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and I agree with you there... some people would just rather follow... but all I was saying is that's really dangerous. I also agree about the community aspect of any religion... that's what I love about my church... we're a group of intelligent people that don't just read the bible and have someone tell us what it means and then go along with it... usually we read a verse or two and we discuss and debate on what it means to ueach of us. We still have the support of the whole group but we don't follow a cookie cutter reliogion.

I have, several times in fact, and I think it is a book everyone should read. I can only assume this is in response to my comments about "community religion" and such. It's good that your church holds discussions. That option should be open for those who want it. All I'm saying is that there are probably people who don't want to discuss it; there are certainly people who just want to accept the truth in their holy book, end of story. You can't force someone to be intellectual if they don't want to be.

I think the lesson in "1984" can be better applied to the dangers of a police state (which the United States may be creeping closer to with some of the most recent laws, but that's another topic) than religion, but yes, it probably is applicable. Having a large number of people who blindly follow a certain ideology is very dangerous. I don't argue against that. Perhaps I should restate my comments a bit: Open discussion should be encouraged, but you can't expect everyone to participate.

Well, as an agnostic I usually just observe several religions. To me the things that I find right about religions is what they usually have in common, and what I find wrong with them is what differentiates them. Our beliefs do not come from nowhere. There must be something out there that sparked the first belief that there is something greater than us somewhere. I do believe in the whole big bang and what not, but I also have a feeling that this higher power is infinitive and designed all that exists because this being is that intricate and intelligent. I also believe that humans are progressing towards that intelligence all the more and that we will continue to evolve. Although we are destructive so is nature and the cosmos; Earth gained its moon from another infant planet having crashed into ours head on... If there is a religion, not a cult, that believes this as well... I will most definitely want to learn more of what they have to say. domokun

Well I'm going to go off into a bit of a different route here.
Right about now I really don't feel like creating another thread.

So I'll start this conversation off as: In your own personal point of view what do you think the purpose of a god is?

I guess it's also to compare and contrast both good and bad aspects of a god.

I am only starting it off like this because I wish to have a more indepth conversation on this specific subject.

I never had any religion in my childhood and now in my mid-teens, my grandma is getting on my case for no good reason and my other grandparents have suddenly become religious.

You bring up a good point that a lot of religious beliefs comes from other people (because it's exactly why I haven't been converted...); I went to an *ahem* interesting church session this morning. The minister/pastor/brother/elder (he never gave his title) talked about MARRIAGE PROBLEMS. There was not a word about God in his sermon. Being an atheist, I have no problem about listening to a God sermon, but he went on and on about how WOMEN should "serve a glass of ice tea and their favorite meal" (when the husband gets home) "and tell him about how you know he's had a hard day" and listen to their husbands problems and understand that men are not like women.

What in the world?! What about women working a hard day?! What about MEN giving a go at listening to women and understanding them. He said people going to Heaven (devoted followers of God - church goers) should not marry those who do not believe in God or Jesus Christ because they were going "the other way." He admitted not all of this was found in the bible, but went on to say that it worked...

Then, he told an off-color joke about a woman with implants and laughed it off by apologizing to "Brother Joe" who's DEAD; he did not apologize to the listeners. I have never been so offended in my life especially not by a "Good, God-fearing, Devil-hating Christian man."

He claimed the Holy Spirit was guiding all he said...

P.S. If you haven't read it already, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has some interesting views on religion in general.

EDIT: I hope I don't offend anyone, but this man was preaching in Blythe, CA (not where I live, but we went there so my grandparents could see if they liked the church); I don't know if it is normal for that far south in California or what confused . People often jab at Southern Baptists... I just know up in Washington, the church I went to for a friend was not like that one at all.