Welcome to Gaia! ::

Not to lecture you but let me give you the reasoning that I've learned to be true through the years. Bad things happen as a result of something bad happening at some point in life. I am not saying that all bad things are caused by the person themselves but sometimes outside situations. In general, suffering is a result of sin.

Sin is anything that separates us from the love of God. God has laid out an outline for how we should live our lives. He does it just as a parent lays out rules to keep their children safe. God isn't malicious in his rules but caring. Would you think it malicious if a parent prevented a teen from going to a party where they knew there was going to be alcohol and drugs consumed by minors? How malicious would you think they were if the people they were going with were in a car accident and died as a result of drunk driving?

How many famines do you know of happening without some kind of war or disaster having been caused by humans? What about our irresponsible use of pollutions, do you think that might have an effect on famines?

I agree that there are a lot of tragedies that happen. They seem senseless, but most of the time there is a rationale explanation. Car accidents do not generally happen entirely on accident. Someone had to be doing something that had taken their attention from the road. Maybe not something that could be considered bad but technically they were breaking laws put in place for there safety. Children dieing from diseases in Africa... Aids doesn't just spread itself. Actions cause aids to spread at some point. (I understand that babies can be born with it that is not what I am referring to.) Wars kill people and how many wars have you known to start without any people involved?

Why is there no help? That's a good question. Why aren't you trying to help? You could adopt a child from Africa through one of those feed the children campaigns instead of getting fast food or having more stuff than you need. How many kids could you feed for the money you spend on a Nintendo Wii? (Not directed at anyone personally. In general poor Americans are richer than wealthy people in a lot of countries.)

Maybe you haven't noticed but the majority of help that goes out around the world is from Christians. Habitat for Humanity, Feedthechildren.org, missionaries from every Christian faith... these are the people who are helping people. How many soup kitchens, homeless shelters, orphanages, or schools in foreign countries do you know of that aren't affiliated with either a church or Christian organization? God is answering the prayers of the people by sending his children out into the world to help them with the abundant resources we have been given. Ask the Nicaraguan children who brings them hope, who loves them when they feel unloved, who cares for them when they are lonely... they will point to the missionaries. I have friends who have gone on trips to these places and seen these things. How many of the relief workers after the hurricanes hit were from churches? I know of thousands upon thousands who were. My own church sent a group down to aid in disaster relief. There's a group of people from another church in my area who have been there since right after the storm hit who gave up their lives so they could help them rebuild theirs. Do you know many people who would do that? When you say there is no help when was the last time you were there to see if there wasn't any help?



Life can be cruel. I know from experience. Yet I am a firm believer in the love of Christ. I know from biblical texts that Christ died on the cross. I also have seen in other historical documentation from the era unrelated to biblical texts that he was crucified. I have read about his suffering. I've also found that through the suffering I myself have endured I have been able to bring comfort to some that are hurting. I can empathize with them much better than some who have led easy lives. I would go through all the pain in the world (emotional and physical) to have the gift that I have now.




I would love to hear more of your reasons. I hope you have a wonderful evening.

As Always,

The Melodious M

I only skimmed you lecture but look at it this way. Even though there is no point in tring to convince you.

World = Bad
God = Good (supposidly, but I think Satan is more of a saint than he is)
God controls world to some extent
God = Bad

I mean if go is so good why is he letting his people suffer. And don't give me so that we can assend into heaven crap. talk2hand

Or looking at it from a different angle, if he is so great how come the best he can do is make a flawed race. I'm more perfect than he is. I can bake a perfect cake. 3nodding

If you haven't lost faith in god than you haven't gone through any of the trials that makes someone lose faith. It isn't just on happening, it is a series of repeated disappointments. Almost to the point where you want to say "To hell with it" and jump off a bridge so that you can rot 6 feet under.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out the title of this topic is "What motivates you to be an atheist" So most of the people here are going to be some form of non-believers. So using your religion only hurts your point, it doesn't help it. Since no one here believes your religion, your "god has is people do his work for him" is irrelivant. God is a slave owner, he is bad, not good.

Which questions did you have that were unanswered?



There is a great bible verse that talks about how God talks to believers. It's in the old testament, which despite many arguments, still has relevance today.

1 Kings 19:11-13
11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"



Here's a little logical argumentation that is called Pascal's wager. Maybe you've heard of it. It goes like this: Being a Christian has no negative effect on society. (When Christians live as they should.) If I am a Christian I'm not going to hurt anyone in fact my main goal in life is to love people and show them the love of Christ. (I am not referring entirely to the mushie gushie feelings we may get when we see a puppy but the kind of love that is strong enough to tell someone when they are hurting themselves or others around them.) If I live my life believing in Christ and die I go to heaven. Pretty good thing I would think. If the Buddhists are right and I die, I come back as something else, since I've lived a good life most likely I'll come back as something good. If the atheists are right and I die nothing happens. However, if the Christians are right and I haven't believe in Christ then I go to hell.

Before anyone says, 'I don't believe in those things.' Last I checked, you don't have to believe in the sun for it to continue to rise and set, now do you? Just the same God doesn't need your belief to exist, He exists without you.



Confusion is a terrible reason to give up on something. You should really try to reason it out before just giving up on it. Your last paragraph is chalk full of things you can't see. Faith, hope, belief, doubt... I can't see those things, can you?

One final thing, please don't give up until you have proven that God doesn't exist for real. Instead of trying to prove he does look at it from the other side. When you debate something it's always important to learn about every angle of that subject. So instead of just saying God can't be proved, why not try to disprove him?

As Always,

The Melodious M

That comes from the bible or some form of a way to justify that your still going to heaven even if you believe in the wrong religion. Whatever. rolleyes
Point being, if where this comes from is wrong than it is wrong.
And anyway, that thing was only created so thatpeople wouldn't question anything. They wouldn't think of leaving their religion, they are already settled and so long as they live a rightous life they go to heaven. It's all minupulation.

And furthermore, no one knows that being a Christian doesn't have a negative effect on society. It could have a positive or negative effect, no one knows. It is just someone's opinion. I think all religion has a negative effect on society ESPECIALLY Christianity.

And again how is a god that damns people to hell just because they are curious and not brain dead good? rolleyes It is human nature to question things. Especially things that have absolutely no proof what so ever that were written by second hand sources that belong in an insane assylum.

And once more you can not disprove god. That is the way they made him. Just so that everyone wouldn't stop believing in him.
Maybe the large font will grab you attension.

Just one thing about pascal's wager. It has been around for a long time and Pascal is a very well respected Philosopher. He's not someone who belongs in an insane asylum but someone who offers an interesting way to look at things.

Do you believe history? I'm not talking school book history but history channel or other sources.

According to some religions he does allow free will, but others he doesn't. If you look as god being fictional, it is all just minupulation. Ha. Me fall in love. I don't care about that crap.

The whole "god puts us through trials so that we prove are faith in him" crap. And again "If god is so good why does he let his people suffer?"

And yeah. I can't make it through the first sentence of that made up crap in the bible, there is no way I'm reading it. Anyway, of what us is it to me. Using the bible justify anti-religion is like using a fork to eat. It's too easy and a waste of my time. Like I said before the bible contridicts itself and there are so many ways of interpreting it, it has lost all meaning.
And still no rational explaination for why he created a flawed face? Hmmm...Maybe these are those questions that Aakiyana never got answers too.

My point wasn't that the bible is history. That is only one theory of why the bible was written. (not my preferred belief) I was simply asking if you believed in history because it happened so long ago and was recorded by people who probably by your standards belonged in insane asylums.

I didn't ignore your points simply to tired to continue intelligent conversation. It's nearly two and I have a very big day ahead of me tomorrow. My son will probably wake in less than four hours which probably gives me about three hours of sleep.

Have a good night!

First of all, people who recorded history did not get their stories from ghosts or burning bushes rolleyes , they don't belong in insane assylums. Second of all, history has been proved. They can actually find battle armor of the Romans. What proof have they found of your Jesus and Noah's Ark. None what so ever.

My points were inteligent. Those are the question people should be asking themselves. Not "will god take care of me" Those are the important questions. Those are the questions that demand answers. Those are the questions that make me call religion for the drones.

The bible was written so that somebody could make money off of fooling people in to having faith in some mystical being.






So far every single on of your major arguements have been backed by religion, not by rational thinking. Let me remind you that religion is not rational. Maybe it is to you, but that is probably because you got your head so far up in the clouds kissing god's feet that you aren't thinking rational. And that wasn't meant as a insult, I know it sound that way, but I didn't know how else to put it.