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nathan_ngl
Crew

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:14 pm


kingpinsqeezels
nathan_ngl
kingpinsqeezels

I have a question about technology though: Shabbat Elevators. I just don't understand the things. We don't have them here, but when I was looking for hotels in Israel, I noticed "Shabbat elevators" a lot in Kosher hotels. What are they?


The whole problem with normal elevators is that you cannot press the buttons to tell the elevator which floor you want to stop on. So on shabbat, the elevators are set to 'automatic', meaning it automatically closes after 30 seconds or so, and stops at every floor - that way people who can't go up the stairs can still use the elevator - It only take a bit longer. It larger hotels, which usually have 2-3 elevators, one elevator goes on odd numbers, the other goes on even, and the third is manual (for anyone who doesn't keep shabbat) 3nodding
How is riding an elevator differen't from pushing buttons though?


Because by pushing the buttons you activate the system, causing something that wouldn't have happened - to happen. That is the problem behind the elevator - You actually 'did' something that caused something in the system.

But in the case of a Shabbat elevator, since the elevator would have gone up on its own, you didn't change anything - It was going to happen anyways!
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:22 pm


Dis Domnu
And now I find myself unable to continue the discussion intelligently. sad

I've never been able to read the Torah, nor any Jewish religious material. It wasn't safe to own such materials where I lived, although maybe now I can get my hands on some stuff.

Anywho: Why do you say the Torah won't ever change?


Because it actually says in the Torah that the laws within it will never change, and that if someone comes along and claims that G-d told him to change the laws, he is what's called a "false prophet" and must be killed.

G-d made a promise to never abandon the people of Israel, and G-d never goes back on his word... The same goes for what he said in the Torah - There never was a permanent change, not will he ever change anything in the future.

nathan_ngl
Crew


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:55 pm


and now the opinion of the new guy.

Judiasm is adapting to the 21st century and in a way is killing itself trying to become what it never was before.

From the facinating rules and regulations that we share, to the quaint and curious costumes that we're called upon to wear. It isn't easy being Jewish.

To some Judiasm is a religion, to some it's a culture. To me it's an ethnicity. It's also a challenge for me, I'm the only member of my family who still tries to follow the old ways. My father is to ill to keep the traditions alive, my mother was never taught them and my brother just doesn't care anymore.

I am the only one in my family who actually read the Talmud, all of the Talmud. To give you some idea of what that means to those who've never had the experience. I read 100 pages a day, and it took 7 months to finish it.

And from what I have experienced from my peers, I am the only one I know of who actually keeps kosher. Not glat kosher, but basic kosher, as it's impossibe for me to keep glat kosher as the nearest glat kosher anything is about 20 miles away from me.

But still I abstain from pork, shellfish and I don't have milk and meat on the same plate.

I keep Pesach and commit to the fasts when needed, and I also try to celebrate the holidays even if my family doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in Sukkot or Shavout or Tish`b Av. I still do.

However I fear that in the attempt to bring Jews together in unity and equality will tear this religion apart and make it more sectarian then it already is.

Should women wear kipas and talits?
Should men still use teffilin exclusivly?
Is it proper to eat from a resturant that serves treif?
Is it proper to wear a wool/cotton blended sport coat?
Should a Bar/Bat Mitzvah focus more on the actual ceremony and less on the reception?

I have my own belief system and I'm not going to tell anyone "They're doing it wrong." All I hope to accomplish in my time is to have someone else appreciate the self dicipline of the religion and the culture that it produced.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:04 am


LordNeuf
I read 100 pages a day, and it took 7 months to finish


You read 100 pages of talmud... A day?? eek

Do you actually study it or just plain read it? Because from where I come from, each page takes roughly 30 minuites to study, and that's just "light reading". Whole Yeshivot sit for WEEKS on merely 2 pages of Gemara!

Learning the whole talmud in 7 months is... Quite a feat sweatdrop ...

nathan_ngl
Crew


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:10 pm


nathan_ngl
LordNeuf
I read 100 pages a day, and it took 7 months to finish


You read 100 pages of talmud... A day?? eek

Do you actually study it or just plain read it? Because from where I come from, each page takes roughly 30 minuites to study, and that's just "light reading". Whole Yeshivot sit for WEEKS on merely 2 pages of Gemara!

Learning the whole talmud in 7 months is... Quite a feat sweatdrop ...


Well I didn't learn it, I forgot most of it already, but I did read it just to say I did.

It's part of that fine tradition from certain jewish sects that say the prayers as fast as they possibly can to get it out of the way and say that they've said them.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:15 pm


LordNeuf


Well I didn't learn it, I forgot most of it already, but I did read it just to say I did.

It's part of that fine tradition from certain jewish sects that say the prayers as fast as they possibly can to get it out of the way and say that they've said them.

err...What's the point of that? sweatdrop

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


LordNeuf
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:24 pm


darkphoenix1247

err...What's the point of that? sweatdrop


What reading the talmud or speeding through prayers?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:05 pm


LordNeuf
darkphoenix1247

err...What's the point of that? sweatdrop


What reading the talmud or speeding through prayers?

Both if you don't want or get anything from it besides the satisfaction of, "I did it." I really don't mean to offend you by saying this, but wouldn't it be better to get through a page and really understand it? sweatdrop

darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain


nathan_ngl
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:04 pm


darkphoenix1247
LordNeuf


Well I didn't learn it, I forgot most of it already, but I did read it just to say I did.

It's part of that fine tradition from certain jewish sects that say the prayers as fast as they possibly can to get it out of the way and say that they've said them.

err...What's the point of that? sweatdrop

Think of it as the following parable: A wagon carrying precious goods was traveling through a dark forest. The forest, being a dangerous place, happened to hold a band of bandits, and when they spied the wagon, they began chasing it - trying to steal the load. The faster the wagon went to reach it's destination, the harder it got for the bandits to capture the wagon.

Our mind is like a wagon traveling through a forest with bandits - Have you ever tried to concentrate on one thing, not letting your thoughts become obscured by other thoughts? It's nearly impossible! So, if one fears that irrelevant thoughts will corrupt his prayers (the bandits), he should hurry and reach his destination. Of course, this doesn't mean that one should hurry through his prayers to such an extent which he can't concentrate on the words, but it does mean that if you're not good at concentrating for long periods, don't try doing it when you're talking to the king of kings, lest you come to desecrate his honor.

Of course... All that applies for Prayers. When it comes to study, one should try to spend as much time as he can, studying the same part over and over again until it is as clear in his mind as water.
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