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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:55 pm
a**l Jesus Aila-al-Jehan a**l Jesus *sits back and munches popcorn* Poisoned the popcorn. blaugh
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:27 pm
iolitefire Dras, Thank you. I honestly agree with your ideas. Sometimes people can't handle things going their way and instead of trying to be reasonable, they turn to magic. Instead of trying to compromise, they use curses or something. Dumb. Magic can be helpful, but it shouldn't be messed with. Magic should be used as a last resort. Sometimes that one person who raped a friend can't be punished legally or physically. Then you can turn to magic. That's reasonable. Its naive and irresponsible to use it simply because someone is doing something you don't want them to do. Magic should not be an excuse to avoid life and its complexities. ...I swear your post wasn't there last night. I didn't mean to ignore you, sorry about that. But yeah, I mean, in many circumstances, people don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. Do you think a bully really sees things from the other person's perspective, and feels guilty about it afterwards? No, probably not. People don't change, and putting some sort of curse on them will just confuse them. Or, if they somehow know it was you, make them hate you even more. I just think it's a bad idea to use magick for punishment in general. You don't get to decide who gets punished.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:32 pm
Mitsh DrasBrisingr Mitsh I'd say, unless people actually ask for what's morally the right thing to do, mention it, but don't try to enforce it by withholding information about it. Yes, you /are/ helping folk by showing them the moral high ground, but who cares about the friggin' moral high ground? Let people make their mistakes - who knows, what they do might actually bring some good into the world; What they do might actually work out for the best. Magick's for experimenting with, for ******** with; if we didn't push boundaries and do utterly stupid things, we'd get nowhere. Besides, Aila might accidentally seduce a goat with her little dohickey, and let's face it, that'd be bloody hysterical. XDEh, I'm not really trying to show anyone a "moral high ground". I'm simply expressing my dislike of a certain occurence in the guild, and defending the point. And your logic can be pushed both ways. If we give a loaded gun to a six-year-old, and tell them to have fun, what exactly do you think they're going to do with it? They might shoot someone, but they might not? If we don't tell them that it is capable of seriously injuring someone, do the chances increase? If they don't understand the concept of death? Are any lives lost all "for the best?" Do you have to kill someone to know that death is wrong? Do you have to have a spell backfire before you realize that they can and do backfire? I'm getting way too damn preacher-ish about this. I think lack of sleep makes me much more loquacious, but much less coherent. Touché, chief. XD I think the difference between your example and the present situation is that the folk using the spell should be told (even in passing) how moral the thing they're doing is, the backlash they could face and so on, that way they can look at it responsibly, which a six year old probably could not. If the person looking for advice seems as though they could take responsibility for what they're doing, then it's koo - they should be given a warning beforehand of possible consequences. If they seem irresponsible... well, that's really the individual's call. I'd probably still give them the warning and let them shoot themselves in the foot, I think. I don't know. I mean, I agree with you, but I also think that if they're even going to get into magick at all, they should be aware of the consequences. If they go find some random spell on some random website, none of us are going to be standing over their shoulder saying, "now, now, be careful with that one. It might backfire and kill you." If they're not responsible enough, or haven't read up about magick enough, then they shouldn't even be messing with it at all.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:44 pm
Aila-al-Jehan If my dad was making my life a living hell, yes, Id do whatever I can to make his one back. Physically, metaphysically, verbally, emotionally, whatever. In my mind, no father should do that to you. No one deserves it. Malice deserves nothing but malice. And In my mind, physical or metaphysical, its an action. No difference. Magick is a tool that should be practiced with, used when needed, and handled with care. But its also about as all purpose as a non-physical tool on a physical realm can be. But again, thats just me. If you don't agree, thats all you. If I used your logic, my father would be dead right now. He's taken away my life, so I should take his? Do you think that's right? Do you think I'm allowed to take my father away from his family and my mother, just because I'm miserable? My family's been through enough with the death of my cousin, then my grandfather shortly after. I don't know if they can take another hit. I'll be out of here in about 4 months, so I couldn't take him away and leave my mother alone when I leave. What he does may be wrong, but there is no punishment. He's ADD and depressed. His father was abusive. His second child was born prematurely and died weeks after birth. He's had two heart attacks in 5 years. He has a lot of psychological damage, and his physical condition isn't much better. It's not like he isn't suffering. And if there's no difference between taking a metaphysical and physical action, then the practice of magick can be compared to the practice of sword fighting. Both are an art, and both can be dangerous. But do you take a sword to anyone who pisses you off? But I'll leave the point. We're just going in circles, and not really getting anywhere. Except talking abouy my personal life, which isn't exactly something I enjoy.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:04 pm
See, what I got out of your rant was more or less the idea that a magic wand (so to speak) does not fix your problems unless you already know how to fix your problems. In which case, it's better all 'round to do it yourself rather than wait on your arse for some external force (like magic) to fix it for you.
In my opinion, too damn many people these days spend all sorts of time and energy digging themselves into holes, then swear it's not their fault and they can't fix it themselves. That's where the personal perception of need becomes completely unrealistic, and it also gets nasty. Because you so desperately don't want any responsibility for your problem that you'll blame anyone and anything, and spend more energy being the victim and demanding rescue. Meanwhile, of course, the problem doesn't get solved because you're still working against what/whoever is supposed to fix things for you. I've seen so many friends waste *years* buying love potions, casting love spells, buying goddamn "love prayer" candles and whatever else they could do in the privacy of their apartments...and then whine that the perfect man didn't drop out of the sky and knock on their door. They usually found a man by going to concerts, going to the gym, realizing the hawtness of a friend, or otherwise getting over the "do it by magic" mentality.
Perhaps it should be said that perspective is a key ingredient in any spell.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:58 pm
DrasBrisingr Aila-al-Jehan If my dad was making my life a living hell, yes, Id do whatever I can to make his one back. Physically, metaphysically, verbally, emotionally, whatever. In my mind, no father should do that to you. No one deserves it. Malice deserves nothing but malice. And In my mind, physical or metaphysical, its an action. No difference. Magick is a tool that should be practiced with, used when needed, and handled with care. But its also about as all purpose as a non-physical tool on a physical realm can be. But again, thats just me. If you don't agree, thats all you. If I used your logic, my father would be dead right now. He's taken away my life, so I should take his? Do you think that's right? Do you think I'm allowed to take my father away from his family and my mother, just because I'm miserable? My family's been through enough with the death of my cousin, then my grandfather shortly after. I don't know if they can take another hit. I'll be out of here in about 4 months, so I couldn't take him away and leave my mother alone when I leave. What he does may be wrong, but there is no punishment. He's ADD and depressed. His father was abusive. His second child was born prematurely and died weeks after birth. He's had two heart attacks in 5 years. He has a lot of psychological damage, and his physical condition isn't much better. It's not like he isn't suffering. And if there's no difference between taking a metaphysical and physical action, then the practice of magick can be compared to the practice of sword fighting. Both are an art, and both can be dangerous. But do you take a sword to anyone who pisses you off? But I'll leave the point. We're just going in circles, and not really getting anywhere. Except talking abouy my personal life, which isn't exactly something I enjoy.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm
Yvaine See, what I got out of your rant was more or less the idea that a magic wand (so to speak) does not fix your problems unless you already know how to fix your problems. In which case, it's better all 'round to do it yourself rather than wait on your arse for some external force (like magic) to fix it for you. In my opinion, too damn many people these days spend all sorts of time and energy digging themselves into holes, then swear it's not their fault and they can't fix it themselves. That's where the personal perception of need becomes completely unrealistic, and it also gets nasty. Because you so desperately don't want any responsibility for your problem that you'll blame anyone and anything, and spend more energy being the victim and demanding rescue. Meanwhile, of course, the problem doesn't get solved because you're still working against what/whoever is supposed to fix things for you. I've seen so many friends waste *years* buying love potions, casting love spells, buying goddamn "love prayer" candles and whatever else they could do in the privacy of their apartments...and then whine that the perfect man didn't drop out of the sky and knock on their door. They usually found a man by going to concerts, going to the gym, realizing the hawtness of a friend, or otherwise getting over the "do it by magic" mentality. Perhaps it should be said that perspective is a key ingredient in any spell.
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:00 pm
Yvaine See, what I got out of your rant was more or less the idea that a magic wand (so to speak) does not fix your problems unless you already know how to fix your problems. In which case, it's better all 'round to do it yourself rather than wait on your arse for some external force (like magic) to fix it for you. In my opinion, too damn many people these days spend all sorts of time and energy digging themselves into holes, then swear it's not their fault and they can't fix it themselves. That's where the personal perception of need becomes completely unrealistic, and it also gets nasty. Because you so desperately don't want any responsibility for your problem that you'll blame anyone and anything, and spend more energy being the victim and demanding rescue. Meanwhile, of course, the problem doesn't get solved because you're still working against what/whoever is supposed to fix things for you. I've seen so many friends waste *years* buying love potions, casting love spells, buying goddamn "love prayer" candles and whatever else they could do in the privacy of their apartments...and then whine that the perfect man didn't drop out of the sky and knock on their door. They usually found a man by going to concerts, going to the gym, realizing the hawtness of a friend, or otherwise getting over the "do it by magic" mentality. Perhaps it should be said that perspective is a key ingredient in any spell. Well, I could make the point that using magick to fix stuff takes away personal responsibility and coping skills, but that's not what the thread is about, really. It's about caution and not expecting to get an easy answer to a problem. From your post, I started thinking you disagreed with my point, but the more I read, the more I'm confused about your point. You start out gathering a suspected point from what I was saying, and hinted that it was a bit more than slightly ridiculous; then stated your opinion, which seems to be no different from my assumed point. Finally, you stated a conclusion that didn't really have anything to do with your point, or any part of your post whatsoever. I am deeply confused at this point. Restate, please?
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:12 pm
DrasBrisingr Yvaine See, what I got out of your rant was more or less the idea that a magic wand (so to speak) does not fix your problems unless you already know how to fix your problems. In which case, it's better all 'round to do it yourself rather than wait on your arse for some external force (like magic) to fix it for you. In my opinion, too damn many people these days spend all sorts of time and energy digging themselves into holes, then swear it's not their fault and they can't fix it themselves. That's where the personal perception of need becomes completely unrealistic, and it also gets nasty. Because you so desperately don't want any responsibility for your problem that you'll blame anyone and anything, and spend more energy being the victim and demanding rescue. Meanwhile, of course, the problem doesn't get solved because you're still working against what/whoever is supposed to fix things for you. I've seen so many friends waste *years* buying love potions, casting love spells, buying goddamn "love prayer" candles and whatever else they could do in the privacy of their apartments...and then whine that the perfect man didn't drop out of the sky and knock on their door. They usually found a man by going to concerts, going to the gym, realizing the hawtness of a friend, or otherwise getting over the "do it by magic" mentality. Perhaps it should be said that perspective is a key ingredient in any spell. Well, I could make the point that using magick to fix stuff takes away personal responsibility and coping skills, but that's not what the thread is about, really. It's about caution and not expecting to get an easy answer to a problem. From your post, I started thinking you disagreed with my point, but the more I read, the more I'm confused about your point. You start out gathering a suspected point from what I was saying, and hinted that it was a bit more than slightly ridiculous; then stated your opinion, which seems to be no different from my assumed point. Finally, you stated a conclusion that didn't really have anything to do with your point, or any part of your post whatsoever. I am deeply confused at this point. Restate, please?
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:12 pm
Aila-al-Jehan DrasBrisingr Yvaine See, what I got out of your rant was more or less the idea that a magic wand (so to speak) does not fix your problems unless you already know how to fix your problems. In which case, it's better all 'round to do it yourself rather than wait on your arse for some external force (like magic) to fix it for you. In my opinion, too damn many people these days spend all sorts of time and energy digging themselves into holes, then swear it's not their fault and they can't fix it themselves. That's where the personal perception of need becomes completely unrealistic, and it also gets nasty. Because you so desperately don't want any responsibility for your problem that you'll blame anyone and anything, and spend more energy being the victim and demanding rescue. Meanwhile, of course, the problem doesn't get solved because you're still working against what/whoever is supposed to fix things for you. I've seen so many friends waste *years* buying love potions, casting love spells, buying goddamn "love prayer" candles and whatever else they could do in the privacy of their apartments...and then whine that the perfect man didn't drop out of the sky and knock on their door. They usually found a man by going to concerts, going to the gym, realizing the hawtness of a friend, or otherwise getting over the "do it by magic" mentality. Perhaps it should be said that perspective is a key ingredient in any spell. Well, I could make the point that using magick to fix stuff takes away personal responsibility and coping skills, but that's not what the thread is about, really. It's about caution and not expecting to get an easy answer to a problem. From your post, I started thinking you disagreed with my point, but the more I read, the more I'm confused about your point. You start out gathering a suspected point from what I was saying, and hinted that it was a bit more than slightly ridiculous; then stated your opinion, which seems to be no different from my assumed point. Finally, you stated a conclusion that didn't really have anything to do with your point, or any part of your post whatsoever. I am deeply confused at this point. Restate, please? But see, it sounded like she was making a counterpoint. If I made it sound like I would disagree with that, then I need to rewite my OP. I do agree with her.
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:17 pm
Meh. To be honest, I got a bit confused myself. Sort of a combo of irritation that people use magic as a dodge, plus a note that often people use spells without any clear idea of what they're doing, and what the effects are. Sorry to be a confusing eejit. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:28 pm
Yvaine Meh. To be honest, I got a bit confused myself. Sort of a combo of irritation that people use magic as a dodge, plus a note that often people use spells without any clear idea of what they're doing, and what the effects are. Sorry to be a confusing eejit. sweatdrop No, I understand. I'm pretty sure my first post was all redundant and difficult to follow. I just don't really want to go back and read it. But yeah, I agree. It is irritating.
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:59 pm
DrasBrisingr Aila-al-Jehan DrasBrisingr Aila-al-Jehan Ok, ok, calm down, miss dras. I get what youre saying, don't use magick for everything. Life is full of ups and downs, and there's no reason to always try to fix your life with magick. I agree and disagree.
I agree because people should have the maturity to know that magick isn't a cureall. They should know that there are things that should just be played out, and things that they should just let slide. This is true. Plus, its not like magick is an instifix. Magick takes a good amount of time to manifest if cast correctly.
However, I think there are things that magick is perfectly fine for. Like trying to get some extra cash in your pocket for the future. For ensuring that you get to school on time and the like and that you achieve your goal grade for the science faire by enhancing its appeal. Theres nothing wrong, at least I thikn, in giving the attempt to make your life a lil better. You have the technology. You can make yourself stronger, faster, etc. But know what your doing at least, an be prepared for comeback.
Magick isn't always a GPS, but it is always a steering wheel. It'll get you where you need to go if you know how to get there. But again, I do advocate using magick to fix problems when you feel its necessary; or even when its one thing out of several that you just can't ******** deal with and you just want to make a difference in so you don't feel quite so hapless and hopeless.
...So yea. neutral I do understand that there are times when using magick is acceptable. If I didn't, I'd be saying, "don't use magick at all. Ever." But there is something I don't agree with, at least not entirely. You stated, "But again, I do advocate using magick to fix problems when you feel its necessary...." A large part of my OP was pointing out the fact that some, expecially those new to magick, don't know the rights and wrongs of it. If I really, really hate some kid who called my friend stupid, I might feel it necessary to put some sort of curse on him. But that dosen't mean I should. I mean, I understand impaired judgement and being blinded by intense feelings (I once was completely convinced I needed to kill my father to save my mother and myself, but lucky for him, he was away for a few days. But that's another story for another day), but that dosen't mean it's right. And yes, you could argue, "who are you to say what's right and wrong?" I would simply reply with, "I'm only trying to protect you and everyone you could come in contact with."
I do advocate using revenge spells, because revenge does feel good. I advocate chaging people's minds, meta-forcefully, should the need arise. The sad thing is, these things do need to be used sometimes, and things need to be changed. Yes, revenge may be "wrong" in someones eyes, but I see no harm in it myself. However, the person getting revenge should consider the bagkground and the foreground first before getting to that level.
She is right. Some spells are just not for newbies. But that why youre newbies... you grow to be oldbies so you can make decisions. So, in your mind, taking out magickal revenge on my father for making my life a living hell is completely acceptable? Believe me, I still dream about killing or seriously injuring my father. I'll be in a store, see a pair of scissors or a garden trowel, and think, "wow, that would look good sticking out of my father's chest." I have a lot of pent up hate and anger toward my father, but I live on the fact that I only have a few more months left before I can be free of it. I've survived 17 years living with him, and about 5 or 6 with his mostly verbal yet sometimes physical abuse. If I've been able to live with that, not to mention my fair share of bullies, without exacting magickal revenge, then it's possible to keep magick out of it. Physical revenge is still better than magickal revenge. I've hit my father with a 2x4, which felt damn good, but I think chasing your daughter around with a power drill merits at least one good smack in the head. So I say, stick with physical revenge. Or verbal. There's nothing wrong with a nice verbal a** kicking every once in a while. Some people take hits to their face better than hits to their reputation. I don't agree with manipulation. You can ruin someone's life in the same way they've ruined yours without changing their mind or affecting how they percieve something. People are something you just don't mess with. There are things worse than death. Regardless of how much you hate someone, there is someone who loves them. And Obscurus, I'm simply stating my opinion that some people do not deserve to be living. I personally think modern medicine keeps the morons alive long enough to procreate, which, in turn, ******** us all over. I'm not saying, "hey you, kill yourself now. No one likes you. Go die, b***h." I am not encouraging any single person to commit suicide. I am simply stating that immaturity and irresponsibility are inexcusable and the most decent thing to do would be to end it entirely. Damn Dras...remind me to beat the living s**t outta yer dad if I ever see him and I will.
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:30 am
Yes Dras we are in one of the guilds many 'fluff periods'. That's why I haven't been posting...
And what kind of crazy doesn't believe in Karma? I'm right here for crying out loud!!!
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:31 pm
[BlkCat] Damn Dras...remind me to beat the living s**t outta yer dad if I ever see him and I will. Eh, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. But I was trying to make a point with something I had personal experience with, since I'm not so well versed in magick. But yeah, you wouldn't be the first to say that. I'd do it myself if I was stronger. But usually when we fight, we use objects (i.e.; power drills and pieces of 2x4). So I suppose it dosen't really matter... And Karma, haha, some people may not have met you, since you've been ducking out due to the fluff.
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