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Hermonie Urameshi

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:43 am


PoppyDadswell
Kokoroki
Greetings - Приветствия

Здравствуйте! Hello! (at any time)
Доброе утро. Good morning. (before noon)
Добрый день. Good afternoon. (after noon)
Добрый вечер. Good evening. (after 6 pm)
Привет. Hi! (informal)
Как поживаете? How are you? (slightly formal)
Как поживаешь? How are you? (informal)
Прекрасно. А ты? Fine. And you? (informal)
Рад тебя видеть. Nice to see you. (informal, male)
Рада тебя видеть. Nice to see you. (informal, female)
Рад Вас видеть. Nice to see you. (formal, male)
Рада Вас видеть. Nice to see you. (formal, female)
Я тоже рад Вас видеть. Nice to see you too. (formal, male)
Я тоже рада Вас видеть. Nice to see you too. (formal, female)
Что нового? What's new?
Как дела? How are you doing? (rather informal)
Как у Вас дела? How are you doing? (formal)
Спасибо, хорошо. Fine, thank you.
А у Вас? And how are you doing? (formal)
Так себе. So-so.
Как обычно. As usual.
Неплохо. Not so bad.
Плохо. Bad.


how do we pronounce these though?


Yeah, I think you should add the pronounciations for a little bit. That's what we did for a little bit. That's what we did in the little bit. That's what we did in the Japanese one. After a while we can take them off...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:25 am


Hawk_McKrakken
Kokoroki
vhere?

In the main forum, the thread will be titled something along the lines of "November language of the month", etc.


So we gonna get this thing movin' or what? The Jap thread still has activity and this one's going nowhere...

Note: We might wanna sticky the current language of the month threads in good time, or else still-active language of the month threads from the past may bump it down.


Thats a good idea, there are still a few people who want me to continue the Japanese, and besides that, I still want to put more into it, just for the sake of completeness.


And I agrree with hermoine whatever (sorry, forgot how to say it) about the pronunciation.

Vajrabhairava


Hermonie Urameshi

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:05 pm


Vajrabhairava
Hawk_McKrakken
Kokoroki
vhere?

In the main forum, the thread will be titled something along the lines of "November language of the month", etc.


So we gonna get this thing movin' or what? The Jap thread still has activity and this one's going nowhere...

Note: We might wanna sticky the current language of the month threads in good time, or else still-active language of the month threads from the past may bump it down.


Thats a good idea, there are still a few people who want me to continue the Japanese, and besides that, I still want to put more into it, just for the sake of completeness.


And I agrree with hermoine whatever (sorry, forgot how to say it) about the pronunciation.


Hermonie or Herumouni. 3nodding
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:29 am


ARRIGHTY. xD

Аа = Like the "A" in "car."
Бб = Equivalent to the English letter B.
Вв = Similar to the English letter V, but your teeth remain on the inside of your lip.
Гг = Equivalent to the English letter G.
Дд = Equivalent to the English letter D.
Ее = Sounds like the "ye" in "yet."
Ёё = Sounds like the "yo" in "yonder."
Жж = Sounds like the "S" in "pleasure" or the "Z" in "azure."
Зз = Sounds like the "Z" in "zebra."
Ии = Sounds like the "I" in "machine."
Йй = Equivalent to the English consonant "Y" -- "boy," "guy." Never like the vowel "Y" in "definitely" or "myth."
Кк = Equivalent to the English letter K.
Лл = Pretty much equivalent to the English letter L.
Мм = Equivalent to the English letter M.
Нн = Equivalent to the English letter N.
Оо = It sounds fairly similar to the "aw" in the British pronunciation of "awful."
Пп = Equivalent to the English letter P.
Рр = A rolled R, heavier than the Spanish R.
Сс = Equivalent to the English letter S.
Тт = Equivalent to the English letter T.
Уу = The vowel sound you find in "foot" or "put", not as in "boot."
Фф = Sounds like the English F, except the same pronunciation rule as B applies.
Хх = A heavily aspirated H, sounds like the "ch" in the Scottish "loch."
Цц = Sounds like the "ts" in "cats".
Чч = Sounds like the "ch" in "church."
Шш = Sounds like the "sh" in "ship," for the most part.
Щщ = Similar to Ш, but a bit harder. Sounds as if it is followed by a "й" consonant sound.
Ъъ = Called the твёрдий знак, meaning "hard sign." It means that the preceding consonant is not palatised, which we will get into later.
Ыы = Sounds like the "Y" in "myth," except it's farther back in the throat. This sound really does not have an equivalent in English.
Ьь = Called the мягкий знак, meaning "soft sign." It means that the preceding consonant IS palatised, which we will still get into later.
Ээ = A similar sound to the "e" in "pet."
Юю = Sounds roughly like the English pronoun "you," except that the "u" is more like "foot" and less like "fool."
Яя = Sounds like the "ya" in "yard".

In declensions where the ending is "гo," and the word "сегодня", it is pronounced as a в -- русского sounds like руссково, and so on.

Е, Ё, И, Ю, and Я are considered the soft vowels. Before these vowels, the consonants are palatalised.
А, О, У, Ы, and Э are considered the hard vowels. Before these vowels the consonants are NOT palatalised. To change either of these, one adds either the твёрдий знак or the мягкий знак. The твёрдий знак is swiftly growing obselete, though.

The letters Д and Т change the most when palatalised. I'll try to explain:
Try pronouncing the word "cats," but cut off right before you get into the S. Make sure to pronounce the T sound as if it's still plural! You'll get a bit of an S sound anyways, and your tongue will be touching the roof of your mouth halfway in between a K and a T. Got it? Good.
This sound is replicated in English when one says, for instance, "did you eat yet?"
Both the second D and the first T are palatalised.
When palatalised, the letter Р is not rolled. The letter Л is also brought back on the tongue, just like Д and Т.
The letter Н sounds like the first N in "onion."
З and С end up being pronounced a little bit more like Ж and Ш.
П and Б take the same mouth position as the first sound in the English word "pure." Ф and В take the same mouth posision as the first consonant in the English word "few."

The letters Ж, Ш and Ц are completely hard consonants and are never palatalised. You will find many cases in which Ж and Ш are followed by the мягкий знак, but this does not affect pronunciation at all.
As you will see, the letters Я, Ю and Ё can never follow these consonants. When Е and И follow them, they must be pronounced like Э and Ы respectively. The letter Ы can never be written after these consonants, but it can be pronounced.

The letter О, when unstressed, never follows Ж, Ц, Ч, Ш or Щ. The letter Е is used instead.

The letters Й, Ч and Щ are always soft. After them, the letters Я and Ю can never be written, but А and У are always pronounced like them.

The letters Г, К and Х are only ever soft before Е and И.

The letters П, Б, Д, Т, В, Ф, З, С, Л, М, Н and Р are all hard, but can be palatalised (as explained above).

Voiced and unvoiced consonants:
The letters Б, В, Д, Г, Ж and З are considered voiced, while the letters П, Ф, Т, К, Х, Ш, Ч, Щ, С and Ц are unvoiced. See a pattern?

At the end of a word and before an unvoiced consonant, the voiced consonants become their unvoiced equivalents. Thus, "хлеб" is pronounced as "хлеп," and "ложка" as "лошка." Before a voiced consonant (except for В), an unvoiced consonant becomes its voiced equivalent if it has one.

Here are the equivalents:

Б <-> П
В <-> Ф
Д <-> Т
Ш <->Ж
З <->С
Г <-> К or Х

The other unvoiced consonants, not having voiced equivalents in the Russian language, are just left unvoiced.

Syllable stress:

The vowels can either be stressed or unstressed. Russian words have just one syllable stress the vast, vast majority of the time. The letter Ё is always stressed, which leads to the only possible exceptions to this rule.

The syllable stress is vital to the meaning, as you will soon find out if you manage to botch it. wink

The letter А, when stressed, is pronounced as I told you above. It is pronounced rather forcefully. When it is the vowel of the syllable preceding the stressed syllable, it is pronounced as the U in words such as "bud" or "cut." When it is anywhere else in the word, it is pronounced like the final vowels in the word "destination."

The same rule for А applies for О.

Unstressed Е and Я are often pronounced similarly to И; for instance, the word "язык" sounds like "изык." At the end of words, they maintain a similar pronunciation to their stressed forms, but it is less forceful.

У, Ы, Э and Ю are pronounced the same as they would be if they were stressed, but it's less forceful.

Note that the pronunciation rules that I talked about before still apply to syllable stress; when Е after certain consonants is not stressed, it is still pronounced as Э and not as И.

When giving you vocabulary, I will make sure to turn the stressed vowel red, to make it more clear.

Russian is not a perfectly phonetic language. The greeting "здравствуйте," for instance, is pronounced more like "здраствиче." The word "пожалуйста" is pronounced more like "пожальста." You'll get used to this eventually. xd

NOW, we've covered the basics of pronunciation. Here are some words to practice on:

Водка -- vodka
Журнал -- journal, magazine
Идиот -- idiot
Елемент -- element
Опера -- opera
Драма -- drama

Also, take a shot at Kokoroki's list. xD

Eccentric Iconoclast
Vice Captain


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:59 am


Thank you! heart Thats the kind of stuff I was looking for. You seem to know what you are talking about.

About the stress, do you have any links where I could hear it? I understand stressing a syllable, but I know nothing about russian, and I don't want to assume and unknowingly practice sounding wierd and wrong.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:48 am


Vajrabhairava
Thank you! heart Thats the kind of stuff I was looking for. You seem to know what you are talking about.

About the stress, do you have any links where I could hear it? I understand stressing a syllable, but I know nothing about russian, and I don't want to assume and unknowingly practice sounding wierd and wrong.

http://home.unilang.org/resources/pronscript/sonidos/sonidos.php?lng=ru
ninja

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Nucleotide

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:31 am


I love Russian but I know absolutely nothing xd

Some day, I will learn.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:45 pm


Nucleotide
I love Russian but I know absolutely nothing xd

Some day, I will learn.

Why not now? xD

Eccentric Iconoclast
Vice Captain


Forgedawn

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:17 pm


I'm gonna gank some info from this to put in the Russian Lessons biggrin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:29 pm


Forgedawn
I'm gonna gank some info from this to put in the Russian Lessons biggrin

The info is there to be ganked! mrgreen

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Hawk_McKrakken

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:11 pm


Perhaps now you can teach us about noun gender, verb conjugation, and how the two influence eachother, teacher? wink
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:51 pm


Yeah, good idea! Give me more!

Vajrabhairava


419scambaiterKoko

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:16 am


Eccentric Iconoclast
ARRIGHTY. xD

Аа = Like the "A" in "car."
Бб = Equivalent to the English letter B.
Вв = Similar to the English letter V, but your teeth remain on the inside of your lip.
Гг = Equivalent to the English letter G.
Дд = Equivalent to the English letter D.
Ее = Sounds like the "ye" in "yet."
Ёё = Sounds like the "yo" in "yonder."
Жж = Sounds like the "S" in "pleasure" or the "Z" in "azure."
Зз = Sounds like the "Z" in "zebra."
Ии = Sounds like the "I" in "machine."
Йй = Equivalent to the English consonant "Y" -- "boy," "guy." Never like the vowel "Y" in "definitely" or "myth."
Кк = Equivalent to the English letter K.
Лл = Pretty much equivalent to the English letter L.
Мм = Equivalent to the English letter M.
Нн = Equivalent to the English letter N.
Оо = It sounds fairly similar to the "aw" in the British pronunciation of "awful."
Пп = Equivalent to the English letter P.
Рр = A rolled R, heavier than the Spanish R.
Сс = Equivalent to the English letter S.
Тт = Equivalent to the English letter T.
Уу = The vowel sound you find in "foot" or "put", not as in "boot."
Фф = Sounds like the English F, except the same pronunciation rule as B applies.
Хх = A heavily aspirated H, sounds like the "ch" in the Scottish "loch."
Цц = Sounds like the "ts" in "cats".
Чч = Sounds like the "ch" in "church."
Шш = Sounds like the "sh" in "ship," for the most part.
Щщ = Similar to Ш, but a bit harder. Sounds as if it is followed by a "й" consonant sound.
Ъъ = Called the твёрдий знак, meaning "hard sign." It means that the preceding consonant is not palatised, which we will get into later.
Ыы = Sounds like the "Y" in "myth," except it's farther back in the throat. This sound really does not have an equivalent in English.
Ьь = Called the мягкий знак, meaning "soft sign." It means that the preceding consonant IS palatised, which we will still get into later.
Ээ = A similar sound to the "e" in "pet."
Юю = Sounds roughly like the English pronoun "you," except that the "u" is more like "foot" and less like "fool."
Яя = Sounds like the "ya" in "yard".

In declensions where the ending is "гo," and the word "сегодня", it is pronounced as a в -- русского sounds like руссково, and so on.

Е, Ё, И, Ю, and Я are considered the soft vowels. Before these vowels, the consonants are palatalised.
А, О, У, Ы, and Э are considered the hard vowels. Before these vowels the consonants are NOT palatalised. To change either of these, one adds either the твёрдий знак or the мягкий знак. The твёрдий знак is swiftly growing obselete, though.

The letters Д and Т change the most when palatalised. I'll try to explain:
Try pronouncing the word "cats," but cut off right before you get into the S. Make sure to pronounce the T sound as if it's still plural! You'll get a bit of an S sound anyways, and your tongue will be touching the roof of your mouth halfway in between a K and a T. Got it? Good.
This sound is replicated in English when one says, for instance, "did you eat yet?"
Both the second D and the first T are palatalised.
When palatalised, the letter Р is not rolled. The letter Л is also brought back on the tongue, just like Д and Т.
The letter Н sounds like the first N in "onion."
З and С end up being pronounced a little bit more like Ж and Ш.
П and Б take the same mouth position as the first sound in the English word "pure." Ф and В take the same mouth posision as the first consonant in the English word "few."

The letters Ж, Ш and Ц are completely hard consonants and are never palatalised. You will find many cases in which Ж and Ш are followed by the мягкий знак, but this does not affect pronunciation at all.
As you will see, the letters Я, Ю and Ё can never follow these consonants. When Е and И follow them, they must be pronounced like Э and Ы respectively. The letter Ы can never be written after these consonants, but it can be pronounced.

The letter О, when unstressed, never follows Ж, Ц, Ч, Ш or Щ. The letter Е is used instead.

The letters Й, Ч and Щ are always soft. After them, the letters Я and Ю can never be written, but А and У are always pronounced like them.

The letters Г, К and Х are only ever soft before Е and И.

The letters П, Б, Д, Т, В, Ф, З, С, Л, М, Н and Р are all hard, but can be palatalised (as explained above).

Voiced and unvoiced consonants:
The letters Б, В, Д, Г, Ж and З are considered voiced, while the letters П, Ф, Т, К, Х, Ш, Ч, Щ, С and Ц are unvoiced. See a pattern?

At the end of a word and before an unvoiced consonant, the voiced consonants become their unvoiced equivalents. Thus, "хлеб" is pronounced as "хлеп," and "ложка" as "лошка." Before a voiced consonant (except for В), an unvoiced consonant becomes its voiced equivalent if it has one.

Here are the equivalents:

Б <-> П
В <-> Ф
Д <-> Т
Ш <->Ж
З <->С
Г <-> К or Х

The other unvoiced consonants, not having voiced equivalents in the Russian language, are just left unvoiced.

Syllable stress:

The vowels can either be stressed or unstressed. Russian words have just one syllable stress the vast, vast majority of the time. The letter Ё is always stressed, which leads to the only possible exceptions to this rule.

The syllable stress is vital to the meaning, as you will soon find out if you manage to botch it. wink

The letter А, when stressed, is pronounced as I told you above. It is pronounced rather forcefully. When it is the vowel of the syllable preceding the stressed syllable, it is pronounced as the U in words such as "bud" or "cut." When it is anywhere else in the word, it is pronounced like the final vowels in the word "destination."

The same rule for А applies for О.

Unstressed Е and Я are often pronounced similarly to И; for instance, the word "язык" sounds like "изык." At the end of words, they maintain a similar pronunciation to their stressed forms, but it is less forceful.

У, Ы, Э and Ю are pronounced the same as they would be if they were stressed, but it's less forceful.

Note that the pronunciation rules that I talked about before still apply to syllable stress; when Е after certain consonants is not stressed, it is still pronounced as Э and not as И.

When giving you vocabulary, I will make sure to turn the stressed vowel red, to make it more clear.

Russian is not a perfectly phonetic language. The greeting "здравствуйте," for instance, is pronounced more like "здраствиче." The word "пожалуйста" is pronounced more like "пожальста." You'll get used to this eventually. xd

NOW, we've covered the basics of pronunciation. Here are some words to practice on:

Водка -- vodka
Журнал -- journal, magazine
Идиот -- idiot
Елемент -- element
Опера -- opera
Драма -- drama

Also, take a shot at Kokoroki's list. xD


Спасибо Большой, for taking over Rebecca (i'm still a beginner at it and I had orignally wanted to teach something else so it through me off)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:01 am


Hawk_McKrakken
Perhaps now you can teach us about noun gender, verb conjugation, and how the two influence eachother, teacher? wink

I'm working on a noun gender lesson right now. sweatdrop

Eccentric Iconoclast
Vice Captain


Eccentric Iconoclast
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:24 am


The Russian language has no articles. "A" and "the" are understood by context; they are not spoken. The noun "дом" can mean "house," "a house," "the house," depending on the context. This simplifies things; one of the very few things in this wonderfully insane language that does. xd

In Russian, the "to be" verb -- the verb corresponding to the English "is," "are," "am," etcetera, is not used in the present tense. Instead of saying "I am a student," one just says "я студент(ка)" -- translated directly as "I student" (the addition of -ка depends on your gender. If you're a guy, you don't say -ка when talking about yourself).

To say "Here is a ___", one just says "вот." To say "Here is a knife," you say "вот нож." Вот also works as "here are."

A similar thing is saying "здесь" or "тут" by the noun. It means "here" in the aspect of "in this place" -- one could translate "тут дом" or "дом здесь" as "the house is here." The word "там" works exactly like "тут," but it means "there" instead of "here."

When saying, for instance, "this is a nose," one would say "это нос" -- "нос" meaning "nose." The word "это" is a demonstrative adjective in the neuter form, and is often used for introducing new objects. When you use it with a neuter noun, like saying "это ружьё" ("this is a rifle"), it can also mean "this rifle." The other two grammatical genders have other words (этот for the masculine and эта for the feminine) to mean the same thing. Please note that all of these can mean "that" as well -- similar to the French "ce."

And that brings us into noun genders. blaugh

There are three noun genders -- masculine, feminine and neuter -- and these are declined -- they change -- by the endings. In the nouns, whether the final consonant is hard or soft matters. So does whether the noun is alive or not -- its animacy. I will give you the declension tables later, but here are some rules:

Masculine nouns usually end in consonants or the мягкий знак (there are some exceptions to these, but they will be remarked upon when we get to them).

Feminine nouns can end in the letter "а," the letter "я" or the мягкий знак. Again, some exceptions exist, but they are rare.

Neuter nouns end in the letters "о," "е" or "я."

Noun genders mostly affect the adjectives modifying them and the past tense of verbs, both of which we will get into later.

Here are some examples to get you started on:

MASCULINE:
автобус -- bus
брат -- brother
стол -- table
карандаш -- pencil
чай -- tea
пляж -- beach
гений -- genius
словарь -- dictionary
полемёт -- machine gun
бобр -- beaver

FEMININE:
книга -- book
газета -- newspaper
песня -- song
мужественность -- masculinity
выдра -- otter
лингвистика -- linguistics
история -- history
идея -- idea
жизнь -- life

NEUTER:
слово -- word
молоко -- milk
болото -- swamp
солнце -- sun
училище -- school/college
здание -- building
ружьё -- rifle
сиденье -- seat
море -- sea
время -- time, tense

I know, it's a motley list of words. xD I tried to get in an example from each type of declension, plus I threw in some of my favorite words.
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