|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:13 am
Alright, since I seem to have inadvertently started a war in here, I'm going to go ahead and end it. Greg, my argument about the jutsu requiring a single handseal was mistaken, as I assumed he was using a different technique due to how he used it. Quote: Bouzenjishitsu no Jutsu (Stupification Technique) Description: The user locks eyes with the target and forces a hand seal. For as long as the two can keep looking at each other without being distracted or obstructed, both cannot move. When the user blinks, it's also over However, if you look at the technique that he used again, you'll see that the technique has it's own activation technique. Quote: Atama Kusari No Jutsu (Chained Mind Technique) This technique uses intricate hand movements and subtle chakra waves to render the target hypnotized and incapable of movement*. However, this effect will only last as long as the shinobi continues to perform the technique and the target can see the shinobi's hands. In other words, while performing this jutsu, you are helpless, but so is your target. (Similar to the Shadow Bind technique, but this genjutsu uses far less chakra). Ideally, this technique would be used as part of a team strategy. *If the target cannot see the shinobi's hands, the technique will not take hold. Intricate hand movements and subtle chakra waves. Now, think for a second. If you had to run through a bunch of handseals, and then go through the motions of your intricate hand movements before this technique activated, you'd already be run through before you got halfway done. It doesn't require handseals. It requires intricate motions. Although all things considered the two could be swapped around. Tenchi, with all that I just said, you are going to have to edit your post, as a single handseal does not count as intricate movements. You're trying to hypnotize your target by keeping them entranced with your hands. Edit your post to show that, so we can move on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:06 am
Yes, the stupidification technique only requires one seal, since it makes direct mention that only one seal is required. But for this jutsu, intricate hand movements directly implies handseals, and more than one. Perhaps the writer of the jutsu simply thought that people would be able to understand that a jutsu requires that handseals be made. Not all jutsu make direct mention of using handseals, that does not mean handseals are unneeded. The point of a string of handseals is to mold chakra from its raw form, to a form usable in jutsu, and genjutsu is not an exception.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:04 pm
My argument for the handsigns is that the same person did the description for all jutsu. That means the means for describing the jutsu don't differ. That means that when it says handsigns, handsigns are needed, and when they don't, unless acting like a similar jutsu that original does require handsigns, don't. The logic you are presenting completely underminds this fact, and calling my reasoning half-baked loopholes. I keep trying to tell you that the jutsu only requires one handsign, or rather no handsigns at all and more of a hypnosis movement as Hinote explains. (Just watched Karate Kid for the Snake Control thingy. I get that now, and would edit, but Greg's post invalidates my genjutsu, so there's no point now). Quick question, though. You follow guidelines, which obviously state that handsigns are required for jutsu, regardless if it's stated they are needed or not. Where, then? And before you say it should be understood, let's go to the manga/anime! Something everyone's been waiting to be brought up... or was that just me? Mmm.... Anyway! Water dragon! It takes, like, 20-30 odd handsigns to perform. It shows that. Tsukuyomi! Just eye contact, as in no handsigns. Chidori! Roughly three or four (I forget the definite number). Decapitating Airwaves! Point and shoot. Now, why would the creator of Naruto, who follows this hidden "All jutsu require handsigns then the activator" rule.... break his own rule? Your turn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:17 pm
Ok, please note that the genjutsu in question will be edited to avoid future disturbances. The jutsu lists will be looked through and edited so that any jutsu that requires no hand-seals, less hand-seals than normal, or extra hand-seals will say so. If the jutsu in question does not specifically say any of these apply then it will mean that normal hand-seal rules apply.
My personal opinion "intricate hand movements" does not necessarily mean handsigns, but it does mean intricate hand movements of some sort are needed. Like hinote said, one handseal does not count as intricate movements either.
I also think the matter has been dragged out enough and it might be a good idea to just say "don't do it again." especially since part of the issue is a flaw in the POTS jutsu system, this seems sufficient.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:54 pm
iTenchi-kun My argument for the handsigns is that the same person did the description for all jutsu. That means the means for describing the jutsu don't differ. That means that when it says handsigns, handsigns are needed, and when they don't, unless acting like a similar jutsu that original does require handsigns, don't. The logic you are presenting completely underminds this fact, and calling my reasoning half-baked loopholes. I keep trying to tell you that the jutsu only requires one handsign, or rather no handsigns at all and more of a hypnosis movement as Hinote explains. (Just watched Karate Kid for the Snake Control thingy. I get that now, and would edit, but Greg's post invalidates my genjutsu, so there's no point now). Quick question, though. You follow guidelines, which obviously state that handsigns are required for jutsu, regardless if it's stated they are needed or not. Where, then? And before you say it should be understood, let's go to the manga/anime! Something everyone's been waiting to be brought up... or was that just me? Mmm.... Anyway! Water dragon! It takes, like, 20-30 odd handsigns to perform. It shows that. Tsukuyomi! Just eye contact, as in no handsigns. Chidori! Roughly three or four (I forget the definite number). Decapitating Airwaves! Point and shoot. Now, why would the creator of Naruto, who follows this hidden "All jutsu require handsigns then the activator" rule.... break his own rule? Your turn. Please, present to me the proof that one person created every single jutsu in our jutsu list. When the jutsu says "after making handsigns", that is purely for the sake of description. If it does not say anything about handsigns, it does not mean handsigns are not required. And I keep asking you to show me where in the description the jutsu mentioned that only one handseal is required. You keep telling me its so, give me the proof you should have given three posts ago. As a jutsu directly created by the sharingan's power, the Tsukuyomi is exempt, just as the Amaterasu, Susanoo, and Izanagi are also exempt (Note: Izanagi is not a jutsu used in POTS). As for any others, have you ever considered that Masashi Kishimoto simply did not want to draw too many people performing the handseals, so he simply skips to the jutsu? Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. It should be common sense that unless otherwise noted, all jutsu require handseals. As an experienced RPer, I cannot understand why you would think that just because a jutsu does not make direct mention to handseals, makes the user exempt from having to make them. Please, enough with saying "your turn" like a second rate smackdown wrestler. If you're going to debate with me, keep the tone intelligent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:03 pm
Alright, I guess it wasn't obvious by my statement that I was ending it, but my post was meant to END this argument. As in no more argument, over.
Jutsu require handseals unless otherwise stated or shown by the description. That is a fact, and will remain so unless we change our systems. (Which may happen, but who knows.)
In this specific case, handseals are not required. Intricate hand motions however, are. That could be anything from making handseals for the sake of making them, to finger puppets. I could honestly care less, as the description simply requires your fingers to be in motion.
Tenchi, go edit your post to include the hand motions, and Greg can then edit his, and the fight can go on. We'll work this out sometime in the near future to get a better idea of handseal requirements, because it truly is ridiculous to expect everyone to just do the seals without knowing how many are required or anything.
Now, as I said, enough of this. If you want to keep bickering, do it in PM, but this is how it ends for this instance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:41 pm
Hinote Tosatsu Alright, I guess it wasn't obvious by my statement that I was ending it, but my post was meant to END this argument. As in no more argument, over. Jutsu require handseals unless otherwise stated or shown by the description. That is a fact, and will remain so unless we change our systems. (Which may happen, but who knows.) In this specific case, handseals are not required. Intricate hand motions however, are. That could be anything from making handseals for the sake of making them, to finger puppets. I could honestly care less, as the description simply requires your fingers to be in motion. Tenchi, go edit your post to include the hand motions, and Greg can then edit his, and the fight can go on. We'll work this out sometime in the near future to get a better idea of handseal requirements, because it truly is ridiculous to expect everyone to just do the seals without knowing how many are required or anything. Now, as I said, enough of this. If you want to keep bickering, do it in PM, but this is how it ends for this instance. I am going to quote Hinote here for further emphasis evil On to another question...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:49 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:17 pm
Okay, I need help telling if I did this right.
I start as a Gennin with 25 chakra points. I have a BL, so I get the 3/10 bonus, and since I'm a ninjutsu specialist, I get +7 points at Gennin level...
so,
do i do
25+7= 32
32+9= 41
or do i do
25+6=31
31+7= 38
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:28 pm
Where did Shay's post go? She posted a clear definition of ulterior.
Also, Snuff, you apply the ninjutsu bonus after the bloodline bonus. So, the second one is correct.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:29 pm
ok, thank you for clearing that up for me, now i can correct my profile.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:21 pm
Existing what is beyond obvious or admitted. Intentionally hidden. adjective ((According to Aa Dictionary))
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wealthy Conversationalist
|
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:41 am
Unrelinquished Despair Where did Shay's post go? She posted a clear definition of ulterior. Also, Snuff, you apply the ninjutsu bonus after the bloodline bonus. So, the second one is correct. I copied the exact definition from dictionary.com. But then I remembered that the last time I answered a question stating information that I knew and had personal experience with, I was told that I was "completely wrong" and "giving false information." So I said forget it, because I'm tired of the unnecessary douchebaggery. I know for a fact that the person who said the aforementioned things dislikes me, and that is 95% of the reason he treated me as such, so I said just forget it. I don't need the added irritation. So I deleted the post to prevent giving out "false information." I'm not in the mood to deal with the douchebags, so I deleted my post to prevent it. @Six: ulterior ul·te·ri·or [uhl-teer-ee-er] –adjective 1. being beyond what is seen or avowed; intentionally kept concealed: ulterior motives. 2. coming at a subsequent time or stage; future; further: ulterior action. 3. lying beyond or outside of some specified or understood boundary; more remote: a suggestion ulterior to the purposes of the present discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:11 am
The aformentioned douchebag, would be me by the way...if no one got that from what she said heart
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
