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0 x 0 =
  Infinity
  0
  undefined/undetermined
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AvenirLegacy
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Gaian

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:41 pm


grasscutter
beaufleur
eek Wow ... from mathematical problem solving to vomit/diarhea in 60 seconds ....

xd


Huh kind of shows you how sometimes a train of logic doesn't always work out....so math can be boiled down to diarrhea I guess... xd


The Logic train works 2 ways. Either its the basis of some of the most inspiring work. Or the ravings of a madman with diarhea. Since such madman/woman would think that Diarhea > Vomit.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:06 pm


AvenirLegacy
Its logical that 0 goes into 1 an infinite number of times.

How so? It seems more logical to me, although I do not pretend to be a mathematician, that the number of zeroes going into a one is undefined, not infinite - I mean, the sum of an infinite number of zeroes is still zero. The question is not valid - zero cannot go into anything.

I hope there's a mathematician around to fix my understanding, since I'm sure it's either wholly inaccurate or incomplete.

maybecca


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:06 pm


0 x 0 = 0 <_<
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:26 pm


HA. I love this. Instead of doing my own math work, I'm contemplating on the equation of 0x0=Infinity.
I don't know what to say. I can could blab about the statement being true, in my own logic. Which could be amusing, but not true.

0x0=0

It's simple elementary math. Any thing times 0 is 0. We all learn it when ever we learn multiplication(I'm horrible because I can't even remember which grade is exactly was. sweatdrop ).
But, what gets me is 0/0 = What? Because any number divided by 0 is undefined.
It could easily be answered by nothing is divided by nothing which results in you still have nothing. Hmmm.... I guess this is a more philosophical question than a math one.

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Lieutenant_Charon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:05 pm


Even the concept of 0 is interesting, because early humans (and on the same note, most animals) don't have such a concept. For the idea of 0 to exist you must recognize that tehre are things you do not have and therefore want. Early humans only knew what they had, they had no idea what they didn't have. As our mind developed so to our, what we consdier, baser instincts. Jealously, greed, avarice, etc., are all considered to be qualities of a "lower" class of people, when in fact they are more advanced than the various pack instincts that we see now as common civic virtue.

Food for thought, I suppose.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:12 pm


So I did some research on the number 0. Here's what I dug up.

""0 (zero) is both a number — or, more precisely, a numeral representing a number — and a numerical digit. Zero is the last digit to be incorporated in most numeral systems. In the English language, zero may also be called nil when a number, o/oh when a numeral, and nought/naught in either context.""



"" * Multiplication: x · 0 = 0 · x = 0.
* Division: 0 / x = 0, for nonzero x. But x / 0 is undefined, because 0 has no multiplicative inverse, a consequence of the previous rule. For positive x, as y in x / y approaches zero from positive values, its quotient increases toward positive infinity, but as y approaches zero from negative values, the quotient increases toward negative infinity. The different quotients confirms that division by zero is undefined.
* Exponentiation: x0 = 1, except that the case x = 0 may be left undefined in some contexts. For all positive real x, 0x = 0.

The expression "0/0" is an "indeterminate form". That does not simply mean that it is undefined; rather, it means that if f(x) and g(x) both approach 0 as x approaches some number, then f(x)/g(x) could approach any finite number or ∞ or −∞; it depends on which functions f and g are. See L'Hopital's rule.""

I find this last part very interesting, as it suggests that 0/0 is indeed some sort of value. The problem is is that this value has to real definition, but it must exists as according to L'Hopital's rule [which I checked out] The derivative of such a equation must exists in calculus.

""In simple cases, L'Hôpital's rule states that for functions f(x) and g(x):
if User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. or User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
then User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
where the prime (') denotes the derivative.

Among other requirements, for this rule to hold, the limit User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
must exist ""

Getting past the sheer meaning of the calculus, I came to understand that for the derivative of this interger to exist, there must be a value for 0/0. Since the integer can come to be any finite number [as stated in the law], or either of the two infinities.

Cite/Sources

The number 0.
L'Hopital's rule.

EDIT: To link this to the OP's post, the sources I mentioned provide no arguement as to why 0x0 would not = 0. It seems its just a mathematical law.

AvenirLegacy
Crew

Gaian


Darken_mortal

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:18 pm


No, zero isn't equil to infinity.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:55 pm


AvenirLegacy
So I did some research on the number 0. Here's what I dug up.

""0 (zero) is both a number — or, more precisely, a numeral representing a number — and a numerical digit. Zero is the last digit to be incorporated in most numeral systems. In the English language, zero may also be called nil when a number, o/oh when a numeral, and nought/naught in either context.""



"" * Multiplication: x · 0 = 0 · x = 0.
* Division: 0 / x = 0, for nonzero x. But x / 0 is undefined, because 0 has no multiplicative inverse, a consequence of the previous rule. For positive x, as y in x / y approaches zero from positive values, its quotient increases toward positive infinity, but as y approaches zero from negative values, the quotient increases toward negative infinity. The different quotients confirms that division by zero is undefined.
* Exponentiation: x0 = 1, except that the case x = 0 may be left undefined in some contexts. For all positive real x, 0x = 0.

The expression "0/0" is an "indeterminate form". That does not simply mean that it is undefined; rather, it means that if f(x) and g(x) both approach 0 as x approaches some number, then f(x)/g(x) could approach any finite number or ∞ or −∞; it depends on which functions f and g are. See L'Hopital's rule.""

I find this last part very interesting, as it suggests that 0/0 is indeed some sort of value. The problem is is that this value has to real definition, but it must exists as according to L'Hopital's rule [which I checked out] The derivative of such a equation must exists in calculus.

""In simple cases, L'Hôpital's rule states that for functions f(x) and g(x):
if User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. or User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
then User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
where the prime (') denotes the derivative.

Among other requirements, for this rule to hold, the limit User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
must exist ""

Getting past the sheer meaning of the calculus, I came to understand that for the derivative of this interger to exist, there must be a value for 0/0. Since the integer can come to be any finite number [as stated in the law], or either of the two infinities.

Cite/Sources

The number 0.
L'Hopital's rule.

EDIT: To link this to the OP's post, the sources I mentioned provide no arguement as to why 0x0 would not = 0. It seems its just a mathematical law.


My head espolode.

Lieutenant_Charon


AvenirLegacy
Crew

Gaian

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:03 pm


Darken_mortal
No, zero isn't equil to infinity.


Well 0 is a numerical digit like Infinity. But thats about it. xp
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:05 pm


Lieutenant_Charon
AvenirLegacy
So I did some research on the number 0. Here's what I dug up.

""0 (zero) is both a number — or, more precisely, a numeral representing a number — and a numerical digit. Zero is the last digit to be incorporated in most numeral systems. In the English language, zero may also be called nil when a number, o/oh when a numeral, and nought/naught in either context.""



"" * Multiplication: x · 0 = 0 · x = 0.
* Division: 0 / x = 0, for nonzero x. But x / 0 is undefined, because 0 has no multiplicative inverse, a consequence of the previous rule. For positive x, as y in x / y approaches zero from positive values, its quotient increases toward positive infinity, but as y approaches zero from negative values, the quotient increases toward negative infinity. The different quotients confirms that division by zero is undefined.
* Exponentiation: x0 = 1, except that the case x = 0 may be left undefined in some contexts. For all positive real x, 0x = 0.

The expression "0/0" is an "indeterminate form". That does not simply mean that it is undefined; rather, it means that if f(x) and g(x) both approach 0 as x approaches some number, then f(x)/g(x) could approach any finite number or ∞ or −∞; it depends on which functions f and g are. See L'Hopital's rule.""

I find this last part very interesting, as it suggests that 0/0 is indeed some sort of value. The problem is is that this value has to real definition, but it must exists as according to L'Hopital's rule [which I checked out] The derivative of such a equation must exists in calculus.

""In simple cases, L'Hôpital's rule states that for functions f(x) and g(x):
if User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. or User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
then User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
where the prime (') denotes the derivative.

Among other requirements, for this rule to hold, the limit User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
must exist ""

Getting past the sheer meaning of the calculus, I came to understand that for the derivative of this interger to exist, there must be a value for 0/0. Since the integer can come to be any finite number [as stated in the law], or either of the two infinities.

Cite/Sources

The number 0.
L'Hopital's rule.

EDIT: To link this to the OP's post, the sources I mentioned provide no arguement as to why 0x0 would not = 0. It seems its just a mathematical law.


My head espolode.


All it is sayins is that since the Derivative of 0/0 exists, then 0/0 must have a value. [ L'Hopital's Law ].

AvenirLegacy
Crew

Gaian


Lieutenant_Charon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:15 pm


Ah, math, my sworn foe. I suppose that it's mostly my fault i'm bad at it anyway, but whatever.

I'll stick to history, politics, and english, thanks.

On the other hand, i'd have to disagree on the basis of common sense. If you have nothing, divide it into no parts, it shouldn't equal anything.

So 0/0 = 0.

Not "undefined" or "infinity."
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:32 pm


Lieutenant_Charon
So 0/0 = 0.

Not "undefined" or "infinity."

Unfortunately, mathematics is a system of logic and only needs to be follow from the axioms and be deductively valid.

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AvenirLegacy
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Gaian

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:35 pm


A Lost Iguana
Lieutenant_Charon
So 0/0 = 0.

Not "undefined" or "infinity."

Unfortunately, mathematics is a system of logic and only needs to be follow from the axioms and be deductively valid.


It's 1/0 that makes your head explode, yet 0/0 makes perfect mathematical and logical sense. pirate sweatdrop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:38 am


AvenirLegacy
A Lost Iguana
Lieutenant_Charon
So 0/0 = 0.

Not "undefined" or "infinity."

Unfortunately, mathematics is a system of logic and only needs to be follow from the axioms and be deductively valid.


It's 1/0 that makes your head explode, yet 0/0 makes perfect mathematical and logical sense. pirate sweatdrop


The formula's made my head explode, logic is something I believe I have a good grasp of.

Actually, 1/0 is a bit more complicated, because it's having something, and dividing it into no parts. But that would also (technically, and I suppose logically) remove the part that contained the something, so I suppose you'd be left with 0 there as well. On the other hand, where did your something go?

Same follows with any number over 0, except of course 0, since logic should be able to solve that.

Lieutenant_Charon


twilightwyrm

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:03 pm


I would think the problem with the 1/0 problem is that while 0 could arguable go into 1 infinity number of times, like it was said, the process cannot be reversed. 0 x infinity = infinity, not 1 and therefore the problm does not work. Oh and 0^0 is the only exceptiont the the exponet rule. 0^0 is the only number when raised to the 0 power, is 0.
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