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 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:13 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:10 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:19 pm
Mer. I'm not arguing with you guys or even using those as pro-choice arguments. I'm telling you what to LOOK OUT FOR. I'm trying to be nice here. =P
I know that alot of pro-choicers use these arguments, I would like both sides to be informed. Much in the same way I'd like all this misinformation that the pro-life side throws around about the process of abortion (the different types) to be ended. It's all rather annoying.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:01 am
DarkFire168 Mer. I'm not arguing with you guys or even using those as pro-choice arguments. I'm telling you what to LOOK OUT FOR. I'm trying to be nice here. =P I know that alot of pro-choicers use these arguments, I would like both sides to be informed. Much in the same way I'd like all this misinformation that the pro-life side throws around about the process of abortion (the different types) to be ended. It's all rather annoying. What misinformation?
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:01 pm
I am aware you're trying to help, but they're points we've come up against multiple times. A lot of people in here were either undecided or prochoice at one point. If it wasn't for Planned Parenthood, I'd most likely be able to ignore enough to be comfortable being prochoice.
Please don't get defensive, because we're not rejecting you or your help. We're just pointing out the reasons why we don't agree with you on certain things.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:29 pm
Oh, I see. Well, I only got defensive because I thought you guys were getting angry and shtuff 3nodding Sorry 'bout that. Anyway, to the other guy: Like the actual ways abortions are performed, the regulations on abortions, and the mortality rates of abortions and natural birth. These are all skewed (or out right lied about) in order to make abortion seem evil and push the pro-life agenda forward. I'm not saying alot of people are saying it, but enough are that alot of pro-lifers are getting the info, believing it, and making it the basis of their arguments. Like I said, I'm pro-intelligent debate ^_^
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:14 am
DarkFire168 Oh, I see. Well, I only got defensive because I thought you guys were getting angry and shtuff 3nodding Sorry 'bout that. Anyway, to the other guy: Like the actual ways abortions are performed, the regulations on abortions, and the mortality rates of abortions and natural birth. These are all skewed (or out right lied about) in order to make abortion seem evil and push the pro-life agenda forward. I'm not saying alot of people are saying it, but enough are that alot of pro-lifers are getting the info, believing it, and making it the basis of their arguments. Like I said, I'm pro-intelligent debate ^_^ With the kinds of abortions, I believe Pyro set up a thread with the different types of abortion described. As for the mortality rates, both sides skew them. The Pro-Choice side skews them in such a way as to make -natural birth- seem evil, and extremely dangerous. If you look at a dozen web sites, you'll get a dozen sets of numbers. Regulations on abortions would be a good idea to look up and put here, though. 3nodding Like when it's legal to have an abortion.
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:36 am
I'm still waiting on Kp's approval for a bunch of those things. like, the times, methods, etc.
As for number skewing, you need to take numbers from both sides and try to find a middle ground. Some reports say that thousands of women died due to illegal abortions in the 60's, and then later they admitted those numbers came from 1930 when penicillin hadn't been in use and more people died from surgical procedures period, legal or illegal. Some reports say five women died due to illegal abortion before RvW, which is hard to swallow since more then five women a day die to illegal abortion now, at least I think it's more than five. I can't remember the exact number on it, but it's pretty sad.
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:36 pm
lymelady I'm still waiting on Kp's approval for a bunch of those things. like, the times, methods, etc. As for number skewing, you need to take numbers from both sides and try to find a middle ground. Some reports say that thousands of women died due to illegal abortions in the 60's, and then later they admitted those numbers came from 1930 when penicillin hadn't been in use and more people died from surgical procedures period, legal or illegal. Some reports say five women died due to illegal abortion before RvW, which is hard to swallow since more then five women a day die to illegal abortion now, at least I think it's more than five. I can't remember the exact number on it, but it's pretty sad. I know both sides skew things, that's why I generally take my info from the US' Bureau of Statistics. They don't agree completely with what the pro-choice side says, but they are significantly closer in numbers to them then they are to the pro-life side.
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:09 pm
lymelady I am aware you're trying to help, but they're points we've come up against multiple times. A lot of people in here were either undecided or prochoice at one point. If it wasn't for Planned Parenthood, I'd most likely be able to ignore enough to be comfortable being prochoice. Please don't get defensive, because we're not rejecting you or your help. We're just pointing out the reasons why we don't agree with you on certain things.
Maybe if he actually knew the definitions of some of the words he was using I'd be more inclined to believe him.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:29 am
Homicide is not the killing of a person it is the killing of a HUMAN. Personhood is defined by law, not science. Being a human is defined by science. So regardless if "it" is a "person" or not "it" is a human, therefore abortion is still homicide.
And pregnancy is not torture- I've done it 4 times. What IS torture, by your definition, is having lost one of those babies at 7 weeks and being told by society that my pain and suffering (physical, mental AND involuntarily) and greiving was ridiculous because "it" wasn't even a person.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:02 am
misangelitas Homicide is not the killing of a person it is the killing of a HUMAN. Personhood is defined by law, not science. Being a human is defined by science. So regardless if "it" is a "person" or not "it" is a human, therefore abortion is still homicide. And pregnancy is not torture- I've done it 4 times. What IS torture, by your definition, is having lost one of those babies at 7 weeks and being told by society that my pain and suffering (physical, mental AND involuntarily) and greiving was ridiculous because "it" wasn't even a person.
Our Children Matter
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:08 pm
Hmmm...I find it interesting...actualy, no...make that expected. Dark tried to pace himself off as some one intelligent while here. And now, in debate, he's proven himself to be nothing more then a childish homophobe who can't seem to have a single conversation with out insurting atleast one insult
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:56 pm
pimpchimp525 mind im only 14 so i may be wrong, but all a woman has to do to not have a child is keep her legs closed. its that simple, dont have sex if you you dont want kids. also, if a man was to decide that he didnt want a kid so he wouldnt pay child support he would be in trouble, so why is a woman able to get an un-born child killed (which, in my book, is a lot worse) and its perfectly legal? so, dark, could you please explain that to me? Dude: a) "Keep your legs closed" is one of the worst arguments you can use. No offense, but it's true; There is no way to support that in debate. Abstinance -is- the best way to not become pregnant, but telling people that, if they don't want to become pregnant, don't have sex, doesn't stand up, because even Pro-Lifers have sex for pleasure. b) Please stay on topic; This thread is not meant for debate. c) Darkfire isn't in the guild anymore, so he's not going to be responding to this, except possibly in PM. And I'm pretty sure he only lurks the really interesting threads these days. sweatdrop
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