Welcome to Gaia! ::

So guys, you know how I had that interest in well, cranks? It seems to be well...coming to head. It's become personal. I just found out today that my best friend's father has created this website.. I don't know how to react to this. This man has had a tremendous impact on my life and always struck me as very intelligent. Without him, I probably would never have become as interested in science as I have. And now I find that whatever that is has happened to him.

I...don't know how to react to this at all. I'm pretty upset.

cry

I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't look at the site but... I feel for you. I used to try to look to other people for inspiration in science and math, like a lot. I am very impressionable. But finally I realized that the science and math are there, no matter what people say from day to day. If this person helped you get interested in them at an earlier age then that is what is important more than anything else. Now you have the ability to find out what's right for yourself, and maybe show him where he has gone astray as well. It's not easy... but hope that helps?

Hey Layra (and anyone else who is reading). I have a question regarding your thoughts on specialization in science!

I am aware that it is difficult to learn many subjects at an advanced technical level, which is why people must choose a specific field. But for basic science education, and the things everyone should learn, what is the best thing to teach? There are some things that are considered basic postulates and laws, or even standard procedures that people of all fields should know not to violate, correct?

Is it important to go over the historical development of fields and in how much detail? Personally I found it interesting in my experience to learn about the history and misconceptions people had about different things in the past, how things were discovered...

In terms of things a well-rounded human being should know, I'd say Newtonian mechanics is a big one, as well as at least a rudimentary introduction to the notions of relativity and quantum mechanics. What the Big Bang theory actually states keeps getting mangled, and the evidence for it as well.
Atomic theory is another big notion, along with some understanding of how molecular bonding works and what endothermic, exothermic and spontaneous reactions entail (specifically, why fire is not a substance). The notion of a crystal as a chemical object is a good thing to have, as well as what a metal is chemically.
What the theories of Darwinian evolution and natural selection actually say is one that keeps getting passed over somehow, as well as how DNA encodes genetic information (and the fact that individual genes don't map directly to phenotypic aspects). I'd say a vague notion of what the parts of the cell are is a good thing to have, as well as how sexual reproduction occurs.

Out of all things in science, the scientific method is one of the worst taught things and one of the most important concepts that mankind has come up with. That theories generate testable consequences and that these consequences are tested multiple times by different people is somehow lost to a lot of the population.

Also the notion that the human reference frame, the length and time scales and resolutions that we experience, the mass, velocity and energy levels that we can directly observe, is very limited and very misleading. Most things in science you cannot see with your eyes, you cannot hear or touch or smell or taste and often it is with only mind and machine that they are even known to exist.
This is somehow almost never taught to anyone, and you either realize it via personal epiphany or not at all.

To zer0 omega: Discrete math, eh? Is that the fun stuff we did in elementary school? If so I definitely support returning to that! Haha... No actually it sounds really good. Thanks for pointing that out, because I don't know much of it having studied mostly calculus and analysis since I started college. Calculus is essential to physics though, since a lot of things appear smooth. Greek math... actually sounds kind of cool. I don't know much of it or how it differs from modern geometry. But I do know people like Pythagoras and Euclid existed. ^^

For things that everyone should know, Layra, fortunately I can say that I saw most of the things you mentioned in high school. (Whether or not I would have remembered/understood them if I hadn't continued in science is a different story.) Natural selection is a touchy subject but I think it can be presented in a way that is not too intimidating to students with the basic facts in the context of a biology class.

Other things that might be helpful are the scale of the distances in the solar system and the galaxy. With atomic theory - emission spectra and an outline of the process. Also how a lens works, how a battery works, some basic E&M.

I have always appreciated the scientific method, but did not always feel able to talk to people about science easily other than relating a few facts I had learned. It is easy to make mistakes.

One day I went to an eye exam and told my ophthalmologist I studied physics and he said something about how he thought that if you go faster than the speed of light time goes backwards. I just said I didn't know, but I didn't think you could go faster than the speed of light... burning_eyes

I forget what I was going to post. My latest exchange in ED (with Resid3nt) has distracted me too much.

Apparently I am an idiot because I do not think Ohm's Law, or any other scientific law, is a fact. I should know "fact" means "100% certain," rather than having something to do with observed events. By stating, "Scientific laws are not facts," I am obviously saying all scientific laws are invalid.

Oh, and I am a troll.

Your definition is awkward, but workable. It is impossible to prove a scientific law true. No law will ever be more than a "best answer." Because of this, it is clear a scientific law cannot be a fact. Because proofs of scientific theories rely on scientific laws, they clearly cannot be facts either.

Laws describe observations. Theories explain observations. Facts are observations.