Hehe, I think I know a reasonable amount of Xenosaga. I think shojokakumeii00 knows more than me. For the psychology stuff dealing with the game I already know that stuff because I have studied Jung's works for awhile. On the game, there is a Keyword section and I read through that and sometimes I look it up for more information. Plus I played through the game 3 times (Going on 4th) and I notice something new everytime. As for your questions:
How come Jr hasn't grown up?
I'm not to sure on this (I haven't played part 2), but I think he is staying that way on purpose and I bet there is a very good reason why he is doing it.
Did the Song do something to him?
I think when he was younger the Song did affect him (By making him and others go mad/insane). The reason I don't think it bother him now is because late in the game he hears the Song, but he doesn't go crazy.
And in the end what was Chaos doing?
I am not to sure about that, either. I do believe it is relating to KOS-MOS as she is saving the Elsa. It could be like this, Shion knew KOS-MOS couldn't survive if she saves the Elsa and chaos gives KOS-MOS wings to help keep her alive for several reasons.
Maybe some of the answers will be revealed in Xenosaga 2. 3nodding
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:40 pm
Syn_Beloved
Hehe, I think I a reasonable amount of Xenosaga. I think shojokakumeii00 knows more than me. For the psychology stuff dealing with the game I already know that stuff because I have studied Jung's works for awhile. On the game, there is a Keyword section and I read through that and sometimes I look it up for more information. Plus I played through the game 3 times (Going on 4th) and I notice something new everytime. As for your questions:
How come Jr hasn't grown up?
I'm not to sure on this (I haven't played part 2), but I think he is staying that way on purpose and I bet there is a very good reason why he is doing it.
Did the Song do something to him?
I think when he was younger the Song did affect him (By making him and others go mad/insane). The reason I don't think it bother him now is because late in the game he hears the Song, but he doesn't go crazy.
And in the end what was Chaos doing?
I am not to sure about that, either. I do believe it is relating to KOS-MOS as she is saving the Elsa. It could be like this, Shion knew KOS-MOS couldn't survive if she saves the Elsa and chaos gives KOS-MOS wings to help keep her alive for several reasons.
Maybe some of the answers will be revealed in Xenosaga 2. 3nodding
Ok.^^ Thanks.I think I've figured out why Jr doesn't get older.I found it on one of the sites shojokakumeii00 posted. And that's what I though Chaos was doing,but wasn't sure.I thought he was the one giving her wings.^-^ And is it just me,or does Chaos like Kos-Mos? whee
Pikagirl18
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:37 pm
Syn_Beloved
Hehe, I think I a reasonable amount of Xenosaga. I think shojokakumeii00 knows more than me. For the psychology stuff dealing with the game I already know that stuff because I have studied Jung's works for awhile. On the game, there is a Keyword section and I read through that and sometimes I look it up for more information. Plus I played through the game 3 times (Going on 4th) and I notice something new everytime. As for your questions:
How come Jr hasn't grown up?
I'm not to sure on this (I haven't played part 2), but I think he is staying that way on purpose and I bet there is a very good reason why he is doing it.
Did the Song do something to him?
I think when he was younger the Song did affect him (By making him and others go mad/insane). The reason I don't think it bother him now is because late in the game he hears the Song, but he doesn't go crazy.
And in the end what was Chaos doing?
I am not to sure about that, either. I do believe it is relating to KOS-MOS as she is saving the Elsa. It could be like this, Shion knew KOS-MOS couldn't survive if she saves the Elsa and chaos gives KOS-MOS wings to help keep her alive for several reasons.
Maybe some of the answers will be revealed in Xenosaga 2. 3nodding
(Note: Some minor ep 1 spoilers follow, ep2 spoilers have been tagged)
Well I can sort of answer some of these, I don't know if any of this was explained in ep 2 (can't understand Japanese - I got the jist of a lot of it but I"m missing a lot). As far as Jr. is concerned I don't know if this is an ep2 thing or just an assumed speculation but I'll tag the part I"m not sure about as a spoiler in case: First I'll explain that one of Jr's URTV abilities is to control time/growth (I believe this was in the database but I could be wrong). During the Miltian Conflict the URTV unit was deployed to combat U-DO -
at which time Negredo was severely injured (it was sort of Rubedo's fault) now here's the part I"m not sure about, Rubedo apparently expended a large ammount of his life force to protect/save Negredo (I think...) and because of that he can no longer grow - that's my understanding of it, sorry if it's not very clear I"m not to sure about it myself.
About the Song, I don't think it actually effected Jr./Rubedo the reason it effected Albedo and the other URTVs had to do with Jr. breaking the mental link between the group, why Jr. himself was uneffected by the Song, I"m not too sure (I think it may have been explained in episode 2 but I didn't understand it).
As for chaos, there are a lot of theories about this, I kind of think that KOS-MOS tapped into his powers, much like when she tapped into the Zohars on the Durandal during the first blue-eyed incident. But that's just my theory.
I hope that helps a little, I'm sorry if I got anything wrong, I have a hard time remembering what was fact presented in the game/UMN database and what is just generally accepted by some XS communities (ie. at Zenosaga.com it's generally assumed that Red Cloak is Kevin, etc).
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:50 pm
I hope no one mind me putting a few more theories or ideas here. No one in my area plays the game so I don't get really get to talk about Xenosaga much, but here.
Sorry, if someone already thought of this. Spoilers ahead.
Remember how KOS-MOS's eyes turned blue when she was going to deal with the Gnosis on her own? I wonder if that was her way of becoming human. I thought about it when she was heading up to deal with the Gnosis when she asked Shion if she feel pain will she be human (Or something like that). When she looked up her eyes were blue, a normal eye color for someone who is human. It is possible that it is something completely different.
In the ending, when KOS-MOS is going to save the Elsa and she said to chaos "Relinquish your pain onto me". Maybe when chaos gave KOS-MOS wings, that was his way of relinquishing his pain. I'm sure KOS-MOS notices chaos is not who he seems.
This next part I have to thank shojokakumeii00 for this. If she didn't post her idea about the Zohar, I wouldn't have thought about this. Her theory is here Clicky
Remember the part when the Commander started turning into a Gnosis shortly after admitting he was the one who made Ariadne vanished? In the story shojokakumeii00, the little girl who lied about the opening the 13th door and was punished. What if this was the Commander's punishment for his dealings with the emulator. But because he admitted what he did, he was able to find peace in the end.
Just some thoughts. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:57 am
Syn_Beloved - don't worry about posting theories and what not, that's exactly what this topic is for, though if you want to you can always make a specific topic relating to a particular theory it doesn't really matter
Ooh that's really interesting, I hadn't thought about that thing with Cherenkov. It makes a lot of sense though.
Semi-spoilers for ep1 follow...
As for KOS-MOS' blue-eyed mode, I really haven't been able to figure much out about it that's not beyond pure speculation but there are a few things that seem to occur with the two times it happens in episode 1 [minor ep 2 spoiler]though the one occurance in episode 2 is a little strange and off from the pattern a bit - she's still protecting Shion but the whole sequence has a very different feel 1. She's always protecting Shion (and the rest of the crew, but Shion seems to be key) 2. She seems to be drawing power from some other source during the event (during event 1 she hacks into the Durandal and draws power from the emulators, during event 2 she appears to draw power from chaos) 3. She acts on her own, generally disobeying Shion/the group 4. And of course her eyes turn blue
Now as for number 1, there are a number of reasons that she might be doing this. Firstly because she's protective of Shion, seeing her as a mother figure maybe - or maybe just because that's how she's programed - which leads me to my second point: maybe it's part of the "black box" programed by Kevin that Shion should be KOS-MOS' highest priority. Number 2 seems to have something to do with the Zohar (well the chaos thing makes more sense if you subscribe to the theory that both he and Wilhelm are projections of the Zohar, or that they're just other worldly beings in general with some obvious connection to the object), KOS-MOS, being part of the Zohar Project would most likely have some connection to it. Both of her lines before/during the events, "Shion... Will feeling pain make me... complete?" and "Relinquish your pain... unto me." have something to do with KOS-MOS feeling or taking pain unto herself. Now assuming that "pain" is the power taken from the Zohar/other similar entities, one might come to the conclusion that the power attained through such devices is either something painful to use or that the power of these things is pain - in that maybe the sheer existance of the things is a punishment of sorts for the universe, or maybe (warning uber cliche comming) that the source of power for them is pain and suffering. Number 3 and 4 are closely connected in my theory, I can't remember where I read it but apparently the color red is generally associated with order (side note: the greek "kosmos" means order) - note also that Wilhelm's eyes are red and chaos' blue - but Blue is generally assosated with chaos. The change in eye color I think represents KOS-MOS' switch from order (as an android or logical if you will) to chaos (like a human - illogical in another sense, as KOS-MOS basically puts it herself). A number of conclusions could be drawn from this as well, one might be that KOS-MOS is changing controlers, from Wilhelm to chaos, as Wilhelm obviously has some ammount of power over her for the most part of the game and chaos seems to have some hidden connection to her. And there are a lot of other possibilities for this but I have to go for now I'll finish this up later...Feel free to continue speculating on the topic though
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:32 am
@_@ Good gracious, these theories are so fascinating. I wish I had any theories for myself to divulge but I don't, sadly. I have no organized thought, anyhow... sweatdrop
Milleia
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Syn_Beloved
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:12 pm
Mileia, it's ok. Maybe after reading some of thing you may get an idea or expand on someone's else.
The change in eye color I think represents KOS-MOS' switch from order (as an android or logical if you will) to chaos (like a human - illogical in another sense, as KOS-MOS basically puts it herself). --I really like that and it does make scene.
Another reason for KOS-MOS talking about pain may be she wants to know if she exist. You know how sometimes we have a dream and it seems real, but it is not? Maybe she wants to know if she truly exist if she can feel pain?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:51 am
Quote:
And is it just me,or does Chaos like Kos-Mos?
According to one of my pet theories (that I didn't come up with myself), chaos is Jesus and KOS-MOS is Mary Magdalene. According to Gnosticism, they were lovers. So it's likely that chaos remembers that they were in love, and wants to remind KOS-MOS of that.
I and X Cubestation from Gamefaqs came up with the idea that Shion might be the Holy Grail, who was really a person--whose parents were Jesus and Mary. It would explain why she was untouched by the Gnosis (she has some of chaos' powers!) and why she is vital to KOS-MOS.
Just thoughts.
Tsaret
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Milleia
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:07 am
Ekplixi
Quote:
And is it just me,or does Chaos like Kos-Mos?
According to one of my pet theories (that I didn't come up with myself), chaos is Jesus and KOS-MOS is Mary Magdalene. According to Gnosticism, they were lovers. So it's likely that chaos remembers that they were in love, and wants to remind KOS-MOS of that.
I and X Cubestation from Gamefaqs came up with the idea that Shion might be the Holy Grail, who was really a person--whose parents were Jesus and Mary. It would explain why she was untouched by the Gnosis (she has some of chaos' powers!) and why she is vital to KOS-MOS.
Just thoughts.
Ho damn, that is a very interesting theory right there, yes yes. But I wonder how KOS-MOS would be like a reincarnation of or a vessel for Mary Magdalene since she was created by Kevin and Vector Industries and not flesh and blood like chaos may presumably be? confused I mean, yes it can be very possible....but uh yeah...okay. Ignore this is you want. xp I still like the theory and such
By the way... Did you ever read the Da Vinci Code?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:38 pm
Mileia_Sermones_III
Ekplixi
Quote:
And is it just me,or does Chaos like Kos-Mos?
According to one of my pet theories (that I didn't come up with myself), chaos is Jesus and KOS-MOS is Mary Magdalene. According to Gnosticism, they were lovers. So it's likely that chaos remembers that they were in love, and wants to remind KOS-MOS of that.
I and X Cubestation from Gamefaqs came up with the idea that Shion might be the Holy Grail, who was really a person--whose parents were Jesus and Mary. It would explain why she was untouched by the Gnosis (she has some of chaos' powers!) and why she is vital to KOS-MOS.
Just thoughts.
Ho damn, that is a very interesting theory right there, yes yes. But I wonder how KOS-MOS would be like a reincarnation of or a vessel for Mary Magdalene since she was created by Kevin and Vector Industries and not flesh and blood like chaos may presumably be? confused I mean, yes it can be very possible....but uh yeah...okay. Ignore this is you want. xp I still like the theory and such
By the way... Did you ever read the Da Vinci Code?
We think that Wilhelm stole the original Mary Magdalene and turned her into the andriod KOS-MOS. The conciousness and memories of Mary are probably buried underneath all that programming. Kevin did something with her involving Black Boxes, so it's likely that Kevin actually knew that KOS-MOS is really Mary.
I haven't been able to get the Da Vinci Code from the library yet, but I'm working on it! biggrin I think that with this theory in mind I'll find it very very interesting.
Tsaret
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Milleia
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Ekplixi
We think that Wilhelm stole the original Mary Magdalene and turned her into the andriod KOS-MOS. The conciousness and memories of Mary are probably buried underneath all that programming. Kevin did something with her involving Black Boxes, so it's likely that Kevin actually knew that KOS-MOS is really Mary.
I haven't been able to get the Da Vinci Code from the library yet, but I'm working on it! biggrin I think that with this theory in mind I'll find it very very interesting.
I see... That is interesting...so what would that make Wilhelm? An apostle, guardian family member, or etc., reincarnated who watched over Mary Magdalene? And I nearly forgot about the black boxes... Hmmm, very nice unfolding theory indeed.
And yes, do get that book. I was riveted for weeks, I couldn't put it down until I was completely and totally done reading that book. biggrin
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:20 pm
Mileia_Sermones_III
Ekplixi
We think that Wilhelm stole the original Mary Magdalene and turned her into the andriod KOS-MOS. The conciousness and memories of Mary are probably buried underneath all that programming. Kevin did something with her involving Black Boxes, so it's likely that Kevin actually knew that KOS-MOS is really Mary.
I haven't been able to get the Da Vinci Code from the library yet, but I'm working on it! biggrin I think that with this theory in mind I'll find it very very interesting.
I see... That is interesting...so what would that make Wilhelm? An apostle, guardian family member, or etc., reincarnated who watched over Mary Magdalene? And I nearly forgot about the black boxes... Hmmm, very nice unfolding theory indeed.
And yes, do get that book. I was riveted for weeks, I couldn't put it down until I was completely and totally done reading that book. biggrin
I think that Wilhelm might be Lucifer, but X Cube thinks he's Odin. There are lots of different bits of evidence towards either theory, so...
Tsaret
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Rastlain
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Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:51 am
i thought the game was one of the koolest games i have played. i just don't want to wait till February 2005 to get the second one. I WANT IT NOW!!! crying
Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:13 pm
Ekplixi
I think that Wilhelm might be Lucifer, but X Cube thinks he's Odin. There are lots of different bits of evidence towards either theory, so...
Wilhelm is still confusing me about exactly what mythical figure he's representing (if it's a mythical figure at all), since all of the characters are refferencing something it's doubtful that'd they'd just leave Wilhelm out of the whole symbolism thing.
Now one thought I had, probably only due to the fact that we just finished a unit on WWI in history, was that maybe Wilhelm is a refference to Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany - now I don't know enough about the Kaiser to say much other than that they share both a name and a seat of power.
Again with the name connections, one of the brothers Grimm was named Wilhelm (if I'm not mistaken, google isn't infalible) - it doesn't seem like a very big connection until you concider the only (that I know of - I haven't seen any others yet) allusion to the brothers Grimm was in the story of Marienkind - which I'm not going to go into in depth since I already have another topic about it, but basically it has to do with equating the 13 doors of heaven to the 13 zohar emulators, etc. Again not a whole lot to support this theory, but it's an interesting thought.
Though probably of more note than the previous two, Nietzsche's full name is Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. Seeing as how each episode has been titled after a work by Nietzsche and how [really minor ep 2 spoiler] Wilhelm quotes Nietzsche at the end of ep 2 maybe Wilhelm is a refference to Nietzche himself - or that could just be one aspect of the symbolism around him.
And lastly with my name tangent, the etemology of the name Wilhelm, from behindthename.com: "...Wilhelm, which was composed of the elements wil 'will, desire' and helm 'helmet, protection'." The most interesting component is probably "Wil" concidering that Wilhelm makes at least one comment regarding someone's will during the game, especially if you concider his line: "His will shines with such wondrous light. It's a shame to relegate him to such a minor role." maybe that's where the "helm" - "protection" comes in and that might make him the protector of wills (is there a mythological figure with a similar role? I haven't found it yet but I haven't been looking for very long). Eh, I'm just typing this as I go so I haven't really thoroughly thought out any of this yet, but hopefully someone'll be able to make some sense of it.
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