Welcome to Gaia! ::

Fa'e Questers' Guild

Back to Guilds

A guild for all Fa'e Questers! Post your quest threads, chat with other questers and Guardians, get critiques and more! 

 

Reply Completed Quests
[Mayan - Hunahpu] Look ma, no hands! (OMGWTFBBQ.) Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 4 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:05 pm


-I've replaced the interests section with a section detailing some of Astor's traits that come from his Autistic personality. Interests just seemed kind of ridiculous.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:15 pm


Okay, this is a critique working top to bottom. Like most of the critiques I do, I'm going to be touching on the character aspects more than technical aspects such as writing form, grammar, etc.,. unless it's utterly confusing. I'm not going to worry overly much on improper punctuation of anything like that; I'm not a proof reader. I can, however, point out character things that need to be worked on, logic flaws, etc.,. I don't try to be cruel but I'm not going to sugarcoat anything I say because, frankly, I've never found fluffy critique to be helpful myself and I don't know why anyone else would want one if they really want to improve their concept. Anyway, that said, on with the critique!

Introductory Comments:
I'm going to state that right up front I don't really understand why you would want to go for this particular concept. Vicare, as per wikipedia, is the Etruscan version of Icarus. It is NOT a different character. It's derived from the Greek mythological figure (source). Furthermore, there is nothing remotely magical about the character Icarus (or, in this case Vicare). Yes, the story revolves around wax wings that somehow worked, but they weren't even constructed by Icarus (Vicare). As far as I know Icarus (Vicare) was a human being who got a stroke of luck and stupidly took advantage of it. He was not magical.

As is, it really seems like you're kind of trying to make a loophole for a rule (No Greek myths) that was set in place because there were already heaps of mythologies drawn from that culture in use. I'm just confused why you'd pigeonhole yourself into such a questionable concept in the first place. You're a good writer, you develop fairly interesting characters, I just don't see this working because the mythbase is so flimsy and frankly when I look at it I think 'Huh, this person just wants this Greek myth so they reworked it sneakily so it would get approved.'

Now, about your sources. I understand that there's not a lot to work with in terms of the Etruscans. However, you shouldn't limit yourself to just working off the myth. Did you consider looking into the cultural aspects of the civilization? The religious beliefs? (Which, there's not much and honestly a LOT of it is combined with Greek and Roman stuff which kind of invalidates the quest further). Why not include that in your source material? Just doing some wikipediaing I found some interesting cultural stuff on the Etruscans.

Just because the myth itself has limited text doesn't mean you can't branch out. My Fa'e's mythbase (Cathleen Ni'Houlihan) had all of two mentions and maybe a paragraph of information. So what did I do? I dug into the culture surrounding the mythbase, dug into the HISTORY and worked from there. I'd highly encourage taking a look at all that if you want to give your quest something to actually stand on.

History:
Well written, fairly interesting. The 'in character' version doesn't have much feeling in it though. While we're viewing it from Vicare's point of view while he's FALLING TO HIS DEATH, it reads extremely dryly. There should be emotion there. The guy's careening to the sea where he will doubtlessly drown and die after being imprisoned for who knows how long. There should be frustration, fear, SOMETHING reflected in the narrative, even if it is Vicare thinking about past events for much of passage.

Also, I just want to repeat the fact that it seems shady when this is essentially the Greek version of the myth with a bunch of names changed. I'm aware you can't find the 'Etruscan version' but did you ever consider the possibility that there might not have BEEN an Etruscan version? The civilization itself was pretty much absorbed by the Greek culture, therefore it could very well be exactly the same thing - practically Greek. Again, just expressing my frustration with the mythbase in general and the possibility of it not technically sitting comfortably within the rules.

Anyway, back to the actual history. Generally speaking it's well written and informative and does all the things a history section should do. My only real suggestion other than the aforementioned would be to scrap the concept of 'In character' and 'out of character.' I'd go one or the other. Otherwise this section starts to feel boring and repetitive when you could just write it once and be done with it. I realize you want to give insight to Vicare's personality through the 'in character' section, but it just comes off as overkill.

Lastly, just repeating the fact that Vicare is a derivative of the Greek character Icarus. There's nothing to suggest one came before the other or that they were not, in fact, the exact same 'people.' I'm trying to think of an analogy for this and all that I'm coming up with is Santa Claus. The character may be called 'Santa Claus' in the United States and 'Father Christmas' in the United Kingdoms, but that doesn't mean its two different characters.

Future:
Why exactly is Astro a cruel nickname? It's not exactly 'buttface' or anything.

I'm curious why you'd describe Astor as having traits thought of as being 'autistic.' Do you intend to do anything with this autism? Have you done any research? Or were you just using it in place of an adjective? If he's not actually autistic, why mention it? Just because a person is socially awkward doesn't mean they necessarily have a medical problem. Furthermore, how is being single-minded and distant to people a reflection of his mythbase's hubris? This kind of sounds like taking two plus two and getting ten.

As for the mute thing, you are going to have to do some heavy duty interesting things between him and his guardian in the beginning stage. Any infant, I don't care if it's a reborn spirit or autistic, will recognize the fact that when they make a noise their respective parent will go CRAZY and start cooing back at them. Having Astor not speak because he doesn't perceive people will respond to him doesn't make a whole heap of sense. If you're attached to the mute idea, okay, but find a reason a little more meaningful for making him that way.

The part where you say 'he's easily distracted when not really focusing' doesn't make sense in the context of the fact that you said earlier he was extremely focused. I get the sentiment you're trying to convey, but try rewording it because right now it just reads as contradictory.

What is Astor's condition that improves as he ages? His personality? The fact that he's mute? Would that really be considered a 'condition' or just character flaws? Furthermore, what causes him to withdraw as a toddler if he's a normal infant? People don't just light switch like that. There has to be some sort of internal or external motivation for the change.

Generally speaking, I like the concept you've developed for his appearance. My only real issue is that wings of that design totally wouldn't be functional. A bird needs it's primaries to fly and if Astor's wings taper at the wrists like you describe them to, he wouldn't be able to use them. That said, this is a fantasy setting so I guess you could fanwank the possibility that they're magic wings and therefore work despite being physically impossible otherwise.

In terms of powers, one thing that really stands out to me is Astor's inability to fight while flying. I know his arms are a little occupied given the whole wings thing, but why couldn't he fight with his feet? Did you ever consider giving him sharp spurs like the kind roosters are fitted with while c**k fighting? That would be totally badass, haha. Personally, I think having wings on his arms is so much cooler than having them sprout from his back. It makes more sense, physically, and just is so much more interesting than having yet ANOTHER character with wings coming out of their back. There are definite physical limitations, but that's interesting! It forces you to be creative with how you play him and how he functions on a day to day basis (like what kind of clothes does he wear if he can't shove his wings through arm holes of a shirt? Could he still learn to do things like drive a car? Work certain jobs? Come on, that's interesting!)

I'm a little confused at to what exactly Astor's power of Belief actually does. I assume this derives from the fact that because he ‘believed!’ in the mythbase that he could fly on wax wings, he did, but how does this translate into the mind-over-matter stuff now? If anything, I'd think it WAS, to an extent, bending reality, but that might step on the Fa'e Sofi's toes a little given her cartoon logic powers. Describe this better, make it easier to understand.

That said, I do like the counter balance you've set up for the power. Kudos on that.

Nice details on the rest of it. They relate to what you've outlined previously well, so no complaints on the rest of this section.

Ideas:
Really, my problem with the whole Vicare versus Icarus thing still stands. You can say they're not the same person all day long and I'll still see Vicare as a derivative of Icarus. They're the same person. It's pretty much a Greek myth. You saying they're actually different people simply by going off 'because I say so' logic doesn't help to convince me. If you (or any archaeologist) could give me solid proof that the Etruscan version of the myth predated the Greek one, then I'd buy it. As is, it could have spawned at the same exact time or the Greek myth could have pre-dated the Etruscan one. There was a strong Etruscan culture in Greek/Rome, so they very well could have borrowed the Icarus myth along with other aspects of their religion.

Your justification for his past powers is interesting, but again I want to say that Vicare was a human with no abilities. In this instance, it makes far more sense that the power of belief would be imbued in the WAX WINGS THEMSELVES. Vicare did not believe HE could fly. He believed that the wings his father had crafted would ALLOW him to fly. There is a key difference there. It was not him saying 'Oh hey, I'm going to jump out this window and take off!' it was him saying 'Okay, these wings my father gave me will work to I can be free.' It's not belief in himself. It's belief in the wings. Vicare (or Icarus. Or whatever) was a normal human being in a fantastical setting. The only thing that allowed him to fly was a belief in the wings' ability to work, not his ability to MAKE them work.

Guardian:
Generally speaking, I don't usually have a whole lot to say on guardians. I will say though that Eshaa reads interesting but I want to know if her alien heritage has any affect on her life. As is, she reads like a normal average every day human. Did her alien race ancestors have any long standing cultural beliefs that might affect how she lives now? Otherwise, guardian bases covered. Blahblahblahfishcakes.

Overview:
While well written and extremely thought out, the biggest problem is that I'm just am not comfortable with is the mythbase itself. I know you're attached to the concept and I know you've put an extremely huge amount of thought and work into this but in all frankness? It has a weak base. You can't build a mansion on a foundation of sand and expect it to hold together. If you want true and utter honesty, I'm going to recommend you look into a different mythbase. I know that probably sounds cruel and unusual, but there are just SO MANY awesome myths out there that don't have a) a questionable main character that may or may not be magical, and b) possibly taking advantage of a loophole in the rules.

Pukio


Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:06 pm


Okay, fair enough. Thanks for talking some sense into me (Like everyone else has been trying to do.) I think I'll be finding a new myth, then, since once four people agree I'm a little messed up. I think I'll find a way to adapt Astor, then.

Thank you for looking over it. smile You've given me some good points to build on.
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:56 am


Okay, the transition of this quest into one for Hunahpu is basically done. I'd love to hear critiques now.

Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100

TLB

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:40 pm


I’m going to be a little nit-picky with you, but only because I care about Astor’s development and upping your chances of getting him. ^^

Story: I really want you to finish this. You’ve intrigued me with your first few paragraphs and I want to see where you’re taking it. The very, very beginning is a little unclear to me, but only because I don’t know much about the culture.

Hunahpu’s Death: First of all, the intro doesn’t exactly correspond with the text. You say that Xbalanque decided not to put his brother back together, but in your intro, you state that he forgot. This may have just been a mistake, but it would be a lot less confusing if you changed it.

I’m also curious about Astor’s “reaction” to his death. Did he go to the underworld like all dead souls? If he did, how did he react to his brother being there? Did he wander around the Earth being weighed down by the hurt of his brother’s betrayal? How did he feel about this? Did he want revenge? Not the prankster kind, but the real kind. I want to know what happened to his soul (and maybe even a little information on the reactions of others around him).

Also, FA’E is about bringing beings, great and terrible, to life for a second chance. Why does Astor want this second chance? How does he act towards Airi when he first meets her? I would love to see a paragraph or two written about why he wants to live again. It can be for any reason, selfish or for the greater good, but supporting it is mandatory.

Personality: Astor seems like a guy who lives for laughter, even maniacal laughs too. My only concern is if he has any other deeper feelings that help build this up. I mean, this trait is like the turkey in a Thanksgiving feast, everyone focuses on it, but it’s not the feast entirely. In order to make it an actual feast, you need some salad, some potatoes, some bread, you get the idea. You can’t have a gourmet Thanksgiving banquet, or any banquet for that matter, with just one stand-out meal and Astor seems to be a Thanksgiving dinner with one turkey and a few side dishes. The turkey being his comic behavior and the few side dishes being his naivety (which appears in several different forms). I want to see longer paragraphs in some other traits you mentioned, such as his sore loser-ness and need to rush into things. I also want to read more about his knack for puzzles and riddles. Does this intertwine with his myth at all? Also, why does he like being adventurous if he knows the outcome to some of his decisions and why does he love pranks so much? Little questions like these are the hardest ones to answer, but the answers help truly make the character by supporting their little quirks and actions.

Appearance: I rather like Astor’s appearance. I think it’s quirky and simple. In fact, I want to chibify him (and probably will). I just need to know what textured hair is.

Powers: I believe most of Astor’s powers are appropriate, seeing as they are part of his myth, but I am slightly afraid that the transmutation will result in god-moding. It really depends on whether he controls the animal or not. For example, I would say that tearing out a dreadlock and turning it into a cobra would be as far as the transmutation itself could go, but allowing Astor control over such a dangerous animal may be taking it too far. Compromising may be best here.

Strengths and weaknesses: I really don’t have anything to comment on here. It seems fine to me.

Overall, you did a pretty good job. Just make a few more improvements and you should have A++ FA’E Material. ^^

PS: If you don’t get the analogy about the Thanksgiving dinner, it’s okay. It was the only metaphor I could think of at the time.
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:31 pm


Hunahpu is done!:

User Image


And he's happy to see you! ^^

TLB


Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:52 pm


Eeeeee, cute!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:05 pm


Thank you! Glad ya like it. ^^

TLB


Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:30 pm


Changes:

-finished the history section

-updated the death section

-added a minor and seldom-used power
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:38 pm


I think the resurrection power will have to go, as fa'e can die and I don't think it likely that a non-Ancient fa'e would be able to survive a physical death like an actual God could.

Otherwise, should be okay for stamping once that's gone.

kalindara
Vice Captain


Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 am


kalindara
I think the resurrection power will have to go, as fa'e can die and I don't think it likely that a non-Ancient fa'e would be able to survive a physical death like an actual God could.

Otherwise, should be okay for stamping once that's gone.


Am I allowed to contest that or is it better if I come quietly and do as I'm told?

Er, I'll come quietly. I want the stamp more than I want the power.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:57 pm


You can ask Sosi or Anya for a ruling, if you'd like? I don't know that they'd go for it, since the point of fa'e is that they're mortal, trying to become immortal again...

I'm not the final authority, I know ^^ Let's wait for Sosi to return and check...

kalindara
Vice Captain


Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:53 pm


It's sort of got to do with the myth. Hunahpu is one half of the "Hero Twins" and one of their things is in order for their quest to be complete they have to die. I don't plan to use it as an ordinary power, just sort of a one-time thing.

The intention was that during one of his later growth plots in Xibalba, he willingly allows Xibalanque to kill him, and Xibalanque revives him, since he's the only one who knows the method, in hopes that he'll be on his side.

It's a totally passive power, but it's not Xibalanque's power that does it - it's a property of his existence.

And I know Cere somehow got approved for Lethe to reincarnate to her river if she gets killed. I've already checked with her to make sure this isn't too close.

The point is, he has to die for the power to work, and it's not like he does it on purpose. Someone else has to know how it works and do it for him, but it works on him because of a property of his existence.

I guess I've only muddled things further, though. Did that make sense?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:11 pm


Hokay, so,

I talked to Sosi and this quest is basically approved since the power was okay with her. I'm just missing a stamp.

Wheee!

Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100

Silverah

Handsome Shoujo

11,200 Points
  • Magical Girl 50
  • Team Jacob 100
  • Tooth Fairy 100
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:01 pm


FROM, LIKE, FOREVER AGO. D:
Sosiqui
Silverah
Sosi-

A while back, Kalindara went through and did a round of approval stamps on Fa'e quests. She told me that there was one power I would need to talk to you about but other than that I was all set for approval, but said I wouldn't be approved until I either removed the power or talked to you or Anya about it. I moved the power from my main concept post to a plot post and replied that I had no huge problems removing the power, but would like to keep it since it had a lot to do with some of the plot I had in mind. She suggested I talk to you, but I've held off since I felt like I'd been bugging you too much at the time (it was right around the first round of problems with AJ.)

My Fa'e quest (since I finally found a mythbase that I like, could come up with a concept for, and that doesn't have any glaring logic errors or blatantly break any rules) is for Hunahpu, a figure from the Mayan Hero Twins myth. The power in question is as follows:

Quote:
Dem Dead, Dry Bones: If Astor is really, totally, absolutely dead, it's possible to revive him by burning his body, grinding his bones to fine powder, and dumping the ashes and powder into a river. However, this is a very, very tedious process and must be done exactly to work. This is meant ONLY as a last-ditch effort to save his life, and only in cases of death not by natural causes such as age, sickness, fading, etc. . Most likely, it will only feature in quests and personal plot, but I figure I should mention it. In all likelihood, it will only be used once or twice in his whole life.
(Justification: Hunahpu and Xibalanque are able to reincarnate from their ashes dumped in a river. Also, in the original myth, they have to die in order to complete their quest. It's entirely possible that this holds true for Astor vrs Xibalanque.)
(Only used once or twice, I'd hope, and only during questing. This differs from the rest of his powers in that it's something Astor doesn't actively use - someone else has to know it exists and put it into action for it to work, so really, it's more of a property of his metaphysical existence than a power. The reincarnation is by no means instant, and Astor is not even aware of this power until it is used on him.)


Kali had qualms with it since it was what she called a "resurrection power", but I drew it directly from the mythology and there are existing Fa'e with "resurrection powers". I saw no direct rules outlawing such a power, it isn't spontaneous rebirth so it doesn't overlap Kia, and I talked to Cerena in case it was a bit too much like something she had planned for Lethe.

Cerena
If you think it doesn't sound too much like yours, then you can use it (it sounds like you have a much better justification for the power anyway) -- if you need more details, feel free to ask, and we can work around each other to make sure the powers don't clash. (Again, if I even decide to use it... XD)


I never intend to use the power outside of a personal plot setting, so it doesn't give him any advantage in day-to-day RP, and I don't plan to use it as an OMG I CAN'T BE KILLED sort of thing. There are specific conditions around the power that will only allow it to work if they are met ("IF he dies of unnatural causes and IF he is cremated and IF his bones are ground to powder and IF his ashes and his bones are dumped into a river and IF that river is in Xibalba") and the power is entirely passive (does this mean it's not even a power at all?), so I guess I am arguing its disqualification on the grounds that it is a "resurection" power since I feel Kali's interpretation of it is an inaccurate interpretation of my description.

Kalindara
I think the resurrection power will have to go, as fa'e can die and I don't think it likely that a non-Ancient fa'e would be able to survive a physical death like an actual God could.

Otherwise, should be okay for stamping once that's gone.


Anyway, I'm hoping for at best approval of my quest with the power intact, but will settle for approval with a workaround or approval without the power. (Quest thread = here, but I don't advise reading the whole thing because it is absurdly and excessively wordy and long-winded and I felt the need to justify every single creative decision I made.)

Thanks for your time. smile

-Silverah



Hmm~ I think you've put enough restrictions on it to not really be able to godmode. specially because if you used it in active RP, it's entirely possible someone else would ******** it up just on accident, if it's too exact, so... I think it'd be okay. ^^ It's obvious you've thought about it a lot.
Reply
Completed Quests

Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 4 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum