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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:29 am
Gyojiro He was the highest ranking angel, the dude had SIX wings, for gosh sakes. Quite a few heavenly beings have six (or even more) wings. An example would be the Cherubim and Seraphim.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:48 am
Spartan1989 Berezi so YOU can shut him down? I'm afraid there's something fallacious in your logic. We have no power to fight Satan on our own. I think he is refering to sin. And yes we can resist sin on our own. It is just alot easier with the help of God. untrue! It says right in the bible that no man alive (sept Jesus) Is able to resist temptation (or sin) alone.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:24 pm
Spartan1989 Berezi so YOU can shut him down? I'm afraid there's something fallacious in your logic. We have no power to fight Satan on our own. I think he is refering to sin. And yes we can resist sin on our own. It is just alot easier with the help of God. No, he's not referring to sin. Satan doesn't just put sin in front of us. Sin is a part of our nature. It is not something we can resist on our own. If anyone in the world could be justified via their own works, Christ would have died for no purpose. Go read Galatians for that. What he is referring to is temptation. And since when should we be seeking to see what Satan will bring in our lives next? We are servants of Christ and ought to seek His will for our lives. What Satan intends for us is utter ruin and separation from God. There may be good things to being tempted by Satan, but I will not be so foolish as to ask Satan to bring it on. Temptations come in God's timing, not ours and not Satan's. I will rely on God to refine me when God wants me to be refined. Then I will rejoice in that. But I will not seek it out. That's pre-empting God.
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:16 pm
Wow...
We can fight Satan,but not with out God...
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:56 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor x_Hikari_x But without Satan, we would be living in Paradise. We would be in perfect communion with our Father and Creator. We would feel no pain, no suffering. There would be no need to test faith, because we would live in it ever day. Our lives would be perfect in every sense of the word, and beyond our limited human comprehension.
Of course, that is all coming, with due time ^^ It's just, if Satan hadn't decided he wanted to be like God, it would have saved us a lot of trouble. QFT. Saying that G-d needs The Satan to be experianced is wrong on several levels. Firstly, there was a time when The Satan had not Fallen, and was still a powerful Archangel in G-d's service. Secondly, that's limiting G-d's glory. He doesn't need something to compare to to be experienced in his perfection.
I don't recall saying that God needs Satan...if it came across as that I'm sorry, cause that's not how it was intended. I was just saying that if Satan had not decided to be full of himself, there would be no need for any testing because we would be living with God. We would be living as Adam and Eve did, where God walked with them. But since the arrival of Satan as God's enemy, and the start of sin in the world, God had to distance Himself from us. He would not have had to do this if Satan was happy with where he was.
I still am not quite sure what was so offensive in my statement...but maybe that is due to my seemingly limited comprehension on the subject.
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:13 am
LRD_nick Wow... We can fight Satan,but not with out God... God works in mysterious ways, and your right, we cant fight satan without God at our side. I feel like God is with me everytime he tells me to fight i do. thats all i need is God on my side and i can do anything!
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:26 pm
x_Hikari_x Am I just incredibly stupid, or did I miss something? What's QFT? Haha, QFT means 'Quoted For Truth'.
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:36 pm
LRD_nick Wow... We can fight Satan,but not with out God... Then perhaps you ought to nuance this - Quote: So today think about it,and say, Satan whats next?
Show me,so I can shut you down and show my lord that I love him,and my faith is there here for him and only my lord and savior jesus christ!! AMEN! a bit more than you have because no where in your post did I get the impression that you understood that truth. Especially because of that bolded part. No where is God mentioned as being by your side to shut down Satan. You're the one doing everything so you can show God your devotion. That's not how fighting Satan works. Every bit of armor you get is from God, and then God is your strength. Our effort is present but minimal in relation to God's.
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:17 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor x_Hikari_x Am I just incredibly stupid, or did I miss something? What's QFT? Haha, QFT means 'Quoted For Truth'.
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:34 pm
Satan had some good in him. He had to. He was created by God, and everything that God created was good. He could not be fully evil, as then, there would be the issue if he would equate with God, who is fully good. But of course we know that the created cannot be more powerful than the Creator. Of course, that doesn't take away that Satan is the "father of all lies" and "a murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44).
For the second issue arising from this topic, I would agree with Berezi's statement. We cannot fight evil without God's help. It is by God's grace that we are able to resist the devil. It is God who gives us the small hints that we are wrong and he is right. God, by giving us graces, infures His love to us, enabling us to also love God for His own sake, and this supernatural love is the strongest weapon against the devil.
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:52 am
Satan, at one point in his life, was good. God created only perfection, in which case Satan himself was created perfect. But it is crucial to distinguish now that there is no good left in Satan. His hatred for God and His people is all consuming, and he will stop at nothing to see us all burn in Hell, quite literally.
But the question is then raised, how could a perfect creature (ie Satan) perform an action that is anything less than perfect (ie trying to overthrow God)? God also created something else. He created free will. It is this thing that makes us like Him. It is the ability to choose our actions. Choosing to do anything less or different than what God wants, is not choosing perfection. Satan was also created with free will, and with this will he decided he would choose something other than what God wanted. This is how a perfect creature can do anything that is less than perfection, also known as evil.
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:13 pm
I agree that a perfect creature can do something less than perfect. We were created perfectly, but our parents by commiting the first sin brought about death.
However, I disagree with your point that there is no good left in Satan. He had to have some good in Him. I believe this for the simple fact that there cannot be absolute evil because God is absolute good. Then, this absolute evil would be as powerful as God and nothing is more powerful than God. Then comes the fault that Satan maybe this absolute evil. However, Satan cannot be this absolute evil. The created cannot be equal with the Creator. If there was such an Absolute Evil, they would do evil for the sake of evil, as God does good for the sake of good. However, even Satan does not do evil for the sake of evil. He does evil for the sake of pleasure. He desires that men be put in hell and be tortured. Even pleasure itself cannot be evil, because happiness is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Only this hatred of God and pride of self is evil. And also, evil is defined by the lack of good, so whatever this Absolute Evil, be it Satan or anything else, is not Absolute as it depends on something else. Good has to be defined before evil.
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:57 pm
I think that if there was some good left in Satan, the Bible would be clear on it. Never is there even an implication that he is remotely good. It is clear that he kills, steals, lies, and does whatever it takes to get his way. The Bible talks about pleasure, and clearly defines the difference between worldly pleasures and those from God. Worldly pleasures are evil in nature.
Happiness, in itself, is not one of the fruits of the Spirit. I say this because I believe that there is a difference between happiness and Joy, which is listed. Happiness is a fleeting thing, only an emotion. Joy runs deeper than that. It is something God-induced, and it is not so feeble as happiness.
I believe that Satan is absolutely evil because I do not believe that evil is stronger than good. The Bible makes it clear that this is the case, by telling us to 'overcome evil with good'. It's not 'overcome evil with good, because, well, there's a little bit of good in evil too, so that makes our job easier'. 1 John refers to Satan as the 'evil one'. The Greek word for 'evil' is 'Poneros', which means 'labor, sorrow, pain. It is wicked, malicious, mischevious'. It says that 'Satan is the author of all the mischeif (poneros) in the world. Another word 'Sapros' is "simply what is corrup, rotten, putrid or rank. It speaks of something that is foul and fetid die to decay or degeneration. Morally it describes what is decadent, depraved, inherently spoiled'.
To me, this seems like absolute evil, and Satan is described as its author.
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:14 pm
Hmm...I think I should make it clearer what I believe about Satan first. Satan and all his demons desire no good whatsoever for man. They chose at a trial given to them by God and fallen and because they are spirits, they have no hope of redemption. From that point on is when they desired nothing but evil and they will choose evil forever. I wasn't saying at the start that Satan could somehow do a good deed. I don't think I can ever say that about him. I was saying that he himself cannot be absolute evil. Yes, it seems a bit contradictory. I'll explain further.
We all know God created Satan. I've already gone through explaining all that. Well, even if a creature does everything against God, there remains one good in him. It is that he is created by God and gives glory to God. How does he give glory to God when he does everything against God? It is that he exists and that his nature was given to him by God and it is only to God's will that he exists. His existence itself puts glory to God. That in spite of his wrongdoings he is living proof of God's infinite love. And not only that, he is proof of God's power in that even if he rejects God, he submits to His power and does as God commands for evil the Devil knows that he is not more powerful than God.
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Note: I am meaning that a creature of God cannot be absolutely evil. However, there are acts that are absolutely evil, only meaning that whatever the reason it is done for, it is always evil.
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:11 am
Berezi Spartan1989 Berezi so YOU can shut him down? I'm afraid there's something fallacious in your logic. We have no power to fight Satan on our own. I think he is refering to sin. And yes we can resist sin on our own. It is just alot easier with the help of God. No, he's not referring to sin. Satan doesn't just put sin in front of us. Sin is a part of our nature. It is not something we can resist on our own. If anyone in the world could be justified via their own works, Christ would have died for no purpose. Go read Galatians for that. What he is referring to is temptation. And since when should we be seeking to see what Satan will bring in our lives next? We are servants of Christ and ought to seek His will for our lives. What Satan intends for us is utter ruin and separation from God. There may be good things to being tempted by Satan, but I will not be so foolish as to ask Satan to bring it on. Temptations come in God's timing, not ours and not Satan's. I will rely on God to refine me when God wants me to be refined. Then I will rejoice in that. But I will not seek it out. That's pre-empting God. Well yes we can resist sin. I think you misunderstood me. You see something you like. You don"t have the money for it and you atre tempted to steal. You are unsaved . You can refuse to sin and not steal. Sooner or later we will fall to a sin but there are sins we can resist.
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