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Vladimir_Lenin

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:58 pm


The_Wicked_Man
Vladimir_Lenin
The way I look at it is this;
You could call Buddhism Christianity, a Rose a Tulip or a rock a cloud; does that make those things what you're calling them? ******** no. My point being that I may use the word "theory", does that mean it's what I truly think it is?


Thank you for confessing your love of ******** and raping 8-year-olds. Your statements have been forwarded to the proper authorities.



But did you really confess to that? ******** no. My point being that, contrary to what every single person on Gaia with socialist and communist ideals I've happened to cross paths with wants to argue, language cannot be this subjective. If words and language could be interpreted this freely on an individual level and any word can mean, literally, anything, then communication between two or more people and the sharing of ideas would be completely impossible, and if I can't subjectively interpret everything you just said as a criminal confession, then we can't supply any definition we want to the words "Buddhism," "rock," "rose," and "theory" other than the ones recognized in an English dictionary.

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Again, by the same coin, by using the name "Commie" I've given the connotation that I'm anti-American or in the least more supportive of a foreign power.
Does that mean I am? No. Does that mean it's the title I like? No. Will the majority recognize it? Yes.


This is a non-issue and completely irrelevant. The impressions (that's what the word "connotation" implies--a personal impression) people have of something based on individual preferences, values, and experiences has absolutely nothing to do with what a word REALLY means and fails to explain ANYTHING being discussed here.

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If you're going to peck and prod at the terminology that society has deemed and my use of it to give people a better idea of my beliefs (in a non-religious sense), then I doubt this will develop into anymore than a vocabulary-based pissing-contest.
Of which I do not care to partake.


You're replacing the definition for the term "theory" with the one for "fact" and are very likely using the word (in the way you're using it) to describe events which lack sufficient evidence in order to be called "fact" in the first place. Quite frankly, if any word you are using can potentially mean something other than what it means in English, I'm not sure if anyone you're trying to convey an idea towards, myself included, can determine what your beliefs actually are. If you want people to properly understand you, cut the bullshit and use English words the way they're intended to be used.

You're trying to prove to me that I don't believe what I do because of what English says?
Ok.
I'll admit, I use the wrong term; does that mean I'm lieing, or that I'm wrong?
I'll leave that open to your perception and discretion.

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With governmental actions slowly seeping into our personal lives and becoming no better than the Totalitarian states we faced off with in the 40s and 50s, how do we have any guarantee that our current lives won't be disrupted tomorrow?


The Constitution of the United States of America and the system of checks and balances detailed within it, for one. The only reason why the Executive Branch managed get anything done was because of support from both the House of Representatives and Senate, but with a Democratic majority in both Houses now, we have a divided government, and with the president's approval rating hovering around 25%, the Executive Branch is less likely to get any support from Congress.

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. . . the only thing that's assuring tomorrow's freedom today is the government's whimsy.


This system of government was intentionally designed to prevent something like this from ever happening! The president can't just wake up one morning and say, "You know, I think I'm going to persecute everyone who speaks negatively of me today." One, it's against the Constitution so he can't decide on a whim to do such a thing without being tried with treason. Two, he would need support from 3/4 of Congress to amend the Constitution to give him this kind of authority, and he would never receive that much support from the legislature so he could do something as selfish as that.

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My main example is that of the Patriot's Act. This Act (now in effect) allows the government with so much as the suspicion you're a "Terrorist", which is just this generation's go-to-guy, they can override your fourth Amendment rights allowing them full access to all your items, information and otherwise without warrant or consent.


The key phrase here is "with so much as the suspicion that you're a terrorist." Are you conspiring to commit mass murder on US soil for the sole purpose of dismantling the United States government? If not, then the government isn't interested in your phone calls and e-mail.

Also, if one of the key requirements for issuing a warrant is suspicion of a crime, as stated in the 4th Amendment, and the USA PATRIOT Act requires such suspicion in order for these powers to be exercised, how exactly is this overriding my 4th Amendment rights? Additionally, consent is irrelevant if they have suspicion and a warrant.


I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the American system of government, please don't attempt to lecture me on such things.
Give that yes, a warrant does not "override" the fourth amendment give that it has a specifically states that the warrant is the end of the Amendment's protection, and that a warrant cannot be obtained until reasonable suspicion is given; it also states the warrant must be specific here it's open to the authorities translation what an item that terrorists would us is.

As for the monitoring, if I make the wrong joke I can be watched?
If I mention the news which might involve terrorist activities I could be?


Anyway, I can see this is an argument rooted in political views and upbringing-morals, such are those fought throughout the world for far too long.
Let's face it, we both think we're right, and whatever the other side says won't budge.
Call this a cop-out, call it a back-down, call it a surrender
because I don't care.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm


~zzang~
Vladimir_Lenin
I, myself, am one of those "Loonies".

I think that the presidents (the grand majority anyway) where free masons, 9/11 was (to at least some extent) planned/executed by your government, and JFK was shot by more than one individual.
That doesn't make me think you're insane if you don't agree, I just don't think you're right. Zippity-doo-da.
That's what America was founded on; freedom on all levels, so shouldn't that be especially true in our own minds?

Basically making the generalization that theorist=hostile-and-insane is making the McCarthy-style leap that Communist/Socialist/Marxist=(Not only the same thing but also)Radical Terrorist.

Side-Note; I'm also a Socialist.


(And this probably SO alienated me)
It hasn't alienated you from me. But I will warn you I am an avid defender of the "reward system". Not capitalism per se but some sort of earned reward and capitalism is easiest of the long list. So I am prepared to defend my veiw.

Well, I'm not completely devoted to either system of government (seeing as most likely the best government is none, but anarchy requires too much of the human mindset to be removed [that being, "why work when I can beat that guy and steal what he's worked for and continue not to work?" thusly degradation through such activities]) so I believe that a government that slowly removes itself is best.
But, Social/Communism is flawed, and I do believe could be perfected with some Democratic ideas.
As an example, lets say you get a $2000 paycheck, but social commonwealth takes $700 in taxes but later in the week you get a government issued check for $150.
Like an instant tax-refunding. Or the country being on pension or Welfare.

The biggest problem with this system?
What's the incentive to work if I could just skim by on the government issued checks?
Criminal punishment as a degenerate of society.
Which might even be an upgrade from your s**t life on that kind of money.

But the point of Socialism was to create a Utopia, which translate from Latin means "No Place".
It's an Idealist's system and I'm aware it's impossible; does that mean I cannot want it?

Vladimir_Lenin


The_Wicked_Man

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:59 pm


Vladimir_Lenin
You're trying to prove to me that I don't believe what I do because of what English says?


Actually, I'm pointing out that what you say you believe and the words you use to describe those beliefs produce contradictory and baffling statements.


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I'll admit, I use the wrong term; does that mean I'm lieing, or that I'm wrong?


Lying about what? That you know the truth about stuff like the Kennedy Assassination, among other things said? No, I'm just thinking that you are jumping to conclusions in a case like that because there's insufficient evidence to call such a claim as yours a "fact," and there is too much information which contradicts the conspiracies you claim. At best, you're just jumping to conclusions and need to slow down.

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I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the American system of government . . .


Then you should have known how absurd it is to make a claim such as, ". . . the only thing that's assuring tomorrow's freedom today is the government's whimsy" is, correct?

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it also states the warrant must be specific here it's open to the authorities translation what an item that terrorists would us is.


No, I'm pretty sure "terrorism" is just limited to conspiring to commit and/or committing acts of mass murder with political gain or the intention of disrupting normal life and business procedures throughout the country being the stated motive, and that's pretty specific. I don't think anyone who just downright disapproves of the government's actions is in any danger of being monitored--especially if the president's approval rating is hovering around 25% because the government does not have the resources to successfully monitor 3/4's of the country.

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As for the monitoring, if I make the wrong joke I can be watched?


If you pull a Jake Brahm "joke," maybe, but why would you (or even want to) do that?

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If I mention the news which might involve terrorist activities I could be?


Uh, no because if it's a news story the information is public knowledge and not exactly highly sensitive and/or secretive information that the government would be interested in. There's a difference between conspiring to commit a crime and discussing something seen on the news.

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Anyway, I can see this is an argument rooted in political views and upbringing-morals, such are those fought throughout the world for far too long.


I don't agree with the government's view on any of this, either, and I am 100% sure that the War on Terrorism will be a failure. However, I am also certain that there is nothing to be paranoid about.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:29 am


Vladimir_Lenin
LV; I don't seem to be following completely, who are the "those people"? The "Theorists"?
If so, yes, it would be in all facets of modern society and all we've come to know as "Everyday Life" would be stricken right through with a bold-face marker.


Yes, I did mean the "theorists". As for the rest, it was answered in a similar fashion as to what I would say, so I won't bother to repeat it. It's a waste of all our times.

Vladimir_Lenin
Maybe I'm paranoid,
maybe you're scared,
maybe a rocket will fall out of the sky and ignite all persons wearing green with white phosphorous.

Who knows?


True, maybe all people wearing green may be struck down with white phosphorous, making me a huge target due to my preference for that color, but I very much doubt it would be due to the guv'ment's whimsy. More like it's incompetence.

Lord Vyce
Captain

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