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 Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:04 pm
Kinky Zombie Oh my! I thought I edited out. The non-edited version was much worse. I'm really sorry about that. Apology accepted. Please do fix it though.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:07 pm
TeaDidikai Kinky Zombie Oh my! I thought I edited out. The non-edited version was much worse. I'm really sorry about that. Apology accepted. Please do fix it though. There, I fixed it. :]
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:15 pm
Kinky Zombie TeaDidikai Kinky Zombie Oh my! I thought I edited out. The non-edited version was much worse. I'm really sorry about that. Apology accepted. Please do fix it though. There, I fixed it. :] Thanks.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:18 pm
TeaDidikai Bastemhet Really? Because I don't see how the same feelings toward raping a person and raping a language are comparable. But since you have been the target for both your input is particularly appreciated. It's perhaps the hardest thing for me to articulate. Have patience with me. Of course! Thanks for explicating. Quote: The physical symptoms I experience (likely a byproduct of undiagnosed PTSD) are identical for the two situations. The trigger point isn't the same. My tolerance of Culture Rape is higher because it isn't always as directly associated with the violence I have experienced. OK. So I shouldn't just say that generally it's not acceptable, because at some intersections, the triggering of those feelings of violation can occur in different situations...because of the attack on personal autonomy? Now I'm kinda thinking out loud. What about that video I posted? Is it fair to use rape in other situations? Is there a way to judge when it's being used merely to be evocative? Quote: I have been physically attacked because of my ethnicity. The attitudes that allow that kind of behavior to continue aren't any different than the attitudes that go along with the "Sure- it's bad she was raped, but did you see what she was wearing?" I've been told that if I didn't want to deal with members of AN, I shouldn't have let people know my ethnicity. What is AN? Quote: As for the use of rape in regards to theft, I have been known to use rape for the same reason mentioned above. The sense of violation is similar if not identical in some cases. Do you think it's fair for people who have never been raped to use the word rape to describe to other people who have never been raped something that caused them great pain, even if it had nothing to do with rape itself? Do you think this is an effective means of communication, more than using another word that is not possibly triggering for rape survivors?
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:27 pm
Bastemhet OK. So I shouldn't just say that generally it's not acceptable, because at some intersections, the triggering of those feelings of violation can occur in different situations...because of the attack on personal autonomy? Or cultural autonomy. I know some members of local Native tribes who have a similar feeling in regards to what happened to their ancestors. I knew a woman down in Georgia who would have a horrible reaction to her recollection of what happened to members of her family during the civil rights movement- even though she was never personally attacked. I have a similar reaction when I think about the systematic attempts to exterminating Rroma culture throughout history. I can get as upset thinking about what happened to Rroma hundreds of years ago in different parts of Europe as I do thinking about what happened to me. It's not as common or as instant a trigger as thinking of my personal experiences, but that doesn't make it less real. Quote: Now I'm kinda thinking out loud. What about that video I posted? Is it fair to use rape in other situations? Is there a way to judge when it's being used merely to be evocative? As much as I disagree with those people, at the same time, I think their sense of outrage is justified in their own eyes and I wouldn't fault them for it- perhaps with the exception of targeting Obama by name because of it's application. Aryan Nation. Quote: Do you think it's fair for people who have never been raped to use the word rape to describe to other people who have never been raped something that caused them great pain, even if it had nothing to do with rape itself? Do you think this is an effective means of communication, more than using another word that is not possibly triggering for rape survivors? I think they can be justified in using the term when it hasn't happened to them. I also think that it's possible (and often better) to be sensitive to people's triggers.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:31 pm
Bastemhet TeaDidikai I have been physically attacked because of my ethnicity. The attitudes that allow that kind of behavior to continue aren't any different than the attitudes that go along with the "Sure- it's bad she was raped, but did you see what she was wearing?" I've been told that if I didn't want to deal with members of AN, I shouldn't have let people know my ethnicity. What is AN? Likely, Aryan Nation. This is one of the things that really really gets under my skin. You can't "just not let people know," sometimes. I mean, in the United States, sometimes it's a bit easier for pale-skinned people of different ethnic backgrounds to pass as Anglo, but that's definitely not always the case. In Europe? Good luck. If people are aware of the mannerisms and the appearances of people they hate, they're going to spot you whether you were "trying" to look x, y or z or not. That's pretty terrifying. One of the handful of things that gets me red-in-the-face pissed is to tell someone they deserved their beating/airport security check/whatever else for looking a certain way or "trying" to "let people know." :/ EDIT: Well, I was right about it being Aryan Nation. *spit*
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:37 pm
Collowrath This is one of the things that really really gets under my skin. You can't "just not let people know," sometimes. I mean, in the United States, sometimes it's a bit easier for pale-skinned people of different ethnic backgrounds to pass as Anglo, but that's definitely not always the case. In Europe? Good luck. In the US (especially in WA), I pass. I don't in most of Europe. Quote: EDIT: Well, I was right about it being Aryan Nation. *spit* ~nod~
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:43 pm
TeaDidikai Collowrath This is one of the things that really really gets under my skin. You can't "just not let people know," sometimes. I mean, in the United States, sometimes it's a bit easier for pale-skinned people of different ethnic backgrounds to pass as Anglo, but that's definitely not always the case. In Europe? Good luck. In the US (especially in WA), I pass. I don't in most of Europe. Quote: EDIT: Well, I was right about it being Aryan Nation. *spit* ~nod~ Why not in most of Europe?
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:48 pm
Can someone please explain to me why I am unable to respond to the chat thread?
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:52 pm
TeaDidikai Bastemhet OK. So I shouldn't just say that generally it's not acceptable, because at some intersections, the triggering of those feelings of violation can occur in different situations...because of the attack on personal autonomy? Or cultural autonomy. I know some members of local Native tribes who have a similar feeling in regards to what happened to their ancestors. I knew a woman down in Georgia who would have a horrible reaction to her recollection of what happened to members of her family during the civil rights movement- even though she was never personally attacked. I have a similar reaction when I think about the systematic attempts to exterminating Rroma culture throughout history. I can get as upset thinking about what happened to Rroma hundreds of years ago in different parts of Europe as I do thinking about what happened to me. It's not as common or as instant a trigger as thinking of my personal experiences, but that doesn't make it less real. OK. I'm just trying to sort out where the differences and similarities meet. Rape can happen not only to an individual but to a culture and a language. This is because of the target's autonomy being violated. Quote: Quote: Now I'm kinda thinking out loud. What about that video I posted? Is it fair to use rape in other situations? Is there a way to judge when it's being used merely to be evocative? As much as I disagree with those people, at the same time, I think their sense of outrage is justified in their own eyes and I wouldn't fault them for it- perhaps with the exception of targeting Obama by name because of it's application. What are some instances in which you think the use of rape is not acceptable? *nods* Quote: Quote: Do you think it's fair for people who have never been raped to use the word rape to describe to other people who have never been raped something that caused them great pain, even if it had nothing to do with rape itself? Do you think this is an effective means of communication, more than using another word that is not possibly triggering for rape survivors? I think they can be justified in using the term when it hasn't happened to them. I also think that it's possible (and often better) to be sensitive to people's triggers. Why and how can they be justified, besides the example of your own experience that you gave me? I'm trying to see if my conception of autonomy and yours match up, and why or why not. I might be getting it wrong, after all. I'm pretty much new to these concepts. Since it's better to be more sensitive to people's triggers, even though in some instances using rape as a metaphor can be justified, how can we then apologize for triggering someone after the fact? This was also the other thing that was making me angry. I mean, if you can describe it in another way and not trigger someone, rather than use a triggering example and then apologize after the fact, why not just default to the former?
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:52 pm
TeaDidikai Collowrath This is one of the things that really really gets under my skin. You can't "just not let people know," sometimes. I mean, in the United States, sometimes it's a bit easier for pale-skinned people of different ethnic backgrounds to pass as Anglo, but that's definitely not always the case. In Europe? Good luck. In the US (especially in WA), I pass. I don't in most of Europe. >.< It's funny, sometimes in the city I'm mistaken for Latino (though, I don't look Latino at all), but in the area of Ohio where my parents are from, there are people there that can pick me out of a crowd. It's a little unnerving. I'm curious about what it'll be like when I finally make it to Europe.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:54 pm
ShadowCatSoul Can someone please explain to me why I am unable to respond to the chat thread? No clue. Probably a forum glitch?
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:54 pm
Collowrath Bastemhet TeaDidikai I have been physically attacked because of my ethnicity. The attitudes that allow that kind of behavior to continue aren't any different than the attitudes that go along with the "Sure- it's bad she was raped, but did you see what she was wearing?" I've been told that if I didn't want to deal with members of AN, I shouldn't have let people know my ethnicity. What is AN? Likely, Aryan Nation. This is one of the things that really really gets under my skin. You can't "just not let people know," sometimes. I mean, in the United States, sometimes it's a bit easier for pale-skinned people of different ethnic backgrounds to pass as Anglo, but that's definitely not always the case. In Europe? Good luck. If people are aware of the mannerisms and the appearances of people they hate, they're going to spot you whether you were "trying" to look x, y or z or not. That's pretty terrifying. One of the handful of things that gets me red-in-the-face pissed is to tell someone they deserved their beating/airport security check/whatever else for looking a certain way or "trying" to "let people know." :/ EDIT: Well, I was right about it being Aryan Nation. *spit* *nod* I'm sorry that happens. On my end I get the flip side. Try feeling white guilt while also being half Asian. Then try to figure out how you're supposed to feel about yourself knowing the halves of your heritage were enemies. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:03 pm
Bastemhet OK. I'm just trying to sort out where the differences and similarities meet. Rape can happen not only to an individual but to a culture and a language. This is because of the target's autonomy being violated. I'd personally put language as a subset of culture- but that's semantics. Quote: What are some instances in which you think the use of rape is not acceptable? I'd argue it isn't justified in cases where it doesn't fit the definition thereof. For example, I heard someone laughing while talking about how one foot ball team beat another and they used the term rape. Quote: Why and how can they be justified, besides the example of your own experience that you gave me? I'm trying to see if my conception of autonomy and yours match up, and why or why not. I might be getting it wrong, after all. I'm pretty much new to these concepts. I allow for other people to apply the term accurately by definition regardless of personal experiences. Quote: Since it's better to be more sensitive to people's triggers, Personal value judgment there, just so you know. Quote: even though in some instances using rape as a metaphor can be justified, how can we then apologize for triggering someone after the fact? I usually start with "Oh, sorry" myself. Quote: This was also the other thing that was making me angry. I mean, if you can describe it in another way and not trigger someone, rather than use a triggering example and then apologize after the fact, why not just default to the former? Most of the time it's likely a byproduct of being thoughtless. In instances where people try and justify their use, it would need to be based on their justification.
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:12 pm
TeaDidikai Quote: What are some instances in which you think the use of rape is not acceptable? I'd argue it isn't justified in cases where it doesn't fit the definition thereof. For example, I heard someone laughing while talking about how one foot ball team beat another and they used the term rape. How do you define rape if not simply the physical act of sexual violence on someone without their consent? Quote: Quote: Since it's better to be more sensitive to people's triggers, Personal value judgment there, just so you know. OK. This would just lead to derailing into why respecting other people's wishes to not use triggering words in their presence is morally good while not doing so is morally evil. I'm not really prepared to go into it but I'm going to work on figuring out how to articulate this. For now I'll just have to park it. And maybe read up on the moral relativity thread. whee Ugh. But I'm kinda glad I didn't go and do my rage post since I can see why in this particular instance it would've been justified. Quote: Quote: This was also the other thing that was making me angry. I mean, if you can describe it in another way and not trigger someone, rather than use a triggering example and then apologize after the fact, why not just default to the former? Most of the time it's likely a byproduct of being thoughtless. In instances where people try and justify their use, it would need to be based on their justification. OK.
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