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| What is the best T2 deck? |
| Tooth and Nail |
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34% |
[ 8 ] |
| Mono Blue Shackles |
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21% |
[ 5 ] |
| Red Deck Wins |
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21% |
[ 5 ] |
| Rats |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| Beacon Green |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| White Weenie |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 23 |
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:05 pm
I'm honestly not scared of Pithing Needle.
And Skullclamp? Please! The only reason why it was banned was because of the card draw for practically no cost to you, that's why it was busted. I could clamp a creature, then feed it to Ravager draw cards and fatten Ravager, and those two cards that I drew I could probably play and later feed to Ravager again thanks to my Affinity! That is the only reason why Skullclamp was banned.
Pithing Needle, though good, don't get me wrong, offers none of those benefits; it's just a quaint little control card that most decks will end up playing until Kamigawa block goes out of Type 2 and Extended.
Metaljesse: I love the way you put that, and so true, also.
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:18 pm
metaljesse Kilz88 1313.EXE metaljesse Ya know what I like? Killing a tooth player before they cast tooth. smile
all their mana to cast heh.
tooth then rewind it. lol Ummm...im gonna have to say...boseju pal...no rewind for you... Let me ask you something.... How can you be proud of Tooth and Nail when it's not even your deck. It's a deck some Japanese team thought of and won a tournament with, and got posted on the internet. I mean...what pride is there in piloting a deck you haven't made? I don't care what "tech" you're running, but you're probably just using what you saw on the internet to speed up tooth. There's nothing honorable about playing a net-deck, my friend. Yeah, I've played net decks in my time. Affinity, High Tide, Trix, etc, but I never took a whole lot of pride in my playing of them. I feel best playing decks I create, and winning with those decks against b*****d net deckers makes me feel extremely good. Now, with all this bragging of your Tooth deck, have you thought about how much creature kill and a well-placed Barter in Blood ******** you up? What happens when your Urza-tron gets Sowing Salted away? What if a Mono Blue Control player sides in THEIR boseiju to mess with you even more? What happens when your Tooth is Quashed? Cranial Extractioned? How does it feel when someone goes "2nd turn, Persecute naming green" and your hand just drops into the graveyard. What about recurrant Plow Under? Eternal Witness/Plow Under/Stampeding Serow is a big combo now in green. And you know green is the most played color. Ya know..I hope you 3rd turn tooth me. That way, you have nothing in the way of my Barter in Blood, and I lose hardly any tempo. I hope you realize how unstable Tooth is, and how much people are sideboarding against you everywhere. Just because you can beat your little friends at the card shop doesn't mean you're worth s**t. So, don't give me this Net-decker's hubris b.s. Ok pal...you dont have to be an a** #1. #2 i never said tooth was the best deck in standerd in my opinion. In a majority of the magic population it is...but not me. As for playing rogue im totally with you dude. I used to be all for that. Id get awesome wins that would be so fun and so humiliating for the net deck player i was beating...But honestly, i won matches...not tournaments. By stoping playing for the whole winter...(I left after darksteel and came back with betrayers) ...and doing my reasearch online i found again and again that the metagame wins...ALWAYS. I havent seen a rogue deck win a BIG tournament in a LONG time. I cant even remember. So you see, i comprimised. My tech is MINE. I read the spoiler for saviors and said. Im gonna try that...and for me it has worked. So no it wasent a net-tech. So i got my old love for rogue mixed with the winning decks...ya know? As for all those things that can happen to tooth to screw it up...If you think about it and are honest with yourself, you can do that for any deck. Thats what magic IS. Advantages and disadvantages. NO deck is flawless...Even a vintage deck with power...So i agree that kinda crap can happen to tooth and screw it up. But, I could do that for any deck i were to be presented with. Anyone who is good at magic could. Every deck has flaws. I agree. But before you judge, find out everything about the person you are judging. You could've asked what the tech was or something before bashing me. But luckily im a nice guy and i took it as constructive criticism... mrgreen Thanks... And without further adiou...Scout and Nail 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder 4 Sakura-Tribe Scout4 Reap and Sow 4 Sylvan Scrying 4 Tooth and Nail 3 Eternal Witness 3 Sensei's Divining Top 3 Oblivion Stone 2 Talisman of Unity 2 Mindslaver 1 Duplicant 1 Darksteel Colossus 1 Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker 1 Platinum Angel 4 Urza's Mine 4 Urza's Power Plant 4 Urza's Tower 10 Forest 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All SB4 Creeping Mold 3 Sacred Ground 3 Pithing Needle 2 COP: Red 2 Plains 1 Leonin Abunas Tell me what ya think?...
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:52 pm
Tooth and Nail won't win a lot of regionals. Blue will. Why? Because R&D was stupid enough to give blue a ******** fork! Called twincast. Which is regoddamndiculous. However, tooth being an easy deck to hate on and dominate is easy to beat. But blue is catching major hate now so I'm not saying either will win. I'm actually betting on red sligh to sneak up and jump regionals with a bang. The ones I've seen on MTGO, like people prepping for regionals that have like 2000+ DCI ratings, are playing Sligh with, believe it or not, Jinxed Choaker...yeah that stupid little rare from mirrodin. They drop early game firewalker. then play this awesome card called Thoughts of Ruin after dropping the jinxed choaker. While they're pounding you in the face with Firewalker the choaker is killing you off and making you within magma jet range and such. Not to mention against most decks, like tooth and blue, thoughts of ruin = game over. So that's my advice for regionals. Find a big red decklist and modify it. Take out some of the more hate cards and knock sloggers down to 3 and put in 4 thoughts of ruin and 2 choakers and you'll dominate.
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:24 pm
Dark Lord Yawgmoth Tooth and Nail won't win a lot of regionals. Blue will. Why? Because R&D was stupid enough to give blue a ******** fork! Called twincast. Which is regoddamndiculous. However, tooth being an easy deck to hate on and dominate is easy to beat. But blue is catching major hate now so I'm not saying either will win. I'm actually betting on red sligh to sneak up and jump regionals with a bang. The ones I've seen on MTGO, like people prepping for regionals that have like 2000+ DCI ratings, are playing Sligh with, believe it or not, Jinxed Choaker...yeah that stupid little rare from mirrodin. They drop early game firewalker. then play this awesome card called Thoughts of Ruin after dropping the jinxed choaker. While they're pounding you in the face with Firewalker the choaker is killing you off and making you within magma jet range and such. Not to mention against most decks, like tooth and blue, thoughts of ruin = game over. So that's my advice for regionals. Find a big red decklist and modify it. Take out some of the more hate cards and knock sloggers down to 3 and put in 4 thoughts of ruin and 2 choakers and you'll dominate. Word. But quite honestly...im not putting my money on anything but myself and maybe the guy im going with (sclickh). Not to be arrogant but to be confidant. Im not getting my hopes up, im just going in with what i think is the best deck for me to play, and at my highest level of game. So basically im rooting for myself and my deck. Anyone would do that. But you make a very good point that i respect and consider. I also appreciate you not being rude about it...thanks for the advice! mrgreen
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:44 pm
Obersturmbannfuehrer Chii I'm honestly not scared of Pithing Needle. And Skullclamp? Please! The only reason why it was banned was because of the card draw for practically no cost to you, that's why it was busted. I could clamp a creature, then feed it to Ravager draw cards and fatten Ravager, and those two cards that I drew I could probably play and later feed to Ravager again thanks to my Affinity! That is the only reason why Skullclamp was banned. Pithing Needle, though good, don't get me wrong, offers none of those benefits; it's just a quaint little control card that most decks will end up playing until Kamigawa block goes out of Type 2 and Extended. Metaljesse: I love the way you put that, and so true, also. Pithing needle has a cost to you? Yea, i didnt think so either...a quaint little control card that shuts down at least one staple card in every metagame deck... And you put it best..."most decks will end up playing until Kamigawa block goes out of Type 2 and Extended."...except one little change... EVERY deck (that can afford it) will be using this card if not main then in side board until it cycles out of T2 and extended. Wait...i wont even get started on how it can wreck vintage. Not as much as T2 but it can hurt some decks. Hun, its not that its ability i THAT great...Its that it costs 1...1 mana. Turn one cranial extraction for any number of cards and just cause i can: sakura-tribe elder, sensei's divining top, oblivion stone, mindslaver, kiki-jiki, netzumi shortfang, sword of fire and ice, jitte, arc-slogger, kumano, vulshok sorcerer, genju of..., stalking stones, nexus, jushi apprentice, meloku, shackles, and aether vial...get my point? Turn one, "name a card. That card is useless...until you destroy this artifact" Which is followed by them playing another one naming something more hurtful...i say...RESTRICT
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:02 pm
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:00 am
metaljesse Let me ask you something.... How can you be proud of Tooth and Nail when it's not even your deck. It's a deck some Japanese team thought of and won a tournament with, and got posted on the internet. I mean...what pride is there in piloting a deck you haven't made? I don't care what "tech" you're running, but you're probably just using what you saw on the internet to speed up tooth. There's nothing honorable about playing a net-deck, my friend. Yeah, I've played net decks in my time. Affinity, High Tide, Trix, etc, but I never took a whole lot of pride in my playing of them. I feel best playing decks I create, and winning with those decks against b*****d net deckers makes me feel extremely good. Now, with all this bragging of your Tooth deck, have you thought about how much creature kill and a well-placed Barter in Blood ******** you up? What happens when your Urza-tron gets Sowing Salted away? What if a Mono Blue Control player sides in THEIR boseiju to mess with you even more? What happens when your Tooth is Quashed? Cranial Extractioned? How does it feel when someone goes "2nd turn, Persecute naming green" and your hand just drops into the graveyard. What about recurrant Plow Under? Eternal Witness/Plow Under/Stampeding Serow is a big combo now in green. And you know green is the most played color. Ya know..I hope you 3rd turn tooth me. That way, you have nothing in the way of my Barter in Blood, and I lose hardly any tempo. I hope you realize how unstable Tooth is, and how much people are sideboarding against you everywhere. Just because you can beat your little friends at the card shop doesn't mean you're worth s**t. So, don't give me this Net-decker's hubris b.s. Pride is taking a deck, making it your own, playtesting it a lot, and winning. You feel great when you hang out with friends at a tournament, personally I don't get a kick out of trashing someone with a rogue deck. Killz is a great rogue deck player so stop making so many assumptions. He's barely said anything about his deck and you start ranting about morals and crap. Another thing....don't post up situational cards, its just stupid. Especially when there are ways around them or nobody even uses them in the meta game. Even the possible cards you listed gives most decks a hard time. You can't just list all of the owning cards in type 2 and say they only apply to one deck so you might as well not play it..... And good lord if you're that annoyed just don't post here, it's not worth it.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:08 am
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:14 am
SclickH metaljesse Let me ask you something.... How can you be proud of Tooth and Nail when it's not even your deck. It's a deck some Japanese team thought of and won a tournament with, and got posted on the internet. I mean...what pride is there in piloting a deck you haven't made? I don't care what "tech" you're running, but you're probably just using what you saw on the internet to speed up tooth. There's nothing honorable about playing a net-deck, my friend. Yeah, I've played net decks in my time. Affinity, High Tide, Trix, etc, but I never took a whole lot of pride in my playing of them. I feel best playing decks I create, and winning with those decks against b*****d net deckers makes me feel extremely good. Now, with all this bragging of your Tooth deck, have you thought about how much creature kill and a well-placed Barter in Blood ******** you up? What happens when your Urza-tron gets Sowing Salted away? What if a Mono Blue Control player sides in THEIR boseiju to mess with you even more? What happens when your Tooth is Quashed? Cranial Extractioned? How does it feel when someone goes "2nd turn, Persecute naming green" and your hand just drops into the graveyard. What about recurrant Plow Under? Eternal Witness/Plow Under/Stampeding Serow is a big combo now in green. And you know green is the most played color. Ya know..I hope you 3rd turn tooth me. That way, you have nothing in the way of my Barter in Blood, and I lose hardly any tempo. I hope you realize how unstable Tooth is, and how much people are sideboarding against you everywhere. Just because you can beat your little friends at the card shop doesn't mean you're worth s**t. So, don't give me this Net-decker's hubris b.s. Pride is taking a deck, making it your own, playtesting it a lot, and winning. You feel great when you hang out with friends at a tournament, personally I don't get a kick out of trashing someone with a rogue deck. Killz is a great rogue deck player so stop making so many assumptions. He's barely said anything about his deck and you start ranting about morals and crap. Another thing....don't post up situational cards, its just stupid. Especially when there are ways around them or nobody even uses them in the meta game. Even the possible cards you listed gives most decks a hard time. You can't just list all of the owning cards in type 2 and say they only apply to one deck so you might as well not play it..... And good lord if you're that annoyed just don't post here, it's not worth it. Cranial Extraction and Plow under are situational? Also, Sakura-Tribe Scout is your super tech? Ooooookay. I'm sorry, but I hate playing against tooth, or any other net-deck. I hate playing by the numbers of the metagame, and I think the whole situation is just un-fun. If I play at my regionals, I'm playing a deck me and my friend have been working on, Weed. I've also been working on W/G defense/control, just something janky. My mono-black beats has been working pretty good, Bad Dad, utilizing Skull Collector. I just wish more people would abandon the net-decks and play something that's just wonky and wierd. Innovate! Yeah, the first couple of tournaments, Tooth and Nail was kinda funny and cool...but then (for some wierd a** reason) it became top tier...and this is a deck that uses a 7-9 mana sorcery to win. It's ridiculous! I'm apologize for my comments, I'm sure they weren't the most couth, but you can understand my viewpoint. I've had no fun with magic since Ravager rotated and Tooth took over. With Ravager, at least you can hate it out fairly consistently, but Tooth just pulls a win out of it's a** before you can really do anything about it. Yes, I understand there will always be a top deck, but why can't more people (pro's especially) try something new and take more effort to topple that deck? about 80% of the field are going to be Tooth, G/B Cloud, and Mono U Control, possibly RDW (Ponza). 15% will be Tool (Hana Kami/Gifts Ungiven/Toolbox Arcane), White Weenie, and possibly RDW (Ponza). The Remaining 5% will be Rogue, more than likely. A new deck may pop up, and crush tooth (I'm hoping, anyway), but I have a very bad feeling that Tooth will take it all (or maybe ponza, if it's in the 80% of net-decks). Who knows.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:37 am
I agree with the lack of inovation....it sucks. I wish they would come out with more even colors. Rogue decks are so much fun to play, but it is hard for some people to pick them up. Some people can't build a deck to save their life. I don't know why so many people always go with the pro's decks, I guess it's just another stage in their magic development. Maybe it's just how they like to play the game, another step to the process.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:58 am
metaljesse SclickH metaljesse Let me ask you something.... How can you be proud of Tooth and Nail when it's not even your deck. It's a deck some Japanese team thought of and won a tournament with, and got posted on the internet. I mean...what pride is there in piloting a deck you haven't made? I don't care what "tech" you're running, but you're probably just using what you saw on the internet to speed up tooth. There's nothing honorable about playing a net-deck, my friend. Yeah, I've played net decks in my time. Affinity, High Tide, Trix, etc, but I never took a whole lot of pride in my playing of them. I feel best playing decks I create, and winning with those decks against b*****d net deckers makes me feel extremely good. Now, with all this bragging of your Tooth deck, have you thought about how much creature kill and a well-placed Barter in Blood ******** you up? What happens when your Urza-tron gets Sowing Salted away? What if a Mono Blue Control player sides in THEIR boseiju to mess with you even more? What happens when your Tooth is Quashed? Cranial Extractioned? How does it feel when someone goes "2nd turn, Persecute naming green" and your hand just drops into the graveyard. What about recurrant Plow Under? Eternal Witness/Plow Under/Stampeding Serow is a big combo now in green. And you know green is the most played color. Ya know..I hope you 3rd turn tooth me. That way, you have nothing in the way of my Barter in Blood, and I lose hardly any tempo. I hope you realize how unstable Tooth is, and how much people are sideboarding against you everywhere. Just because you can beat your little friends at the card shop doesn't mean you're worth s**t. So, don't give me this Net-decker's hubris b.s. Pride is taking a deck, making it your own, playtesting it a lot, and winning. You feel great when you hang out with friends at a tournament, personally I don't get a kick out of trashing someone with a rogue deck. Killz is a great rogue deck player so stop making so many assumptions. He's barely said anything about his deck and you start ranting about morals and crap. Another thing....don't post up situational cards, its just stupid. Especially when there are ways around them or nobody even uses them in the meta game. Even the possible cards you listed gives most decks a hard time. You can't just list all of the owning cards in type 2 and say they only apply to one deck so you might as well not play it..... And good lord if you're that annoyed just don't post here, it's not worth it. Cranial Extraction and Plow under are situational? Also, Sakura-Tribe Scout is your super tech? Ooooookay. I'm sorry, but I hate playing against tooth, or any other net-deck. I hate playing by the numbers of the metagame, and I think the whole situation is just un-fun. If I play at my regionals, I'm playing a deck me and my friend have been working on, Weed. I've also been working on W/G defense/control, just something janky. My mono-black beats has been working pretty good, Bad Dad, utilizing Skull Collector. I just wish more people would abandon the net-decks and play something that's just wonky and wierd. Innovate! Yeah, the first couple of tournaments, Tooth and Nail was kinda funny and cool...but then (for some wierd a** reason) it became top tier...and this is a deck that uses a 7-9 mana sorcery to win. It's ridiculous! I'm apologize for my comments, I'm sure they weren't the most couth, but you can understand my viewpoint. I've had no fun with magic since Ravager rotated and Tooth took over. With Ravager, at least you can hate it out fairly consistently, but Tooth just pulls a win out of it's a** before you can really do anything about it. Yes, I understand there will always be a top deck, but why can't more people (pro's especially) try something new and take more effort to topple that deck? about 80% of the field are going to be Tooth, G/B Cloud, and Mono U Control, possibly RDW (Ponza). 15% will be Tool (Hana Kami/Gifts Ungiven/Toolbox Arcane), White Weenie, and possibly RDW (Ponza). The Remaining 5% will be Rogue, more than likely. A new deck may pop up, and crush tooth (I'm hoping, anyway), but I have a very bad feeling that Tooth will take it all (or maybe ponza, if it's in the 80% of net-decks). Who knows. And yes scout is one of my techs. Also pithing needle in sideboard and lack of sundering titan. Basically the majority of the deck is my tech. I agree with ya man, rogue is the funest and thats why i combined them to make scout and nail. People seem to really be ignoring beacon green and i wouldnt if i were you...no one has voted for it on the poll and when people list top decks, its not included. I case you guys havent playtested against it...you should.
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:49 pm
Eh, beacon green is a deck metagamed against Tooth and cloud. I personally don't like the build, and how easily it can fall to a Umezawa's Jitte post-sideboard (even pre-sideboard, it's chances against decks like White Weenie are very slim...and if it's a 4th-5th turn Tooth, oy). Also, it pretty much dies to most combo decks like Kiki-Jiki, Sway of the Stars, and any black deck can easily ruin it's s**t unless they get an early Beacon off.
Beacon Green is what's setting me away from green right now, at least green beats. I heard G/B beats is some good, but you need a playset of Kokusho for that (and I ain't got that money).
I've been testing a whole lot of random decks, but every one I test has one or two main weakness's, Cranial Extraction or Pithing Needle. Pithing Needle naming Dampen Thought (whoops, there goes my Weed Deck!), or cranial extraction. My Hana Kami deck I've been working on...just pithing or Cranial.
Why, o why, did they print all the good hosers now!? When there could be so much room for innovation, they print all-purpose hosers. Kitaki, War's Wage, Pithing Needle, Cranial, etc etc etc. It's retarded.
Oh well, whatever. I'm gonna try and have fun at Regionals anyway, with or without the ability to win. razz
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:38 pm
metaljesse Eh, beacon green is a deck metagamed against Tooth and cloud. I personally don't like the build, and how easily it can fall to a Umezawa's Jitte post-sideboard (even pre-sideboard, it's chances against decks like White Weenie are very slim...and if it's a 4th-5th turn Tooth, oy). Also, it pretty much dies to most combo decks like Kiki-Jiki, Sway of the Stars, and any black deck can easily ruin it's s**t unless they get an early Beacon off. Beacon Green is what's setting me away from green right now, at least green beats. I heard G/B beats is some good, but you need a playset of Kokusho for that (and I ain't got that money). I've been testing a whole lot of random decks, but every one I test has one or two main weakness's, Cranial Extraction or Pithing Needle. Pithing Needle naming Dampen Thought (whoops, there goes my Weed Deck!), or cranial extraction. My Hana Kami deck I've been working on...just pithing or Cranial. Why, o why, did they print all the good hosers now!? When there could be so much room for innovation, they print all-purpose hosers. Kitaki, War's Wage, Pithing Needle, Cranial, etc etc etc. It's retarded. Oh well, whatever. I'm gonna try and have fun at Regionals anyway, with or without the ability to win. razz Uhh, im not trying to start an aguement again but ummm, what decklists of beacon green have you seen? It runs 4 jitte and sideboards cranial. Its not meta against anything. If anything you should work against it. The decklist im talking goes like this...i dont know the whole thing but here is some of the deck... 4 Beacon of Creation 4 Wood Elves 4 Eternal Witness 3-4? Viridian Shaman 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder 4 Birds of Paradise 4 Stampeding Serow 4 Plow Under 4 Umezawa's Jitte 2-3 ??? 2 Swamp 20 Forest SB: 4 Cranial ? Pithing Needle 7 ??? You must be seeing some bad builds cause this deck is serious. Im probably gonna play it after regionals due to the redundant-ness of tooth... Btw, Eternal Witness + Stampeding Serow + Plow Under = Game Over gonk
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:33 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:36 am
So when he sides in cranial he can fetch for one.....
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Reply
