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 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:49 pm
Ummm... space marines live-span is atleast 5 times longer then your average
human being.
The longest living persons amongs the Astartes are Commander Dante and
Bjorn the Fell-handet, having over 1.000 or 2.000 years of services record
in the chapters.
So I would quess that an average space marine would life atleast 200 - 300 years (by if being lucky enougth to avoid certain deaths) and that´s alot of
battles to cover in 20 to 40 years.
And lets not forget the fact that sometimes, in a certain place and time,
a space marine company gets lost in the warp for tens or thousands of years
and appears either in pass or future.
Or atleast that´s how it is in GW´s old fluffs.
And speaking about requitments, I´m pretty sure that the info is a double-edge-sword,
meaning that in some fluff space marine chapters takes 10 - 12 year olds
for trainings, but there are some fluffs and storyes that proves otherwise.
Like "Space Wolf" novel or the "Bloodquest" comic.
Do you see a 10 year old waving a huge weapon, hit another child with it,
wich makes him go like "Bwaaaa, I got a boo-boo!" kinda thing?
Of course not, ´cause such thing is too silly.
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:46 pm
FlashbackJon The Death Masque Have you read anything on Space Marines? It specifically says that Space Marine recruits are all heroes in their own soceities. Plus, they don't have to be children, just old enough to accept the implants. It's the reverse, actually: they have to be young enough to accept the implants. Recruits must become full-fledged Marines between 16 to 18 years of age (see the Index Astartes article on the creation of Space Marines), and the implantation starts between 10 and 12, as the implants are keyed to the hormonal changes that occur during puberty. If you're dead set on adults becoming marines (which is not indicated in ANY Space Marine fluff) it could simply be a matter of "applicants" being unaware of their "selection" - which is actually pretty cool in and of itself. No. Space Marines are very fickle on who they recruit. They have to show the bravery and strength of will that is needed to become a Space Marine. Children will not do. It is true that recruits must be reasonably young, but I think that 12-13 is too young. I've been playing this game for over 2 years now, finding new sources of information on Space Marines to further my understanding and make my chapter adhere to the fluff correctly. But I have to say I think you're being a bit too picky. It ruins the fun. It really does. EDIT: Okay... this is weird. I've just found a table containing the implants and the age range that they have to be implanted. The smallest is 10-12. Well... I don't know now, because I read that recruits HAVE to be heroes in their own soceities. Someone mind explaining that!?
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:00 pm
FlashbackJon The Death Masque I'm sorry... Norse end of the world? Ragnarok. I'd replace the name with something angelic in keeping with your theme. (Unfortunately, most of the apocalyptic angel names are taken: Abaddon, Azrael come to mind.) Ragnarok. The Angel of Death. Augustus Ragnarok. Primarch. And look! I'm getting sick and tired of you saying I need to make it sound more angelic! If you haven't noticed, they're a knight themed chapter! The name is derived from a secretive order of knights back on their homeworld BEFORE the Great Crusade. Plus, secular? Okay, now I don't know what that means, but if it's what I think it means, then this is my response. While they still think the Emperor is still a man, they still have unwavering faith and loyalty to him. They're strong believers in having faith, since they believe it gives courage. But hey! If that's not good enough for you, and I know it won't be, I'll change it!
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:45 am
Asmondai Ummm... space marines live-span is atleast 5 times longer then your average human being. The longest living persons amongs the Astartes are Commander Dante and Bjorn the Fell-handet, having over 1.000 or 2.000 years of services record in the chapters. Well, firstly, Bjorn is a dreadnought. He's already dead. Quote: So I would quess that an average space marine would life atleast 200 - 300 years (by if being lucky enougth to avoid certain deaths) and that´s alot of battles to cover in 20 to 40 years. Secondly, I'm not even sure what you're trying to suggest here, but the longevity of a space marine is based on genetic alteration that occurs as a result of the implants placed in him during puberty. By 16 to 18, he is a full-fledged marine and his physiology is closer to a fully-grown adult human. He's still undergone a level of training in that time which puts to shame an entire lifetime of service in the Guard. Quote: Do you see a 10 year old waving a huge weapon, hit another child with it, wich makes him go like "Bwaaaa, I got a boo-boo!" kinda thing? Of course not, ´cause such thing is too silly. Historically, puberty meant adulthood, especially in primitive or barbaric societies - like the ones from which space marines recruit. There are 10 year olds in this world RIGHT NOW who are willing and capable of hunting and killing you with considerable skill. You're going to tell me this is not the case in fictional Warhammer? This is not the cushy lavishness of the third millenium in middle-class America, but the grim darkness of the 41st, in case you hadn't yet glanced across the cover yet. That's funny. Quote: Space Marines are very fickle on who they recruit. They have to show the bravery and strength of will that is needed to become a Space Marine. Children will not do. To quote yourself: Have you read anything on Space Marines? If you're breeding a genetically-modified, psychologically-conditioned killing machine, do you use an individual who has already lead a long life - and has his vices and failings - or the blank slate that you can mold as you see fit? (Hint: the answer is B.) Finally, a Space Marine recruit will see more intense combat in the six years it takes his implants to set than any mortal "hero" will see in his lifetime. Quote: It is true that recruits must be reasonably young, but I think that 12-13 is too young. I've been playing this game for over 2 years now, finding new sources of information on Space Marines to further my understanding and make my chapter adhere to the fluff correctly. Wow - two whole years? Well, let me just clue you in on a little secret: what you think and what is actually the case do not have to be the same. Quote: EDIT: Okay... this is weird. I've just found a table containing the implants and the age range that they have to be implanted. The smallest is 10-12. I bet you did. wink That would be from the Index Astartes article. That is canon. Quote: Well... I don't know now, because I read that recruits HAVE to be heroes in their own soceities. Someone mind explaining that!? Simple explanation: you never actually read that, except maybe on the intarweb. The Death Masque Ragnarok. The Angel of Death. That's.... that's not actually a thing. Ragnarok is the Norse apocalypse. Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of mythology will see that. It just doesn't mesh with the rest of the theme. Up to you though. Quote: And look! I'm getting sick and tired of you saying I need to make it sound more angelic! Don't get your panties in a twist - you didn't respond to it the first time, and frankly, you just need to settle right the hell down about it. You posted it with the intent of getting feedback and that's what you're getting. A simple "Hey, that's a good idea but no thanks." would suffice. If you can't stand the heat, don't throw your damn manuscript in the fire. Quote: If you haven't noticed, they're a knight themed chapter! That's not evident from your naming convention. Arch Angels, Zion, and Ragnarok do not fit with a knightly theme. Quote: The name is derived from a secretive order of knights back on their homeworld BEFORE the Great Crusade. Great. Backstory rocks. Quote: Plus, secular? Okay, now I don't know what that means, but if it's what I think it means, then this is my response. While they still think the Emperor is still a man, they still have unwavering faith and loyalty to him. They're strong believers in having faith, since they believe it gives courage. Secular means, more or less, non-religious. You have a non-religious chapter, yet your homeworld is the spiritual homeland from three separate existing faiths and your chapter is named after angels. Quote: But hey! If that's not good enough for you, and I know it won't be, I'll change it! You don't have to change a thing. It's your Chapter - you could have COW GENESEED if you felt so inclined. I'm just telling you what the fluff says, and my opinion on your naming conventions - take it or leave it. I'm not the guy you're playing, nor am I the guy who is buying and paying for your models and books. Honestly, you asked for feedback. If you wanted a pat on the head and a gold star on your Oshkosh, you should've asked for that specifically.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:24 am
Mr Masque. Your first paragraph of your army sounds like a glorified Blood Ravens introduction. They have pretty much the same story and the same background, )like how they know nothing about their past and all that crap) and following the events of Dark Crusade, the same attitude towards the Guard and the Inquisition.
I'm also not loving the "It's us against the world." mars doesn't trust us, the Guard and the Inquisition don't trust us, the religion sects of Imperial Faith don't trust us, we don't trust ourselves..." It all seems a little bit...trying to make them sound like so much more than a chapter, if you get me.
I also don't get why some huge High Lord has to slap some guy across the chops before he is accepted. is that when he's a scout, or a ten year old boy, or after they've wasted years of their time on making him a Marine?
How can they cal off an attack on Tyranids? "Woah, hold it there bug boy, I want to go mano-ey-mano[sic] with that there Carnifex." or is that only Chaos, seeing as a Marine Chapter Master would probably easily be able to bitchslap Usarkar Kreed [sp?] or Aun'Va into next week.
And I'm going to also have to agree with Flashback on the names issue. If you've got a company called Arch Angels, then norse names aren't that good. However, if you had a chapter named somewhat knightly...Kroner or Guilder...or any other pre-Euro Germanic/Gothic currency (Mac, calm down, we know what I mean) then names like Ragnarok and Thorwind will do fine.
You will need more angelic names, I suppose. Using a thesaurus and a bit of imagination, I've come up with...Archan, Hereal, Aven, Herubi, Adial, Raphic and Herwurld. Although Herwurld does sound like slightly guilded, it's not too bad.
And I'm also putting my official copyright C on those names, I think they're pretty decent. Notheiving. Getcher own names.
But yeah. Try to be a little less ambitious and a little bit more realistic. Your chapter doesn't do everything...stop trying to make it out like they're...more than a chapter.
I can't explain it better than that really.
But yeah.
My opinion.
-Mykal
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:07 am
A.R.G.U.S Mykal Mr Masque. Your first paragraph of your army sounds like a glorified Blood Ravens introduction. They have pretty much the same story and the same background, )like how they know nothing about their past and all that crap) and following the events of Dark Crusade, the same attitude towards the Guard and the Inquisition.
I'm also not loving the "It's us against the world." mars doesn't trust us, the Guard and the Inquisition don't trust us, the religion sects of Imperial Faith don't trust us, we don't trust ourselves..." It all seems a little bit...trying to make them sound like so much more than a chapter, if you get me.
I also don't get why some huge High Lord has to slap some guy across the chops before he is accepted. is that when he's a scout, or a ten year old boy, or after they've wasted years of their time on making him a Marine?
How can they cal off an attack on Tyranids? "Woah, hold it there bug boy, I want to go mano-ey-mano[sic] with that there Carnifex." or is that only Chaos, seeing as a Marine Chapter Master would probably easily be able to bitchslap Usarkar Kreed [sp?] or Aun'Va into next week.
And I'm going to also have to agree with Flashback on the names issue. If you've got a company called Arch Angels, then norse names aren't that good. However, if you had a chapter named somewhat knightly...Kroner or Guilder...or any other pre-Euro Germanic/Gothic currency (Mac, calm down, we know what I mean) then names like Ragnarok and Thorwind will do fine.
You will need more angelic names, I suppose. Using a thesaurus and a bit of imagination, I've come up with...Archan, Hereal, Aven, Herubi, Adial, Raphic and Herwurld. Although Herwurld does sound like slightly guilded, it's not too bad.
And I'm also putting my official copyright C on those names, I think they're pretty decent. Notheiving. Getcher own names.
But yeah. Try to be a little less ambitious and a little bit more realistic. Your chapter doesn't do everything...stop trying to make it out like they're...more than a chapter.
I can't explain it better than that really.
But yeah.
My opinion.
-Mykal Ah, but they know who they are, they just don't like telling anyone else. And when did I put that no one trusts them? I never put that... Seen Kingdom of Heaven? Huh? Tyranids? Now you're being silly... Ragnarok isn't a Nose name... For God's sake, he's the Angel of Death. You know? The Grim Reaper? No angelic names. That's it. End of conversation. And I'm not trying to make them seem like they're more than they really are. Well, maybe I am. I'm holding back on all of the secrets to be fair.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:17 am
Flashback, I think the naming is fine for a Chapter that is based on Holy Knights is fine really. They're a knightly order that once were very religious but that all changed. The name is following tradition.
So there.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:27 am
Okay, forget it. Let's make some changes shall we? 1. The Arch Angels will be less secular, meaning prayer and ritual will become a daily occurence in their lives. 2. Angelic names were there to begin with. Seeing as their Chapter Master is known as Gabriel Constantine. But if you insist, it'll be a mix of old English and 'Angelic.' 3. The ranking system will remain the same. They were going to be called the 'Pious Templars' but I liked the name Arch Angels better. 4.  How is that non-holy? WALKING SHRINE!
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:28 am
The Death Masque Ah, but they know who they are, they just don't like telling anyone else. And when did I put that no one trusts them? I never put that... Seen Kingdom of Heaven? Huh? Tyranids? Now you're being silly... Ragnarok isn't a Nose name... For God's sake, he's the Angel of Death. You know? The Grim Reaper? No angelic names. That's it. End of conversation. And I'm not trying to make them seem like they're more than they really are. Well, maybe I am. I'm holding back on all of the secrets to be fair.
You didn't say that nobody trusts them, but it seems that way. The Guard, the Inquisition, anyone really. They seem alone.
No I've not seen Kingdom of Heaven. You seen Perfect Stranger? Huh?
No, you said "enemy". That doesn't mean "Specificaly Chaos" to me. That says "Anyone they fight". If you're gonna go with that route, I say you steal the Dark Angel/Space Wolf sort of thing and just meld that into your Blood Raven style now.
Ragnarok is Norse Apocalypse I think. Or Rapture. Or End of Times. Something grand and flashy.
So what names do you want?
Mhm. An army that is "secret" this and "shrouded in mystery" that just comes off as "uninspired" this and "lazy writer" that. At least it does to me.
And for the record, Marines pray every day anyway.
:3
-Mykal
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:42 am
A.R.G.U.S Mykal The Death Masque Ah, but they know who they are, they just don't like telling anyone else. And when did I put that no one trusts them? I never put that... Seen Kingdom of Heaven? Huh? Tyranids? Now you're being silly... Ragnarok isn't a Nose name... For God's sake, he's the Angel of Death. You know? The Grim Reaper? No angelic names. That's it. End of conversation. And I'm not trying to make them seem like they're more than they really are. Well, maybe I am. I'm holding back on all of the secrets to be fair.
You didn't say that nobody trusts them, but it seems that way. The Guard, the Inquisition, anyone really. They seem alone.
No I've not seen Kingdom of Heaven. You seen Perfect Stranger? Huh?
No, you said "enemy". That doesn't mean "Specificaly Chaos" to me. That says "Anyone they fight". If you're gonna go with that route, I say you steal the Dark Angel/Space Wolf sort of thing and just meld that into your Blood Raven style now.
Ragnarok is Norse Apocalypse I think. Or Rapture. Or End of Times. Something grand and flashy.
So what names do you want?
Mhm. An army that is "secret" this and "shrouded in mystery" that just comes off as "uninspired" this and "lazy writer" that. At least it does to me.
And for the record, Marines pray every day anyway.
:3
-Mykal Your right Argus, Ragnarok is Norse, for the end of times when the gods will fight the Giants or whatever
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:58 am
The Death Masque Ragnarok isn't a Nose name... For God's sake, he's the Angel of Death. You know? The Grim Reaper? You are completely and totally wrong. You have no basis for this. Why don't you try looking it up? Even a simple google would have told you otherwise. A.R.G.U.S Mykal Mhm. An army that is "secret" this and "shrouded in mystery" that just comes off as "uninspired" this and "lazy writer" that. At least it does to me. There ya be. As for the rest of it, Masque, do whatever you want, I've stated my opinion and given my feedback (which you requested). If you want any other comments, criticisms, or recommendations, you know where to find me. wink
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:13 am
Fine fine fine, whatever.
People may as well not try and exercise imagination if there are people like you around just to ruin the fun. Total hardcore fluff fans are just lifeless pricks anyway.
The Arch Angels shall remain as they are. Your opinions are rubbish anyway. They pick at things that don't really matter.
And Flash, next time I request feedback, stay out off it. I won't be coming to you.
And yes, I did research it. Ragnarok: Fate from the Gods...
Hmmm... Sounds like an Angel of Death! That is the apocolypse after all, an Angel of Death!
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:11 pm
Can someone fill me in with whats
been hapening here?
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:36 pm
It'll take too long.
So here's a llama.
dramallama
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:32 pm
I was going to let it go, but you had to be an a*****e about it. The Death Masque Fine fine fine, whatever. People may as well not try and exercise imagination if there are people like you around just to ruin the fun. Total hardcore fluff fans are just lifeless pricks anyway. No, we're trying to give you suggestions on how to improve a derivative, hackneyed work with no originality whatsoever, and still manage to mesh with canon. You'll have none of it. Quote: The Arch Angels shall remain as they are. Your opinions are rubbish anyway. They pick at things that don't really matter. Hey, man: suck it. Don't ask for feedback then trash on people that make suggestions - and that's all you've done. If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have asked for opinions - if it didn't matter, you wouldn't have written it in the first place. Quote: And Flash, next time I request feedback, stay out off it. I won't be coming to you. As above, you've confused who the p***k is. Quote: And yes, I did research it. Ragnarok: Fate from the Gods... Hmmm... Sounds like an Angel of Death! That is the apocolypse after all, an Angel of Death! Fate OF the gods. It's an event, an era, not a person, place, or thing. It is not in any way an angel, especially not an angel of death. Even apocalypse and angel of death aren't synonymous. Just admit that you had no idea what it was and took the name because it sounded cool. If you'd done some research (which you didn't) you'd know that both Arch Angels and Zion refer to the Judeo-Christian 'mythology' (which I put in quotes for people who are Christian but may or may not believe in angels as a literally interpretation of God's will), in which case the Angel of Death is known as Azrael or Samael. If you were using Norse terminology (which you're not - just the one word that you're ignorant of), the closest thing to an angel of death would be Hel, but even that's mostly inaccurate, it would be like calling Hades or Pluto the angel of death, when, more accurately, death is merely their domain. Listen, if you're just going rip off history and mythology for your Chapter, at least do it well. Pick a theme and stick with it instead of just stealing and borrowing from anything you think sounds cool at the time. Or better yet, just write something original.
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