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The term depraved is based on a doctrine (total depravity) that reflects what Scripture states about the sin nature of those who are unregenerated (non-believers).


Man was capable of doing good before the fall but after the fall; man was not capable of doing good. Paul said it himself in Roman 3:9-18, "All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Christians have the ability to do good, that I do not deny.



Ok... I'm not sure why you are mentioning this.



Now you are making a mess. Are you implying that both believer and non-believer has the ability to "choose" to be "evil" or "good"?

eek wellllll....i'm a christian, but most of my friends are pagan (or agnostic at least).
...i dunno...they're not "satan's people"...they don't believe in satan.
i also don't think its a good idea to go up to them and tell them they're damned to hell. trust me. that NEVER works. (why do some of the more radical christains really think they're gonna make a difference that way?)
i think the best way to witness to anyone, is by example. and when it comes time to talk about god, i say if you're discussing religion, bring it up. i don't think shoving it in their face or anything works. people like that make me ashamed of modern christians. i just say lead by example--live the way god lives and people will notice. one of my best friends came to god that way, because she said she saw the way her aunt and i both lived as christians. that's so much more effective than beating them with a bible. ^^

but is this doctrin based on the Bible, who teaches it and what VERSES in the Bible support this doctrine?



all of mankind is capable of good, think about it, watch the news past the bad stuff. non-christiansare doing better for the world than some Christians are. Oprah and Maddona are among the mor famous



if you read on you find out why.



yes that is what i am saying i am not implying it i am saying it. the parable of the good samaritan is perfect evidence that all humans can choose to be good or evil.

There's a difference between being good and doing good. No human being is completely good. That's a given. But that doesn't mean that they can't do good. Giving to charity, even if it's for a selfish reason, is still a good thing to do. You, who have money, are giving money to people who don't have money and need money. Doing good deeds doesn't automatically make a person good, since the reasons behind doing good deeds are often tainted, but the deeds themselves are still good.

Even according to your own quote, deeds determine character. If a tree produces good fruit, it must not be a bad tree.

Actually, if you want to get technical...yes. Ever had an experience with a blackberry bush? They can give you some nasty scratches, but blackberries are still delicious.

Potato plants have poisonous leaves, but potatoes themselves are not poisonous.


...hey, you're the one who brought up the plant metaphor. I'm just going with it.

That quote doesn't really support your point that people can do no good. It's saying that people are defined by their deeds. The part bolded even seems to point to people being able to be good. So...I'm not really sure why you brought up that quote.

The point I'm making is that people who are wicked produce nothing but wickedness. The wicked produce no good fruit. This whole discussion between me and promised_child (which everyone wants to jump in) is about everyone by their own will and sin nature cannot do good.

Roman 3:9-18, "All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

natural..
serious? well i never thought of it that way =/