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Dewdew

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:43 pm


last question, and no you don;t have to answer of you really don;t want to
How old are you?

And my life story is pretty boring. The only interesting thing is I won a scholarship from my school for studying maths at tertiary level (but only because I was the only one eligible for the award). Oh, and i won that scholarship thing for economics and statistics. Though heaps of people get that particular scholarship, and I didn't get one of the top awards.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:19 am


My life story's mostly just about teaching myself...basically everything.

Note: I sorely apologize for the unnecessarily long post. You'd probably do better by not reading it.

I wasn't good at math until I got to 8th grade...I had horrible teachers before then, and couldn't even multiply or divide fractions or do long division. But I learned algebra that year, and then went on to high school.

Freshman year of high school I had a really good geometry teacher, but that was about it. She gave me a book - Zero, by Charles Seiffer (sp?) - which I read religiously. In the back, it had the formula for the derivative of a function. I spent the summer learning what a function was, how to do limits, and applying the derivative formula to *every* function I could come up with.

Sophomore year I took Alg. II and precalc, as well as AP chem, and took the AP calc BC test on my own (since my school didn't have any calculus class). By then I had learned that you don't have to do *everything* from the definition of the derivative, which was nice.

Junior year, I took AP physics B (all my school offered), but I took the AP stats and physics C (Mech and EM) tests. I started studying differential equations that year, too.

Senior year, I just kinda coasted, as far as classes go. But when it came to the AP tests, I took bio, enviro. sci, comp sci AB, english language, and english lit. My school didn't offer enviro sci or comp sci. I also took 3 courses at the community college senior year: intro philosophy, east asian religion and philosophy, and partial differential equations.

So, during high school, I taught myself a great number of subjects...'cos that works in high school. That, and I had an absolutely horrible high school: 80% dropout rate, 5% of all students go to college, 75% under the poverty line. So, coming to Princeton was a totally different experience.

When I got here, I was at the bottom of the pack in *all* subjects...and I still didn't know if I wanted to do math or physics. So, in the past two years, I've had
5 physics courses (Newton mech, EM, lagrange and hamilton mech, grad quantum I, and experimental)
6 math courses (single-var analysis, linear algebra, multivar analysis, algebra with Galois theory, Fourier analysis, and grad course in noncommutative algebra)

And my grades have been mediocre, until recently. Almost everyone in my math classes had introductions to analysis very early on, or at least didn't have to teach themselves the prerequisites. I had never been in a math or science competition, my school didn't have a math club, wah wah wah. Point is, I'm finally getting to the point where my peers don't have several more years of experience in the subject than I do.

Upcoming courses: complex analysis, differential geometry, political game theory (my "humanities" course), grad course in QFT, and independent work in knot theory (a seminar).

Swordmaster Dragon


Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:42 am


Dewdew
last question, and no you don;t have to answer of you really don;t want to
How old are you?


I'm 19, turning 20 in the spring. This means that I won't be able to start drinking legally until right at the beginning of senior finals period. sweatdrop
It's kinda weird, because this makes me younger than basically everyone else in my classes. While I'm not exactly unused to this, I'm sort of just "the kid" to a bunch of people.
It doesn't help that I look like I'm 12 and act like I'm 6.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:00 pm


Swordmaster Dragon

And my grades have been mediocre, until recently. Almost everyone in my math classes had introductions to analysis very early on, or at least didn't have to teach themselves the prerequisites. I had never been in a math or science competition, my school didn't have a math club, wah wah wah. Point is, I'm finally getting to the point where my peers don't have several more years of experience in the subject than I do.

Upcoming courses: complex analysis, differential geometry, political game theory (my "humanities" course), grad course in QFT, and independent work in knot theory (a seminar).


I should think you would be ahead of your classmates just of how you taught yourself everything. Not a lot of people do that. and I'm taking complex analysis in the spring term too!

nonameladyofsins


maine coon kitty

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:19 pm


Layra-chan
A whole thread all about me! I'm so flattered!

Yeah, I'm an undergrad majoring in mathematics (pure) with a minor in theoretical physics. I branch into other things when I find them to be mathematical enough, such as linguistics or computer science, but my first love is mathematics. To me, there is nothing so beautiful as a tautology stretched thin enough to see through, a shimmering silk made of nothing but daydreams and flights of fancy.

More specifically, if this means anything to you, I'm looking into differential geometry and topology, although this takes me in all sorts of directions thanks to everything actually being algebra or analysis.
I also look into number theory from time to time, simply because number theory is so ludicrous. In a good way.

I don't know what that is... xp
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:40 pm


Layra-chan
Dewdew
last question, and no you don;t have to answer of you really don;t want to
How old are you?


I'm 19, turning 20 in the spring. This means that I won't be able to start drinking legally until right at the beginning of senior finals period. sweatdrop
It's kinda weird, because this makes me younger than basically everyone else in my classes. While I'm not exactly unused to this, I'm sort of just "the kid" to a bunch of people.
It doesn't help that I look like I'm 12 and act like I'm 6.


Where i'm from you can legally drink from the age 18. Not that I've actually gotten drunk yet. Just something about putting all those chemiclas iny our body, that do all sorts of crazy things. Same reason i don't drink coffee.

Oh, and my current calculus professor is probably the reason I am studying maths. his wife taught at my primary (elementary) school and he used to give the school supplementary material for the bright students (ie me). He even taught me the guitar for two years.

Though that supplementary material is probably the reason i was so bored the first year of highschool (I knew it all already) i still wish the school had let me skip that maths and go to the next level up. And when i was 15 i spent most of the time in maths teaching everyone else what the teacher was trying to teach them
(she was one of those super smart people who has problems teaching the really basic stuff, as it just seems so basic to her)

Dewdew


A Lost Iguana
Crew

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:55 pm


If you want life stories then I somehow got myself through university and got out with a reasonable degree, then decided after a few months of being a bum and failed job applications, that as I didn't have any other real plans I would go for a PhD in experimental HEP — I did my final year dissertation project in the HEP group, even that was by chance, I was talked into it by my supervisor: he warned me away from quantum mechanics saying no one has any real clue. Of course, that's just his approach to lots of things. So I applied to my old university and another place, got into both but decided to stay in London because I preferred the city.

Now I'm in Chicago and I'm approaching the end of my second year. After nearly being kicked out back in March because I'm awful at giving talks. sweatdrop

In the context of my time before university, I was one of the notorious ones in my school for grades. Though, I didn't learn how to revise until my first year at university, so I don't think I always did as well as I could have done when I was younger. The other option is that I'm just not very good at what I do, which is something I always keep in mind.

My one big regret [okay, two] is that the structure of my maths education has been terrible. My class at the time ran out of time to do integration properly while still at "school" [the 6th college attached to my old school], and that the university's way of teaching meant that I did not get all the nourishing and more rigourous maths classes from the mathematics department: it was all physicists and the mathematical methods required. A friend who I've sadly fallen out of touch with remarked after our final exams — obviously having a drink in the union bar — that the main physics stream really should have done more proper maths, he being a joint maths and physics honours; he was right. So that's regret one.

Regret two is simple: I passed on the classes to study GR [the maths and cosmology] because I was already taking all the other advanced courses. GRs a big hole in my physics education that I'm just too lazy to fill with solo work. C'est la vie.

Ramble, ramble. Here's a kitty:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:13 pm


A Lost Iguana
Ramble, ramble. Here's a kitty:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


You're a kitty! Yes you are! And you're sitting there! Hi, kitty!

Yeah, that differential geometry/GTR course I took was definitely a highlight of my college career so far. GTR is just so beautiful.

Layra-chan
Crew


Swordmaster Dragon

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:26 am


poweroutage
Swordmaster Dragon

And my grades have been mediocre, until recently. Almost everyone in my math classes had introductions to analysis very early on, or at least didn't have to teach themselves the prerequisites. I had never been in a math or science competition, my school didn't have a math club, wah wah wah. Point is, I'm finally getting to the point where my peers don't have several more years of experience in the subject than I do.

Upcoming courses: complex analysis, differential geometry, political game theory (my "humanities" course), grad course in QFT, and independent work in knot theory (a seminar).


I should think you would be ahead of your classmates just of how you taught yourself everything. Not a lot of people do that. and I'm taking complex analysis in the spring term too!


That's kewl; I get someone to suffer with! Actually, I took Fourier analysis with the same professor as complex - Elias Stein - and I love him to death. That, and his classes are 70% homework with ridiculously easy tests, which is how I believe math should be taught.

No, that doesn't put me ahead of everyone else, when they learned the same things but had actual teachers. If I've taught myself multivar calc senior year of high school, that doesn't put me in a position to compete with someone who took it as a class their sophomore year, and have since taken complex and multivar analysis. I had also not seen a proof until I took analysis in college. I'm glad I finally caught up, though.

Grarg! There are too many awesome courses that I want to take! I'm taking the first semesters of differential geometry and QFT in the fall, but that means I have to put off GTR until senior fall. AND there's a "topics in geometry" course focusing solely on applications of geometry to GR, AND a course in "math applications" focusing on classical mechanics! ARG!!

Still, I love my course schedule. 3 math classes, 1 mathematical physics class, and 1 humanities course...in political game theory, with problem sets.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:55 am


Oh joy, life stories.

Born in Germany, moved around a lot, etc, etc, I eventually found myself in a selective high school in Sydney, Australia.
The NSW HSC doesn't have much in the way of advanced courses. There is no AP physics or equivalent, etc. Eventually I graduated after doing next to no work all throughout high school, with enough marks to get into the course I wanted, and not much more.
This is a trend that has continued through Uni so far, with most of my time going into co-corricular activities, such as the circus society, and sitting around being bored. I still haven't failed anything from doing no work, which is likely what I'd need to make me start actually putting effort in.
I am lazy.

Near the end of that I found out about the various Olympiads, and ended up getting into the scholar schools for informatics and physics. Informatics I couldn't go to, physics was good fun, and you ended up being taught basically the entire first year physics course in two weeks.


I'm currently an undergraduate studying a combined Computer Engineering/Science degree, and I'm planning on majoring in physics for the science.
Yay for five year degrees.
So far however, it's been all computer engineering except for the engineering physics.

On a personal side, I like physics, but have done very little self-study in the area, so my knowledge is basic Uni level, ditto maths.
Programming I am very interested in, and have been competing in programming competitions for many years, as well as the whole degree thing.

Dave the lost


The Mathematician

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:52 am


Layra-chan
I'm 19, turning 20 in the spring. This means that I won't be able to start drinking legally until right at the beginning of senior finals period.

Oh man I'm the same way. I turn 21 a month before I graduate. It kind of sucks.


In case anyone is curious I'm a rising senior at Dartmouth College, majoring in math and minoring in French. I suck at algebra and number theory, like topology and analysis, and am trying to wrangle up a thesis proposal in operator theory. I went to high school at a program called TAMS (Texas Academy of Math and Science) and graduated there with basically two years of college credit from a Texas state university, but of course none of it transferred. I have no idea what I'll be doing this year, but hopefully it will be: research, complex analysis, some geometry, and maybe more logic, more topology, more analysis.

I'm also trying to sort out where I want to go to grad school. This process is a bit more complicated than it is normally, because my boyfriend is also a math student looking for a PhD. And of course his interests are completely different from mine: he's a published combinatorialist. But ideally we'll find a place suitable for both of us, either at the same school or in the same city.

So, uh, hey guys. 3nodding
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:28 pm


Swordmaster Dragon
I had also not seen a proof until I took analysis in college.

And they let you into Princeton? ;P
But seriously, how did you not see any proofs if you taught yourself calculus?

The Mathematician


Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:08 pm


The Mathematician
Swordmaster Dragon
I had also not seen a proof until I took analysis in college.

And they let you into Princeton? ;P
But seriously, how did you not see any proofs if you taught yourself calculus?


Calculus actually wouldn't stand up to rigorous inquiry, so calculus "proofs" are actually kinda handwavey. Sure, there's a bit of epsilon-delta stuff, but nothing that could really be considered an actual proof, rather than just an argument or a heuristic.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:39 pm


Layra-chan
The Mathematician
Swordmaster Dragon
I had also not seen a proof until I took analysis in college.

And they let you into Princeton? ;P
But seriously, how did you not see any proofs if you taught yourself calculus?


Calculus actually wouldn't stand up to rigorous inquiry, so calculus "proofs" are actually kinda handwavey. Sure, there's a bit of epsilon-delta stuff, but nothing that could really be considered an actual proof, rather than just an argument or a heuristic.


Green's Theorem, Stokes's Theorem, Schwarz's (Clairaut's) Theorem? All of those involve proofs, and there are a number of exercises in calculus books that involve proofs besides epsilon-delta derivative proofs. And let's not mention the fact that most of elementary calculus could be taught with proofs integrated right into the curriculum (believe it or not, sometimes it is). And what do you mean "wouldn't stand up to rigorous inquiry"? Are you saying it's invalid or false? Theorems, formulae, and other content in any calculus class is most likely just as valid as what you get in a more advanced math class, and would stand just as much "rigourous inquiry."

The Mathematician


Layra-chan
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:40 pm


The Mathematician
Layra-chan
The Mathematician
Swordmaster Dragon
I had also not seen a proof until I took analysis in college.

And they let you into Princeton? ;P
But seriously, how did you not see any proofs if you taught yourself calculus?


Calculus actually wouldn't stand up to rigorous inquiry, so calculus "proofs" are actually kinda handwavey. Sure, there's a bit of epsilon-delta stuff, but nothing that could really be considered an actual proof, rather than just an argument or a heuristic.


Green's Theorem, Stokes's Theorem, Schwarz's (Clairaut's) Theorem? All of those involve proofs, and there are a number of exercises in calculus books that involve proofs besides epsilon-delta derivative proofs. And let's not mention the fact that most of elementary calculus could be taught with proofs integrated right into the curriculum (believe it or not, sometimes it is). And what do you mean "wouldn't stand up to rigorous inquiry"? Are you saying it's invalid or false? Theorems, formulae, and other content in any calculus class is most likely just as valid as what you get in a more advanced math class, and would stand just as much "rigourous inquiry."


I'm speaking of the terrible definition that calculus gives to Riemann sums. Note specifically that I'm distinguishing between calculus and analysis. Calculus is the stuff you see in high school and non-math major college classes.

I can't think of anything particularly problematic about calculus's definition of differentiation, but calculus integrals definitely don't work under close examination.

In calculus, we say that a Riemann sum is given by summing over N intervals of length a/N and then letting N go to infinity. A bit of elementary measure theory shows that this doesn't make any sense, since a/N doesn't go to a measurable length as the integer N goes to alpha_0.
In order to get a definition that actually works, the Riemann sum would have to be, as in analysis, over 2^N intervals of length a2^-N, with very special properties about what kind of intervals these are. This doesn't look like a significant difference from calculus at first glance, but it is.

Furthermore, I can't say that I've ever heard of a calculus class where Stoke's theorem or its special cases have been proved rigorously. At best there is some handwaving about cancellation and taking limits of sums, but as demonstrated above, a calculus limit doesn't actually work.
I'm not actually convinced that Stoke's theorem can be proven without the machinery of differential forms or something equivalent, and you are definitely not going to see that in a calculus class.
What you do see a lot of in calculus classes are derivations of formulae; I don't consider these to be proofs.

While it is true that you do see some things that could be considered proofs, such as perhaps bounding formulae for infinite series, there is still not much that a college math major should consider to be a solid proof built off of axioms and definitions.
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