Hidden Meaning

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Ah, but something that is hidden can be found, and the meaning could be just for those I choose to share it with. It is relative to each individual, it doesn't have to be universal

Something is hidden, not to be found, but to 'not be discovered' otherwise why would you hide it?
If you do not wish someone to find it then yes, it would be hidden, but it would not mean anything.
Meaning does reflect the context of the reader and writer but i guess when inserting your idea into a poem, you are wanting people to read and hence understand what you are trying to convey.
If no one understands it, then what is the point of creating poetry?
What is the point of writing your ideas?
What is the point of sharing this with others?
Self satisfaction?

I do not write poetry so that others can understand why I created it, I write it to express what I feel, in the same way that others would write a diary with a lock on it. This is not true of every piece I have written, but this one was certainly a cathartic pursuit.

Then why do you share it?
Why would you share something so ambiguous as so nobody would understand it?
A diary is not meant to be read aloud, nor is a poem which the author does not care to clarify.

Ah, but I did not share it that you may grasp the meaning, I shared it to see if it was as ambiguous as I hoped.

As i have said before, you may not use the word 'meaning' in that context as no meaning is established.
You may use 'idea'.

If you did not share it to express your idea then your idea will only remain YOURS as no one else would understand that. Perhaps that is what you were aiming for, but still i do not understand the meaning of creating something for oneself, creating something that only you may understand, something that serves no purpose to anyone but you.
It sounds rather selfish now, no offence intended.

Well done, your poem is very ambiguous when it comes to the idea you are trying to convey 'between the lines'.
Though i'm not sure how ambiguous you are hoping your poem is, I must say that yours does not clarify the idea to me when i read it.
I must make a last comment that poetry is [Definition from answers.com] "A verbal composition designed to convey experiences, ideas, or emotions in a vivid and imaginative way, characterized by the use of language chosen for its sound and suggestive power and by the use of literary techniques such as meter, metaphor, and rhyme."
If this poem of yours does not convey such things to a reader [meaning is not established] then i do not think you have created a poem.
More like a coded diary entry.

I would suggest that you find a different website. Yes, it is an idea, but it is an idea expressed in that poem thereby making it the poem's meaning. It is not about reading between the lines, it is about not reading between the lines and appreciating what is there without attributing metaphor and cliche that were not there to the text.  

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

I do not write poetry so that others can understand why I created it, I write it to express what I feel, in the same way that others would write a diary with a lock on it. This is not true of every piece I have written, but this one was certainly a cathartic pursuit.

Then why do you share it?
Why would you share something so ambiguous as so nobody would understand it?
A diary is not meant to be read aloud, nor is a poem which the author does not care to clarify.

Ah, but I did not share it that you may grasp the meaning, I shared it to see if it was as ambiguous as I hoped.

As i have said before, you may not use the word 'meaning' in that context as no meaning is established.
You may use 'idea'.

If you did not share it to express your idea then your idea will only remain YOURS as no one else would understand that. Perhaps that is what you were aiming for, but still i do not understand the meaning of creating something for oneself, creating something that only you may understand, something that serves no purpose to anyone but you.
It sounds rather selfish now, no offence intended.

Well done, your poem is very ambiguous when it comes to the idea you are trying to convey 'between the lines'.
Though i'm not sure how ambiguous you are hoping your poem is, I must say that yours does not clarify the idea to me when i read it.
I must make a last comment that poetry is [Definition from answers.com] "A verbal composition designed to convey experiences, ideas, or emotions in a vivid and imaginative way, characterized by the use of language chosen for its sound and suggestive power and by the use of literary techniques such as meter, metaphor, and rhyme."
If this poem of yours does not convey such things to a reader [meaning is not established] then i do not think you have created a poem.
More like a coded diary entry.

I would suggest that you find a different website. Yes, it is an idea, but it is an idea expressed in that poem thereby making it the poem's meaning. It is not about reading between the lines, it is about not reading between the lines and appreciating what is there without attributing metaphor and cliche that were not there to the text.

Haha, there's nothing wrong with the website.
As i have said countless times before::
MEANING IS CONSTRUCTED FROM A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE READER AND THE WRITER.
The poem would not have a meaning were nobody to understand it, as no relationship would occur.
How do you know that the idea is really expressed? If it were hidden then who would be the one/s looking for it?
Are you sure that someone will find what you have 'hid'?

I never said that it meant anything to the average reader. But it is there still, if you know how to find it. As I have said; just because it is hidden, that does not mean that it cannot be found.  

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Miyaz

and_solo_said

Ah, but I did not share it that you may grasp the meaning, I shared it to see if it was as ambiguous as I hoped.

As i have said before, you may not use the word 'meaning' in that context as no meaning is established.
You may use 'idea'.

If you did not share it to express your idea then your idea will only remain YOURS as no one else would understand that. Perhaps that is what you were aiming for, but still i do not understand the meaning of creating something for oneself, creating something that only you may understand, something that serves no purpose to anyone but you.
It sounds rather selfish now, no offence intended.

Well done, your poem is very ambiguous when it comes to the idea you are trying to convey 'between the lines'.
Though i'm not sure how ambiguous you are hoping your poem is, I must say that yours does not clarify the idea to me when i read it.
I must make a last comment that poetry is [Definition from answers.com] "A verbal composition designed to convey experiences, ideas, or emotions in a vivid and imaginative way, characterized by the use of language chosen for its sound and suggestive power and by the use of literary techniques such as meter, metaphor, and rhyme."
If this poem of yours does not convey such things to a reader [meaning is not established] then i do not think you have created a poem.
More like a coded diary entry.

I would suggest that you find a different website. Yes, it is an idea, but it is an idea expressed in that poem thereby making it the poem's meaning. It is not about reading between the lines, it is about not reading between the lines and appreciating what is there without attributing metaphor and cliche that were not there to the text.

Haha, there's nothing wrong with the website.
As i have said countless times before::
MEANING IS CONSTRUCTED FROM A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE READER AND THE WRITER.
The poem would not have a meaning were nobody to understand it, as no relationship would occur.
How do you know that the idea is really expressed? If it were hidden then who would be the one/s looking for it?
Are you sure that someone will find what you have 'hid'?

I never said that it meant anything to the average reader. But it is there still, if you know how to find it. As I have said; just because it is hidden, that does not mean that it cannot be found.

I have rebutted every one of your arguments so far. And yet, I am unsatisfied with your retorts
How could meaning be there when no one can see it apart from you, the writer? Because it means something to me
Are there different 'levels' of readers now? Yes
The 'average' reader, what else? The 'experienced' reader?
The 'writer-like' reader? Correct
Because as far as i can see, the only reader who could discern your idea is you.
Show the whole world, find someone who finds this idea of yours and i will not pursue this argument anymore.
If you hide something, YOU can find it.
You hide something BECAUSE you do not want it to be found, or why would you hide it? To make people look harder
If you hide something in a poem, YOU can find it, but the 'average' reader would not.
What kind of reader are you looking for? One who accepts what they see without cluttering it with what they have read before
God?

 

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

Ok. This is the last time i say this:
Meaning is a term used to describe an idea which has been successfully understood by a reader from a relationship/understaning between the reader and writer in respect to their contexts.
A meaning is there, whether they can grasp it or not.
You are the writer.
The readers don't understand your idea, thus no meaning is achieved.
It is there, but it is hidden

There are not different 'levels' of readers, only readers with a different contextual background and understanding.
Which puts them on different levels of understanding

Then it wouldn't really be hidden would it?
If someone can find it, then you havn't really 'hidden' that idea from the reader.
Yes I have, it was hidden, when they find it, it is no longer hidden, but until then, it shall remain so
You have only subtly indicated an idea behind the dominant reading of the text, which would probably be a recessive reading.

I do not understand your last comment.
It is what the reader has read before that makes them think they know what it is about. If they approach it with a clear mind, they could see any number of possibilities.

 

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

In context to my definition of meaning (taught to me by a number of teachers in High School - Rossmoyne Senior High school, the best Public High School in Australia via The Sunday Times), there is no meaning without the understanding of the reader.
Thus you cannot call your idea meaning till there is someone who understands it.
The meaning is still there, I shall persue this end no more

I wouldn't really call it 'levels' of understanding as there are no definate properties which may separate the understanding of readers into levels.
It would be: different readings, a commonly used term when addressing different viewpoints on a particular poem/story/movie etc.
Would a slack-jawed in-bred Texan be on thhe same level as Stephen Fry?

Are readers to know that you have hidden something?
In their view, if they cannot find it, it is simply not there.
Though it may be 'hidden' to you, the writer.
Just because they do not know it is there does not mean it is not. The readers do not dictate what was written into the poem

A clear mind? Explain please.
One would assume it to be the tale of Sleeping Beauty, because their mmind is cluttered with such cliched images. To understand it, they need to forget these.

 

[and_solo_said]

Miyaz

Please don't defile my post! gonk

Meaning cannot exist without those who understand it.
What would it mean if nobody understood it? Nothing.
Yes, it's better not to pursue this argument anymore since a more open mind is needed.
*Gives up*

Slack-jawed in-bred Texan?
Stephen Fry?
That's not the point.
The point is that how can you classify people's understanding into levels?
What makes people say, level 1? Level 2?
You cannot fully separate the amount of understanding one achieves to base that on 'levels'.
Level 1 - cannot read
Level 2 - can read, but is an idiot
Level 3 - has some basic understanding of what they are reading
Level 4 - has reasonable understanding of what they are reading
Level 5+ - should actually bother reading anything meaningful

Yes, the readers do dictate the poem.
A poem may mean anything to those who read it, we are merely the ones who put pen to paper and compose our 'story'.
The readers are the ones to interpret the text.
Texts mean different things to different people due to the different contexts of those people.
Just because you're writing the poem and understanding it in your context does not mean that others will see your poem and understand the same thing.
For example, many pieces of literature have been disputed over for centuries due to their ambiguous nature and how a clear meaning can be established.
Who knows what the author was trying to say?
The readers read and interpret that text the best they can in their context, this may differ from the reader's.
They are still wrong though