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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:52 pm
roothands But I do remember reading that there is nothing in the Bible forbidding certain sexual relationships between married adults (like, for example, married women and other women). Yeah, you're right... There is nothing in the Torah forbidding sexual relationships between married adults who aren't married to each other.... Assuming that you're Shamroni, which you aren't sweatdrop . The Torah is a blue print of how to act. Just because the Torah does not comment on something specific, does not mean it is okay. G-d left plenty hints in the Torah for us to know what's okay and whats not, we can make decisions on our own. Someone that uses the Torah as a reference for prohibitions missed the whole point of the Torah. The Torah is a GUIDE on how to act... Besides, I don't think anyone needs someone yelling at them "DONT DO THIS AND THAT IT'S AGAINST THE TORAH". Seriously, if you know the Torah, you'd know the answer to this one too. No offense meant to anyone sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:01 pm
RaisaRose I don't know. My personal opinion is quite simple: It's not something I would want for me, but who am I to tell others how to live? If it's what works for someone else, I support them all the way. "Thou shall rebuke thy brother" - When you know the person is doing something wrong, and you know that person is willing to accept your rebuke and at least take it to heart, you must tell them that they are doing something wrong. This way you will prevent them from doing things which will only damage them in the long term. That is what a true friend would do. However, if you know it will do no good, then there's no point in telling them, as it will only cause more damage (This is the more common case). But to help someone damage themselves?... What kind of friend does that?? Most people don't realize they are hurting themselves, that's what friends are for. Just my two cents 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:42 pm
nathan_ngl RaisaRose I don't know. My personal opinion is quite simple: It's not something I would want for me, but who am I to tell others how to live? If it's what works for someone else, I support them all the way. "Thou shall rebuke thy brother" - When you know the person is doing something wrong, and you know that person is willing to accept your rebuke and at least take it to heart, you must tell them that they are doing something wrong. This way you will prevent them from doing things which will only damage them in the long term. That is what a true friend would do. However, if you know it will do no good, then there's no point in telling them, as it will only cause more damage (This is the more common case). But to help someone damage themselves?... What kind of friend does that?? Most people don't realize they are hurting themselves, that's what friends are for. Just my two cents 3nodding While I can agree that helping people avoid damaging themselves is good, I do have trouble seeing where polyamoury is damaging. Of course, as someone who is engaged in that sort of relationship, I wouldn't be the best to see the damage.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:41 pm
Well, since the official stance has been covered..
My stance isn't for polygamy, but I won't knock anyone for being in such a relationship either.. I think rooms, and doors are there for good reasons, and I don't like to butt into other peoples sexual lives.. It's a respect I like to uphold.
On that note.. Satisfying more than one partner I would imagine being a difficult task. Hell, satisfying even one is difficult (I'm happily single). I would imagine Yacov, the father of the 12 sons had a hard time handling his 4 wives! O.O
I wouldn't say that polygamous relationships add more stability though (then again I dont have experience in the type of relationship).. Maybe financially, but emotionally.. Hypothetically speaking, I think such relationships would foster jeleousy as one spouse may feel like a 3rd wheel in the relationship or feel like there is favorability towards another spouse.. As someone had posted earlier, its hard to love people equally.. It might lead to more instability in this aspect than it would stability..
Then again, I'm the type that believes that mental and emotional stability must come from within.. :/
And I've never had a good experience with a threesome.. :/
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:34 am
The Torah permits polygamy in certain cases. Minhag Ashkenazi (the Ashkenazi custom) has said that it will be outlawed for one thousand years, then the question will be revisited. (That thousand years ended a little while ago, by the way, and the question was never revisited on any large scale, or with any agreement among those considered able to make a decision.) Minhag Sephardi still says that polygamy is permitted, if and only if the individual Jew who wishes to live this way is in a land whose laws permit it to non-Jews.
Now, for personal talk. How many people do you love? You, personally, that is. For me, I love my mother. I love my RLSO. I love my cousins. I have no siblings, but I love my step-sister, and I suspect I would love biological siblings if I had them. If I had a child or children, I'm sure I would love them. All of these people, I can love. All in different ways, to be sure, but I love them all, and I would not want to give any of them up for anything.
I love my friends. I love them all equally, but in different ways, for different qualities in themselves, and I'm sure that each of them sees something in me to love. Furthermore, I'm sure my friend A sees things that are different from what my friend J sees, which are different from what my friend L sees... Maybe there's some overlap, but each of them sees something in me that's unique to their own perception of me, and that they love in me.
Extending it further, I love each of my cats just as much as the other, and for different qualities, and I know that each of them sees something different in me that makes them love me (or, depending on whether you think animals can love, maybe each of them feels safe with me for different reasons).
I love the various causes I support: Jewish causes, causes that support gays and lesbians, causes that support cancer victims, causes that support victims of natural disasters or poverty or wars. I love each cause, and by extension, I have a type of love for the people those causes are meant to help. I've never met them, but I can feel compassion for them, and compassion is a subset of love.
A human being is capable of loving so many, in so many ways, for so many different reasons. We are complex, amazing creatures. The ability to love so many, so well, for so many reasons, is one of the aspects of Hashem that went into making us "in God's image." Maybe some of us actually don't have the capacity to love more than one spouse equally... but if God can love each of us equally, as his children, shouldn't we expect of ourselves the ability to love each other equally, albeit in different ways?
Who says you can't love more than one child, equally but differently? Who says you can't love each of your three cats, your puppy, and your two parakeets, equally but differently? Who says you can't have more than one best friend?
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:05 pm
Well biblically there is lots of talk of "other wives" and concubines. Look at King Solomon.
So I consulted a book.
Jewish Book of Why, Book 2, page 113, last paragraph.
In 1950, a rabbinical confrence convened in Israel by its cheif rabbis renewed the ban instituted by Rabbenu Gershorm(960-102 cool known as the cherem d`Rabbemu and proclaimed that monogamy is binding upon all jews. Exceptions were allowed, by special application to the cheif Rabbinate, for immigrants who had come to Israel with several wives from Muslim countries. Marriages had been contracted before were not nullified but all future polygamy marriages were banned.
So yes, the Askenazi's banned polygamy it the early middle ages and it became standard in 1950...
Again, there's no biblical ban on polygamy, but the official stance is no.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:20 pm
Dis Domnu nathan_ngl RaisaRose I don't know. My personal opinion is quite simple: It's not something I would want for me, but who am I to tell others how to live? If it's what works for someone else, I support them all the way. "Thou shall rebuke thy brother" - When you know the person is doing something wrong, and you know that person is willing to accept your rebuke and at least take it to heart, you must tell them that they are doing something wrong. This way you will prevent them from doing things which will only damage them in the long term. That is what a true friend would do. However, if you know it will do no good, then there's no point in telling them, as it will only cause more damage (This is the more common case). But to help someone damage themselves?... What kind of friend does that?? Most people don't realize they are hurting themselves, that's what friends are for. Just my two cents 3nodding While I can agree that helping people avoid damaging themselves is good, I do have trouble seeing where polyamoury is damaging. Of course, as someone who is engaged in that sort of relationship, I wouldn't be the best to see the damage. I meant that generally, not specifically pointed at the subject at hand. Though I know it won't make much of a difference... Not much sense in saying anything then, huh? Having multiple wives is one thing, but having sex with someone else's spouse is quite another. I can't understand how someone could even suggest that the torah allows married people to have sexual relationships with people they are not married to. I'm sorry, but that is very not true. In fact, it is considered one of the most immoral acts one can do, and any child born from such relationships suffers the title: "Mamzer" (=b*****d). The definition of a Mamzer is a child born from this very type of relationship, emphasising how it is morally wrong to make a commitment to your spouse - only to break that commitment and have sex with someone else. And if someone's idea of a marital commitment is to have sex with whoever they please, whenever they please, then they have the wrong idea of what a marriage should be. I think I've said enouigh... But again, I don't expect this to make much of a difference in anyone's mind... sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:09 pm
If you ask me, and I know you didn't, but if you did, I can see how polygamy would work.
To reference my favorite author, Kurt Vonnegut, the reason most divorces happen, is lack of people to talk to. When you meet a woman and become intimate with her, she'll want to talk to you, about EVERYTHING. But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. And it's the same with men. Some women don't want to talk about who beat whom in college basketball, or the newest gadget for the tool box.
But when you marry several women, the woman talk to each other, and the man has a few new sets of brother in laws.
Just seems like it makes sense. The more, the merrier.
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:24 am
kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. Who said I wouldn't listen? ninja
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:28 pm
nathan_ngl kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. Who said I wouldn't listen? ninja It was a joke, but Nathan, if you want to talk about that sort of thing, you go for it! biggrin
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:48 pm
kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. I would rather talk about that than sports to be honest...
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:42 pm
Benzino the Great kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. I would rather talk about that than sports to be honest... It's what I'm hearing. I never understood the intrigue in sports anyhow.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:46 am
Benzino the Great kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. I would rather talk about that than sports to be honest... Yeah, sports doesn't seem to be a universal guy thing, but then again, it does xd .
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:19 am
nathan_ngl Benzino the Great kingpinsqeezels But for some reason, men don't care about who is marrying who and how scandalous the newest Cosmo magazine is. I would rather talk about that than sports to be honest... Yeah, sports doesn't seem to be a universal guy thing, but then again, it does xd . Depends on the sport, though. For example, I hate football and baseball- I think both are quite dull. Soccer on the other hand.... blaugh Mind you, always more fun to play a sport than watch it.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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