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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:30 pm
suikodenmaster1324 Cuz apparently if you seal a true rune the owner soon dies afterwards. When was that ever stated?
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:40 pm
It wasn't... but they tell you a few times throughout the games that if you have a true rune for a long time and then lose it/seal it, you can die pretty quickly. But I don't think the FC had it for that long, compared to say, Geddoe.
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:38 pm
I would probably believe it, but Ted set it up for that to be a bit untrue. What with him having it for 300 years (give or take a few years without) and he took it off and didn't go from this...  ... to this...  almost instantly. You'd think something like that would happen while he's walking to the front door.
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:30 pm
Nice visuals, Soma.
You're right, it's not exactly an overnight thing. Geddoe didn't die the next day without his True Lightning Rune. After you lose your rune after having it for an extended period of time, you would probably die in a couple of months, depending on how long you've had it. Hikusaak probably wouldn't last a month without his Circle Rune, I'd reckon... Him being a crusty old man and all. If Sierra wasn't a vampire, she'd probably bite the dust without the Blue Moon pretty quickly too. In Suikoden Terms, 300 years isn't TOO long... sortakindanotreally.
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:13 pm
Gotta love imagery.
I read (from the fabled Suikosource) that the Flame Champion lived for a few years afterward. So he has the TR for probably what? A decade or so? A decade or so with the rune gave him only a few years afterward? I say that's a good indication.
But now that I think about it, this makes me sad. The true runes are a EXTREME burden and responsibility. And how many would actually know the TR does this if you remove/seal it? It's like take it or leave it deal.
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:28 pm
Of course, all of this is sort of debunked by Grahm Cray. He had the Rune of Punishment for a while, chopped off his hand to get rid of it, and then lived on for years and years before he died.
I don't think there's a connection at all.
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:20 pm
Ah, I forgot about that guy. One could throw a couple of theories as to why Cray didn't die, but I'm sure not going to be the one.
Silly thought: If removing the rune thing was true... What would happen to Barbarossa's sword if he removed the Sovereign?
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:28 pm
Lily_Mercury Of course, all of this is sort of debunked by Grahm Cray. He had the Rune of Punishment for a while, chopped off his hand to get rid of it, and then lived on for years and years before he died. I don't think there's a connection at all. I would imagine that's because he only had it for a short while. It probably only affects you if you have it for an extended period of time... like 70 years or so.
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:46 pm
It's still a hole in the theory. Several True Rune bearers have lost their runes for extended periods of time after bearing them for long-a** periods of time with no ill effects, such as in S3, where the 5 elemental runes get jumbled around between just about everyone towards the end, or Sierra losing the Blue Moon rune for a such a long time before regaining it. I mean, she was missing the rune for several hundred years while Neclord was with Windy. Even if she is a Vampire, according to your theory she SHOULD have died. But she didn't.
Losing a True Rune doesn't kill the bearer. The will of the True Runes can bend fate to kill the bearer, but only if the rune deems it necessary. And until I see official word from Konami along with explainations for how the above anomalies exist, that's how it's got to be.
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:17 pm
Umm, in Suikoden 3, the only guy to lose their True Rune and be old enough to warrant dying is Geddoe.
And he doesn't lose it long enough for his body to think "********. We're out of magic juice".
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[Subject to Availability]
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:35 pm
Um, are we just ignoring Sasari or what?
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:54 pm
Geddoe WOULD die if he didn't get his rune back soon enough. Also, Luc and Sasarai can't survive for a long time (probably around a month) without their runes, but only because... they were made around them. They don't die immediately after losing them, however.
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:11 pm
But that's just your theory. I don't think he would have. There's no proof that a bearer dies when their rune is removed, but there IS proof saying the opposite.
And if Sasarai were made around the rune, he should have died instantly when it was stripped from him. Instead he lived for a few weeks without it.
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:10 am
Actually, Luc and Sasarai were made to host the Runes, not that the Runes were made around them. So they could survive without the Runes, just not for very long. Unless I'm misreading your statement.
At any rate, the only bearer we know of who died because their True Rune was removed is the Flame Champion, right? Remember that the Fire Spells in that game also hurt your allies as well as enemies. This could have been a side-effect of the True Fire Rune, dieing if it's removed, and not the others. Unless I'm missing something.
As for "having it for so long that if it's removed you're gonna DIES theory," well, I can think of a few examples for either side of the argument.
Take Sierra, for example. It's stated in Richmond's investigations that all vampires, despite their elongated lifespans, will die someday, Sierra being the exception because she bears the Blue Moon Rune. It can be argued that if she did not reclaim the BMR, she would have died. But in Tinto, the BMR recognized Sierra and returned to her. Sierra bore the BMR for over 800 years, and so it recognized it as its master even though Neclord had it. The same goes for Ted- Tir had the Souleater, but because the SE still recognized Ted as it's master because of how long he bore it, it would still follow his command to kill him. Geddoe had the TLR for I think around 90 years, so it could possibly have bonded with him and so allowed him to live for X amount of time. So, it's likely that the longer one bears a True Rune, the more bonded it will become with it, and so will grant it elongated life for some time
On the flip side however, one could argue that Sierra lived so long because she was a Vampire, Ted was only gone from the picture for three years and the Fog Ship and its Guide hands out immortality, and Geddoe was without the TLR for a few weeks, I think. It's been shown that True Runes can kill if given up (Flame Champion), so it's possible that if a bearer did not reclaim the Rune in time, s/he would die.
Or it could all just depend on the Rune itself. The TFR obviously kills, but the rest are up for grabs.
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:09 pm
Except that Sana clearly says that the Fire Champion lived for years after he got rid of the rune. Unless I missed something myself.
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