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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:03 am
kingpinsqeezels nathan_ngl kingpinsqeezels What about the idea that perhaps G-d's time is completely different from our own? Who says one day to Him is only 24 hours? ...It's a thought. Perhaps 7 days is really 7 billion years? It's a stretch, but we don't have any Atheists in here telling us we're all wrong, so might as well analyze every theory. Did you read my post? sweatdrop Errr sweatdrop Sorry. But hey...at least I concluded that on my own! Now I feel smart! 3nodding Well, it's better feel smart than open your mouth and prove it... Oh, wait sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:24 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:34 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:43 pm
Yeah, seriously. All I did was not read something. Sue me.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:04 pm
Agreed; don't worry about it King.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:35 pm
nathan_ngl This was transelated from our textbook summary of Machshevet Yisyoel - Dat u'mada (basically translated as "Jewish thought - Religion and science"). The following is the theory of Rabbi Yehezkiel EpshteinAccording to Judaism, creation was not "inevitable", rather it was by G-d's will. As long as this concept is understood and accepted, there is no clash between the theory of evolution and the Torah, because then we may say that it was simply g-d's will that the world be created through evolution. The theory of evolution does not stand against the Torah, in fact, it is very appropriate for Judaism's concepts, which state that everything evolves and changes slowly - Nothing stays the same way it is, no matter how slow or small the change is. Nothing just "happens", everything takes time. This fact is true for everything - even people. But one may ask - "If we look into the book of Genesis at the story of creation, we see a few things which don't fit well with the theory of evolution. How is it possible to say the creation was slow? The Torah says it took only seven days!". However, if we look closer, we can point out the solution to these problems. 1. The stages of evolution were very slow, each stage was based on it's previous stage. This is what the Torah tried to emphasize. 2. For that reason, the term "Day" should not be taken literally, the same way that the "And g-d said" should not be taken literally. The meaning of the term "Day" was a metaphor, hinting at the chronological order of creation. For G-d, the term "Day" does not have a limited meaning, as it has been stated in Psalms "Elef shanim kayom etmol ki ya'avor" (A thousand years is but like the passing of a day for G-d). The amount of time which passed during these stages is not defined, and the term "Day" was merely meant to show there was a chronological order in which G-d set evolution to take it's path. The more science evolves and discovers the truths and working of G-d's world, we can understand G-d better through the way his world works. Creation itself is teaching us the lesson of change, nothing ever changes suddenly, and everything is ever-changing. -.- I swear sometimes I wonder if you have a life nathan.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:07 am
YvetteEmilieDupont nathan_ngl This was transelated from our textbook summary of Machshevet Yisyoel - Dat u'mada (basically translated as "Jewish thought - Religion and science"). The following is the theory of Rabbi Yehezkiel EpshteinAccording to Judaism, creation was not "inevitable", rather it was by G-d's will. As long as this concept is understood and accepted, there is no clash between the theory of evolution and the Torah, because then we may say that it was simply g-d's will that the world be created through evolution. The theory of evolution does not stand against the Torah, in fact, it is very appropriate for Judaism's concepts, which state that everything evolves and changes slowly - Nothing stays the same way it is, no matter how slow or small the change is. Nothing just "happens", everything takes time. This fact is true for everything - even people. But one may ask - "If we look into the book of Genesis at the story of creation, we see a few things which don't fit well with the theory of evolution. How is it possible to say the creation was slow? The Torah says it took only seven days!". However, if we look closer, we can point out the solution to these problems. 1. The stages of evolution were very slow, each stage was based on it's previous stage. This is what the Torah tried to emphasize. 2. For that reason, the term "Day" should not be taken literally, the same way that the "And g-d said" should not be taken literally. The meaning of the term "Day" was a metaphor, hinting at the chronological order of creation. For G-d, the term "Day" does not have a limited meaning, as it has been stated in Psalms "Elef shanim kayom etmol ki ya'avor" (A thousand years is but like the passing of a day for G-d). The amount of time which passed during these stages is not defined, and the term "Day" was merely meant to show there was a chronological order in which G-d set evolution to take it's path. The more science evolves and discovers the truths and working of G-d's world, we can understand G-d better through the way his world works. Creation itself is teaching us the lesson of change, nothing ever changes suddenly, and everything is ever-changing. -.- I swear sometimes I wonder if you have a life nathan. Oh, and king, it wasn't about to insult you or something rude like that, there is a saying that says "It's better that people think you are stupid and shut up than open your mouth and prove it." I was only changing "accidentally" the meaning of the saying biggrin
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:24 pm
kingpinsqeezels Yeah, seriously. All I did was not read something. Sue me. Nobody is mad at you blaugh >.> At least I don't think so, lol. But I can sue you if you like 3nodding !
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:52 pm
nathan_ngl kingpinsqeezels Yeah, seriously. All I did was not read something. Sue me. Nobody is mad at you blaugh >.> At least I don't think so, lol. But I can sue you if you like 3nodding ! On what grounds sir?! Oh it's no biggy, I wasn't offended...much. whee
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:42 pm
darkphoenix1247 I'm just glad Judaism and science can mix! 3nodding Let me put this in light. Faith based vs. fact base mixing? I understand you believe in God. Just this is my problem with that statement. A religion that gets a idea and sticks to it or patches it it up to back up contradictions against them. as far as religion is concerned to mix with science it shall never get along for that will be the end of science. I'm sorry that I might have hurt you or angered you, or I might have bashed you. If you took that way I did not mean to, but please understand this; religion is based upon faith and what you believe is true, science is based upon facts supported by observation and if they do not hold up they are corrected or otherwise changed to fit the new evidence.
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:51 pm
darkphoenix1247 hmm....Just a note before this starts to get controversial, never say, "That's not true." Everybody has their own beliefs, and nobody knows for certain if it's true or not- that's why they're called beliefs. I personally doubt G-d suddenly put fossils in the world to make it seem as though it was old- I'm more of the evolution standpoint myself. While nobody can ever tell for sure if science is true, the same goes for religion. Thus, I go for what makes the most sense logically a lot. How is not science true if it can fix itself? A system that can fix or change is not a failed system? Were is the logic in that you said? Could it be that earth is a product of organic elements that combined with electro maganatic impulses in water, were proteins and other compounds held together, due to ionization? And self repulate and over time become more complex in function as the environment changed? Were most religions put it as bam, life. Life is not spontaneous generation as Holy Books think or wish to think it goes that way.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:05 am
kingpinsqeezels What about the idea that perhaps G-d's time is completely different from our own? Who says one day to Him is only 24 hours? ...It's a thought. Perhaps 7 days is really 7 billion years? It's a stretch, but we don't have any Atheists in here telling us we're all wrong, so might as well analyze every theory. Well you got one, should we start? Do you really think a God, choose this place as his special place? could it be that fact that were we are supports life to exist? we are on the outer rim of our galaxy. What does this mean? It means that the center mass is at the center at the center is a super massive black hole and a lot stars. What does that mean again? Well stars produce radiation and radiation plus DNA equals mutation and destruction. Also when our galaxy was created a lot leftovers went into space. Most asteroids are in the center, while there is few out here. This means less likely the chances of wiping out life. You speak seven million as a day for God or all seven days of creation?
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:35 pm
As I have recently thought of Evolution and creationism, I have come to the conclusion that humans are on Earth because of a combination of both of these things.
God (G-d?) created the basic lifeform and slowly perfected this lifeform over time. The 6 days is just a metaphor for this slow process of evolution. The 7th day of rest is symbolic of the point where God has left humans on their own and evolution is now happening naturally, without God's (G-d's?) influence. Since time does not affect God (G-d) why would the "7 Days" have to be 7 human days? Time is just a man made thing anyways.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:54 am
To Armchair: Why do you think religion can not embrace science? If you ever read the Torah, you'll see that it writes about what science has only recently told us; first life started in the oceans, then it came to the land, and after this man came to be. Man is even said to be made of the dust of the earth, clearly saying mankind is made from the same stuff as the earth, and we now know that all things are made of chemicals and atoms, the same stuff that's in man can be found in the earth (Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, etc).
If you read with your mind already made up, then yes religion will never mesh with science for you, but if you read with an open mind you'll be surprised by what you find.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:29 pm
[Raito] As I have recently thought of Evolution and creationism, I have come to the conclusion that humans are on Earth because of a combination of both of these things. God (G-d?) created the basic lifeform and slowly perfected this lifeform over time. The 6 days is just a metaphor for this slow process of evolution. The 7th day of rest is symbolic of the point where God has left humans on their own and evolution is now happening naturally, without God's (G-d's?) influence. Since time does not affect God (G-d) why would the "7 Days" have to be 7 human days? Time is just a man made thing anyways. Time is not man made, how time is measured is man made. It is universal in which events or events trespasses to the next in girded slots in which it is helix in a abstract view of course. What we measure this in is from sun dials to atomic clocks. If there was no time no change would occur as a result.
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