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Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:53 pm
Well now I'm excited. I wonder if Gefilte fish is common, or at least sold around here.
Thanks for the ideas, and by the way, my friend is very uneasy about immersing new dishes in mikvahs, so is there anythng I can say that might make them less uneasy about it?
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:51 am
Mikvah immersion -- whether it's in a mikvah structure or out in a lake -- is like rebirth. It's required for new dishes, newborns, and women after their menstrual separation. Why? It is said that the waters of a mikvah flow directly from the river running out of the Garden of Eden. These waters are able to renew an individual's or an object's inherent purity, and turn a dish from just a vehicle for nutrition into a platter fit to serve a meal at the mikdash me'at (the little sanctuary -- the home table, which is the modern-day substitute for the Beit HaMikdash, the Holy Temple, itself).
Is your friend's unease a result of not wanting the dishes to be immersed, or of not wanting to be the one who holds them while they are immersed?
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:53 pm
Divash Mikvah immersion -- whether it's in a mikvah structure or out in a lake -- is like rebirth. It's required for new dishes, newborns, and women after their menstrual separation. Why? It is said that the waters of a mikvah flow directly from the river running out of the Garden of Eden. These waters are able to renew an individual's or an object's inherent purity, and turn a dish from just a vehicle for nutrition into a platter fit to serve a meal at the mikdash me'at (the little sanctuary -- the home table, which is the modern-day substitute for the Beit HaMikdash, the Holy Temple, itself). Is your friend's unease a result of not wanting the dishes to be immersed, or of not wanting to be the one who holds them while they are immersed? They think it's gross...Said person is Scientologist, and doesn't understand a lot of Jewish traditions for what they really are. It's not throwing dishes into to dirty water just as much as it's not taking a dip in a jacuzzi for anyone else. I just wish there was something I could say to make it sound better...You know?
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:06 pm
kingpinsqeezels Divash Mikvah immersion -- whether it's in a mikvah structure or out in a lake -- is like rebirth. It's required for new dishes, newborns, and women after their menstrual separation. Is your friend's unease a result of not wanting the dishes to be immersed, or of not wanting to be the one who holds them while they are immersed? They think it's gross...Said person is Scientologist, and doesn't understand a lot of Jewish traditions for what they really are. Well, there's good news and bad news. The good news is, Jewish tradition does not depend on the opinions of non-Jews. We keep the traditions, the traditions keep us; we don't bother other people about their religions or cults, and they (theoretically) shouldn't bother us. Unless this friend is sharing your apartment, her opinion about your dishes doesn't actually matter. You're free to say, "If you think my dishes are disgusting, I won't try to force you to eat from them." The bad news is that if she's sincerely grossed out by the very idea of eating off of dishes that have ever been immersed in a mikvah, you may not be able to share a meal with your friend in the future. At least, not once kashrut becomes important enough to you to keep it all the time (even when eating out). You may lose this friend because of her irrational distaste for the very clean practices of your people. That would stink, but it would be better to know it than not know it, so stick to your principles and maintain your integrity -- with compassion for her lack of understanding. If she's sharing your apartment, you may want to look for a new roommate who can respect your religion, your religious self-expression, and your spiritual needs. However, you may also want to explain that immersion in the mikvah is one step in the kashrut process. Following that immersion, there's also a WASHING, once you get the immersed dishes home from the mikvah. After all, mikvah waters often contain either chlorine or bromine as a chemical purifying agent, and you don't want to eat that stuff.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:32 pm
This may sound really stupid, so sorry in advance, but what's your friend's problem with it? Why would she even know they were immersed if you didn't tell her? I'm not saying to lie and say they weren't, but is her issue with the actual act of doing so or what it represents? If it's the latter, I'd say you need to find a friend who will better respect your religious beliefs, no offense. sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:10 pm
It's not really disrespect for the religion, as it is,"nasty natural water that other people have been in". I really think it's just a tiny complaint that will eventually be forgotten. After washing and things of that nature, there should be no problem, and if there is, well I guess SOMEONE is buying their own set of plates. xp We do plan on living together, and this friend is a male. (Sorry for not clarifying this. Since he's a boy, I didn't want anyone thinking I'm some sort of harlot for living with him. Not that I think anyone would, but I'm just weird that way.) He's like my brother...Unfortunately a lot of traditions and customs just confuse him, and I think once he understands that it's basically my way or the highway, he'll give in.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:56 am
kingpinsqeezels It's not really disrespect for the religion, as it is,"nasty natural water that other people have been in". I really think it's just a tiny complaint that will eventually be forgotten. After washing and things of that nature, there should be no problem, and if there is, well I guess SOMEONE is buying their own set of plates. xp We do plan on living together, and this friend is a male. (Sorry for not clarifying this. Since he's a boy, I didn't want anyone thinking I'm some sort of harlot for living with him. Not that I think anyone would, but I'm just weird that way.) He's like my brother...Unfortunately a lot of traditions and customs just confuse him, and I think once he understands that it's basically my way or the highway, he'll give in. OH. Then this is a very easy concern to address. If you're dunking the dishes at all, first of all, you wash them once you get them home. Secondly, does he expect that only he himself will eat from those dishes? He doesn't have a problem with other people's saliva on his silverware, right? So there's really no difference, because in each case, they'll be washed before he uses them. And finally, most importantly, you don't put your dishes into the same water that the humans immerse in. There are two separate dunking pools, one for women to immerse, and a separate one for dishes (called a keilim mikvah, or a vessel mikvah). They don't come into contact with one another at all.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:04 pm
Divash And finally, most importantly, you don't put your dishes into the same water that the humans immerse in. There are two separate dunking pools, one for women to immerse, and a separate one for dishes (called a keilim mikvah, or a vessel mikvah). They don't come into contact with one another at all. Oh he'll be so relieved. You do have a point though, about the saliva...It made me giggle. xp
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:59 pm
*grin* It's like when people tell me that kissing spreads germs, while talking through the stall door of a public bathroom. Or while touching money. Seriously, money is DIRTY. Incredibly germy, because everyone -- and I mean everyone -- touches money before, during, and after the most amazing and/or disgusting activities, yet people don't think twice about it. There's no consistency.
(Yes, I have severe cleanliness/OCD issues. Yes, I do wash my hands after touching money. Money's disgusting.)
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Silly question; do you have to immerse your dishes before each meal, or only once, or how many times?
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:56 pm
Just once, when you first buy them. Wooden dishes need not be immersed. One-time-use-only dishes need not be immersed, but if you're going to re-use a disposable dish, you should immerse it before the second use. There's more info at http://www.crcweb.org under their Kosher section.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:22 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:08 pm
Why not wooden dishes?
And you're right, I hate it when people don't realize that almost EVERYTHING spreads germs. And yeah, most of them are things we don't think about, but I was thinking about it while pushing the cart at Wal*Mart. I sneezed into my hand and then went on pushing my cart and I realized,"OMG how many other people have done that?!" and got really grossed out. whee
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:39 pm
kingpinsqeezels Why not wooden dishes? And you're right, I hate it when people don't realize that almost EVERYTHING spreads germs. And yeah, most of them are things we don't think about, but I was thinking about it while pushing the cart at Wal*Mart. I sneezed into my hand and then went on pushing my cart and I realized,"OMG how many other people have done that?!" and got really grossed out. whee That would be why I carry gloves with me wherever I go. Sure, some folk look at me weird, but they can get over it. We're supposed to keep our health, and I do my best to do so.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:46 pm
Anyone have a good recipe for latkes? I love those things.
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