-on useless or not.
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:01 am
ok terminus pattern land raider... can t be used in normal games as well?
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:33 am
If you ask for your friends approval, otherwise I say no, since it's an Apocalypse vehicle, and apocalypse and 40K are different games with different rules.
If you find it in any imperial armour books you can use it I think, or if you design one yourself with the Vehicle Design Rules.
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:07 am
thanks for the info on there term pattern land-raider. I wasn't aware apocalypse was a different game i thought it was an expansion or something for 40K.
ok ..i have an other dilemma. I have a predator tank kit coming. I cannot decide which variant i should use. I used to have the old destructor and found it it be pretty good. I'm aware of the pro's and cons of each i just can't make up my mind which i would rather use as they would both be pretty perfect for what i need. any random opinions on the tactical advantages of the various predator options would be interesting and appreciated. smile
I'v been expanding my BT's lately. bought a new termy CC kit. Then in a cheeky stroke i pulled the arms of me old terminators and stuck the surplus claws on them and used the BT upgrade pack to give them BT shoulder pads. 10 man terminator cc squad with a shiny new terminator chaplain beaming in to the middle of an enemy line gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Also got a new dose of tactical marines and a load of cc weapon frames. all in all lots of new toys to play with xd
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