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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:16 am
Fatmandell What about the new Armoured Company - Leman Russ as a Troop Choice, How long would Space Marines last against 20 or so Battle Cannons See thread: Powergaming. Yes, someone CAN take that many, but does it lead to a fun, challenging, exciting game? no. two turns and the guards win. Not entertaining... If you play to win instead of for fun, you've missed the point of 40k.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:35 am
Cagalli Yura Attha Fatmandell What about the new Armoured Company - Leman Russ as a Troop Choice, How long would Space Marines last against 20 or so Battle Cannons See thread: Powergaming. Yes, someone CAN take that many, but does it lead to a fun, challenging, exciting game? no. two turns and the guards win. Not entertaining... If you play to win instead of for fun, you've missed the point of 40k. WOOT great post i agree 100% here. smile --kirk
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:38 am
Ach G-sus, ze pope und Ghandi with a gaffer stick in their poopers, not this crap again.
Why is it that Armoured Companies are seen as utter cheese and something that should see the entire Imperial Guard removed from the 40k universe? Why? You people should spend some time on one of the many IG forums and hear them talk about this, while their opinions are as split as yours, the AC is not something of a power gamer. Just because it has tanks does not mean that it's unbeatable...
1. Ordnance is inaccurate, especially on the move
2. Tanks are fragile, more fragile then they appear, especially when up against horde enemies or deep striking units
Bah, so much for happy-happy joy-joy feelings of victory.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:01 am
Lt_Brookman Ach G-sus, ze pope und Ghandi with a gaffer stick in their poopers, not this crap again. Why is it that Armoured Companies are seen as utter cheese and something that should see the entire Imperial Guard removed from the 40k universe? Why? You people should spend some time on one of the many IG forums and hear them talk about this, while their opinions are as split as yours, the AC is not something of a power gamer. Just because it has tanks does not mean that it's unbeatable... 1. Ordnance is inaccurate, especially on the move 2. Tanks are fragile, more fragile then they appear, especially when up against horde enemies or deep striking units Bah, so much for happy-happy joy-joy feelings of victory. I have NO qualm with fighting an imperial guard army. I do have a problem if they stick tanks with what? front armor 13? and only field THAT for their entire force organisation chart, each having an ordanance blast. one or two leman russ, a basilisk and some heavy weapons teams, and I wouldn't mind, because there's a chance those tanks WOULD go down. But "about 20 or so battle cannons" due to mass fielding leman russ in an armored company..? In respects you'd have a HUGE crater spanning the width of the deployment zone of their opposition. All the tanks have high armor, and the only way to defeat that type of armored company is to take LASCANNONS on everything that can have them, and assault cannons if they can't have a las. Failing that, a ******** rocket launcher. It might just work. The point of 40k is to have fun, if you've read the etiquette thread. Not to sit there with a wall of never moving battle cannons that damn well makes up for its inaccuracy with simple numbers that NO army has the strength to stop bar another armored company fielding an identical quantity of tanks. And you may well say "oh, but tanks die in close combat" and "deep strikers hurt", but in most tournys, rules are either RANDOM or ALPHA. If you're in alpha, you HAVE no deep strike rules. That means you have to make a run for it over the table. It'd take at least 3 turns to reach the other side and get there with jump packs. Now, if the enemy sees something going that fast that can hurt them, can you guess where those "20 or so battle cannons" are going to aim? stare PLAY 40k for the ENJOYMENT, not the "YOU DIDN'T EVEN HIT ME CUZ I'M SOOOOOOO GOOOOOD" factor most AC people seem to have. Any moron can sit behind a wall of battle cannons and claim victory. Not everyone can play a steady game and actually use tactics to their advantage.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:01 am
Cagalli Yura Attha Fatmandell What about the new Armoured Company - Leman Russ as a Troop Choice, How long would Space Marines last against 20 or so Battle Cannons See thread: Powergaming. Yes, someone CAN take that many, but does it lead to a fun, challenging, exciting game? no. two turns and the guards win. Not entertaining... If you play to win instead of for fun, you've missed the point of 40k. I can only agree with part of this. AC is an easy win if you know how to play to there weakness. usually a few charachters with melta bombs and jump packs and they go down. Tactics is a key thing in this game. and 20 pie plates is no big thing. Get close to them they will hit themselves. Lt_Brookman Ach G-sus, ze pope und Ghandi with a gaffer stick in their poopers, not this crap again. Why is it that Armoured Companies are seen as utter cheese and something that should see the entire Imperial Guard removed from the 40k universe? Why? You people should spend some time on one of the many IG forums and hear them talk about this, while their opinions are as split as yours, the AC is not something of a power gamer. Just because it has tanks does not mean that it's unbeatable... 1. Ordnance is inaccurate, especially on the move 2. Tanks are fragile, more fragile then they appear, especially when up against horde enemies or deep striking units Bah, so much for happy-happy joy-joy feelings of victory. I fully agree if it was not balanced it would not be in the game.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:09 am
Lozt_1 Cagalli Yura Attha Fatmandell What about the new Armoured Company - Leman Russ as a Troop Choice, How long would Space Marines last against 20 or so Battle Cannons See thread: Powergaming. Yes, someone CAN take that many, but does it lead to a fun, challenging, exciting game? no. two turns and the guards win. Not entertaining... If you play to win instead of for fun, you've missed the point of 40k. I can only agree with part of this. AC is an easy win if you know how to play to there weakness. usually a few charachters with melta bombs and jump packs and they go down. Tactics is a key thing in this game. and 20 pie plates is no big thing. Get close to them they will hit themselves. Lt_Brookman Ach G-sus, ze pope und Ghandi with a gaffer stick in their poopers, not this crap again. Why is it that Armoured Companies are seen as utter cheese and something that should see the entire Imperial Guard removed from the 40k universe? Why? You people should spend some time on one of the many IG forums and hear them talk about this, while their opinions are as split as yours, the AC is not something of a power gamer. Just because it has tanks does not mean that it's unbeatable... 1. Ordnance is inaccurate, especially on the move 2. Tanks are fragile, more fragile then they appear, especially when up against horde enemies or deep striking units Bah, so much for happy-happy joy-joy feelings of victory. I fully agree if it was not balanced it would not be in the game. please read my post made in reply to that. If you're in alpha, all you have is mobility. And if a tank commander has 20 battle cannons and sees a fast moving unit capable of hitting his tanks, GUESS where he'll place his center of fire.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:18 am
Cagalli Yura Attha Lozt_1 Cagalli Yura Attha Fatmandell What about the new Armoured Company - Leman Russ as a Troop Choice, How long would Space Marines last against 20 or so Battle Cannons See thread: Powergaming. Yes, someone CAN take that many, but does it lead to a fun, challenging, exciting game? no. two turns and the guards win. Not entertaining... If you play to win instead of for fun, you've missed the point of 40k. I can only agree with part of this. AC is an easy win if you know how to play to there weakness. usually a few charachters with melta bombs and jump packs and they go down. Tactics is a key thing in this game. and 20 pie plates is no big thing. Get close to them they will hit themselves. Lt_Brookman Ach G-sus, ze pope und Ghandi with a gaffer stick in their poopers, not this crap again. Why is it that Armoured Companies are seen as utter cheese and something that should see the entire Imperial Guard removed from the 40k universe? Why? You people should spend some time on one of the many IG forums and hear them talk about this, while their opinions are as split as yours, the AC is not something of a power gamer. Just because it has tanks does not mean that it's unbeatable... 1. Ordnance is inaccurate, especially on the move 2. Tanks are fragile, more fragile then they appear, especially when up against horde enemies or deep striking units Bah, so much for happy-happy joy-joy feelings of victory. I fully agree if it was not balanced it would not be in the game. please read my post made in reply to that. If you're in alpha, all you have is mobility. And if a tank commander has 20 battle cannons and sees a fast moving unit capable of hitting his tanks, GUESS where he'll place his center of fire. Terminators ALWAYS deep strike. If they scatter in the enemy lines of an AC they still are close enough to kill something. I dont fear the pie plate. I might be a Freak; but I enjoy a challenge and have not found it against AC.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:19 am
Lozt_1 Terminators ALWAYS deep strike. If they scatter in the enemy lines of an AC they still are close enough to kill something. I dont fear the pie plate. I might be a Freak; but I enjoy a challenge and have not found it against AC. Then you've not played against the type of armored company that was queried. ONLY terminators would be able to do it. The rest of your army? During an alpha match? toast. What if the tanks your termies are killing explodes? Or they don't consolidate into a tank? DEATH. Then you're ********.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:32 am
Cagalli Yura Attha Lozt_1 Terminators ALWAYS deep strike. If they scatter in the enemy lines of an AC they still are close enough to kill something. I dont fear the pie plate. I might be a Freak; but I enjoy a challenge and have not found it against AC. Then you've not played against the type of armored company that was queried. ONLY terminators would be able to do it. The rest of your army? During an alpha match? toast. What if the tanks your termies are killing explodes? Or they don't consolidate into a tank? DEATH. Then you're ******** class="clear"> No cause if they land where I intend them too they will have loads of rear armor penetration fun. And if the person goes to run from the termies he is going to get close to the rest of my army. Either way he is in for a world of hurt. Also with 20 tanks on the field they are all going to be reletivly close togeather. Especially since the average table is 4X6. Also most his tanks need LOS to shoot anything. The best part of the AC rules is that if you dont want to play against them thn tell them no you can't use AC. It is the first rule of them Permission of opponent.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:34 am
I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles.
This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices.
And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters?
But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:53 am
Lt_Brookman I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles. This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices. And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters? But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here. I know all this. I attempt to stay really current on the rules. I just like to talk over the values of powergameing as it is way over rated. Also not as bad as some people think it is.
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:51 am
Lozt_1 Lt_Brookman I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles. This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices. And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters? But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here. I know all this. I attempt to stay really current on the rules. I just like to talk over the values of powergameing as it is way over rated. Also not as bad as some people think it is. Having played against an 'Pure-Never-Defeated-Tank-Army', I can say that the only effective way to beat mentioned Tread-heads is to use Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts. Both have the armour, and the firepower to knock out a Leman Russ, no matter what pattern it is. And under the new Marine Codex, normal Dreads can be upgraded to Venerable Dreads, allowing them a greater lifespan on the battlefield. My only armour choices in my armys is always a Venerable Dread and a Land Raider. In Larger games I add some of the other Land Raider variants. If you don't have access to these wonderful machines of death (*cough* XENOS SCUM *cough*) then an insane amount of heavy weapons will do. Just my opinion. Bro Adeaus
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:08 am
Brother_Adeaus Lozt_1 Lt_Brookman I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles. This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices. And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters? But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here. I know all this. I attempt to stay really current on the rules. I just like to talk over the values of powergameing as it is way over rated. Also not as bad as some people think it is. Having played against an 'Pure-Never-Defeated-Tank-Army', I can say that the only effective way to beat mentioned Tread-heads is to use Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts. Both have the armour, and the firepower to knock out a Leman Russ, no matter what pattern it is. And under the new Marine Codex, normal Dreads can be upgraded to Venerable Dreads, allowing them a greater lifespan on the battlefield. My only armour choices in my armys is always a Venerable Dread and a Land Raider. In Larger games I add some of the other Land Raider variants. If you don't have access to these wonderful machines of death (*cough* XENOS SCUM *cough*) then an insane amount of heavy weapons will do. Just my opinion. Bro Adeaus Try using eldar some time loads and loads of lances can clear AC really quick...
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:23 am
Lozt_1 Brother_Adeaus Lozt_1 Lt_Brookman I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles. This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices. And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters? But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here. I know all this. I attempt to stay really current on the rules. I just like to talk over the values of powergameing as it is way over rated. Also not as bad as some people think it is. Having played against an 'Pure-Never-Defeated-Tank-Army', I can say that the only effective way to beat mentioned Tread-heads is to use Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts. Both have the armour, and the firepower to knock out a Leman Russ, no matter what pattern it is. And under the new Marine Codex, normal Dreads can be upgraded to Venerable Dreads, allowing them a greater lifespan on the battlefield. My only armour choices in my armys is always a Venerable Dread and a Land Raider. In Larger games I add some of the other Land Raider variants. If you don't have access to these wonderful machines of death (*cough* XENOS SCUM *cough*) then an insane amount of heavy weapons will do. Just my opinion. Bro Adeaus Try using eldar some time loads and loads of lances can clear AC really quick... Don't insult me by suggesting I sully myself with xeno-tech.
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:29 am
Lozt_1 Brother_Adeaus Lozt_1 Lt_Brookman I should probably mention that an AC could field up to 10 normal Russ tanks at the most, along with three artilelry tanks and three fast vehicles. This is not the old list where squadrons are troop choices, here one tank is one whole choice. Things are balanced out by overpricing the commander and tank aces, which are required in order to take normal tanks as troop choices. And one other thing, there is more to an Armoured Coy then just the normal Russ tanks, have people forgotten about the meatgrinders and tankhunters? But I'll shut up before I get on the wrong side of people here. I know all this. I attempt to stay really current on the rules. I just like to talk over the values of powergameing as it is way over rated. Also not as bad as some people think it is. Having played against an 'Pure-Never-Defeated-Tank-Army', I can say that the only effective way to beat mentioned Tread-heads is to use Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts. Both have the armour, and the firepower to knock out a Leman Russ, no matter what pattern it is. And under the new Marine Codex, normal Dreads can be upgraded to Venerable Dreads, allowing them a greater lifespan on the battlefield. My only armour choices in my armys is always a Venerable Dread and a Land Raider. In Larger games I add some of the other Land Raider variants. If you don't have access to these wonderful machines of death (*cough* XENOS SCUM *cough*) then an insane amount of heavy weapons will do. Just my opinion. Bro Adeaus Try using eldar some time loads and loads of lances can clear AC really quick... yeah except when you are shooting with a bright lance it is going to be hitting 2/3rds of the time and then getting a possible destroying hit 1/2 of the time. This means that you can only destory a tank 1/3rd of the time. Not exactly gonna cause a armored company to shake in their booties.
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