Teen sex with 18+ people and abortion? Discuss.

[PersephoneMediocris]

[gossamer]!smile.

PersephoneMediocris

[gossamer]!smile.

PersephoneMediocris

Forced pregnancy violates a young girls bodily domain and can cause her harm and pain. Not being able to screw a 50 year old pervert won't hurt her one bit. In fact it'll help her because that way she might be less likely to get an STD a more experianced guy might have.

What makes him a pervert?


Okay, new scenario.
The chick's preggors and wants to keep the baby.
Her parents want to force her into an abortion.
Hell, it won't cause her harm and it'll even help her!
Is this okay? Hell no, because it's not the teen's choice.

Same with sex. Durka durka durka.

He's a pervert because he wants to have sex with a child. Maybe ***** is a better word. And her wanting to give birth is different. It's going on in her body and it effects the fetus as well as herself. She can use to give fetus life but ******** a ***** is only helping his perverted desires.

All I see from you is "perverted old man" and "******** *****", so chances are that you're entirely too biased to even continue debating with. If you can even call this debating. It's more like you're saying your personal opinion (***** is perverted and sick and wrong) and so it therefore should be outlawed.

Prove to me than a fifteen year old girl is any less capable to give consent to sex with a twenty year old male than an eighteen year old female. You really can't, seeing as how everyone developes differently. It takes a special person to be smart enough to actually think that far ahead and figure it out.

You're fourteen? So am I. Maybe if you gave it thought, then you'd understand. Instead you go off of what you've been told, and you've been taught by obviously biased persons.

"***** harms people" is a bullshit excuse, seeing as drinking, abortion, child birth and smokeing (as well as millions of other things) can harm you mentally, physically and socailly. Saying the person can't consent is also bullshit, because there's no proof that not all teens can't give consent.

Also, prove to me that a teen can make a better choice with abortion than they can with sex. That really ******** pisses me off. It makes no sense. "Uh...she's too stupid to allow a man to stick his peen0r in her vagoo, but she's smart enough to lie to her parent's about spending the night at Sally-Sue's house and go out to get a fetus sucked out of her womb". It's not even remotely ******** logical.

But the fetus is inading her bodily domain. If you can prove that by not having sex with an older man her body is being invaded against her will, than I'll agree with you. And personally, I find people who have sexual feelings for children sick. Just curious, do you think it should be legal for a man to have sex with a three year old if he could get her to agree to it? And no, there often isn't much of a difference between a 15 year old and an 18 year old. But because people are so varied on the rates they mature we have to go on average. On average 18 is the age when you can make decisions for yourself and use your judgement best. And in most states the age of consent is 16 anyway. At 16 you can sleep with whoever you want. Any age younger that that they have to be under 18 (or less than about 8 years older than you because of Romeo and Juliet laws).  

[[gossamer]!smile.]

PersephoneMediocris

[gossamer]!smile.

PersephoneMediocris

[gossamer]!smile.

PersephoneMediocris

Forced pregnancy violates a young girls bodily domain and can cause her harm and pain. Not being able to screw a 50 year old pervert won't hurt her one bit. In fact it'll help her because that way she might be less likely to get an STD a more experianced guy might have.

What makes him a pervert?


Okay, new scenario.
The chick's preggors and wants to keep the baby.
Her parents want to force her into an abortion.
Hell, it won't cause her harm and it'll even help her!
Is this okay? Hell no, because it's not the teen's choice.

Same with sex. Durka durka durka.

He's a pervert because he wants to have sex with a child. Maybe ***** is a better word. And her wanting to give birth is different. It's going on in her body and it effects the fetus as well as herself. She can use to give fetus life but ******** a ***** is only helping his perverted desires.

All I see from you is "perverted old man" and "******** *****", so chances are that you're entirely too biased to even continue debating with. If you can even call this debating. It's more like you're saying your personal opinion (***** is perverted and sick and wrong) and so it therefore should be outlawed.

Prove to me than a fifteen year old girl is any less capable to give consent to sex with a twenty year old male than an eighteen year old female. You really can't, seeing as how everyone developes differently. It takes a special person to be smart enough to actually think that far ahead and figure it out.

You're fourteen? So am I. Maybe if you gave it thought, then you'd understand. Instead you go off of what you've been told, and you've been taught by obviously biased persons.

"***** harms people" is a bullshit excuse, seeing as drinking, abortion, child birth and smokeing (as well as millions of other things) can harm you mentally, physically and socailly. Saying the person can't consent is also bullshit, because there's no proof that not all teens can't give consent.

Also, prove to me that a teen can make a better choice with abortion than they can with sex. That really ******** pisses me off. It makes no sense. "Uh...she's too stupid to allow a man to stick his peen0r in her vagoo, but she's smart enough to lie to her parent's about spending the night at Sally-Sue's house and go out to get a fetus sucked out of her womb". It's not even remotely ******** logical.

But the fetus is inading her bodily domain. If you can prove that by not having sex with an older man her body is being invaded against her will, than I'll agree with you. And personally, I find people who have sexual feelings for children sick. Just curious, do you think it should be legal for a man to have sex with a three year old if he could get her to agree to it? And no, there often isn't much of a difference between a 15 year old and an 18 year old. But because people are so varied on the rates they mature we have to go on average. On average 18 is the age when you can make decisions for yourself and use your judgement best. And in most states the age of consent is 16 anyway. At 16 you can sleep with whoever you want. Any age younger that that they have to be under 18 (or less than about 8 years older than you because of Romeo and Juliet laws).

Let's take this to another scenario. For one reason or another, sex PERIOD is banned. For you, me, 18 year olds, fifty year olds, everyone. Would you not consider that a horrible ristriction of what you do with your body? It's a yes for me. And I feel that way now. I can't have sex because I was born a little too late. If I had the choice, I'd be about twenty right now. I should not be lumped in with the other 14 year olds.

But don't get me wrong at all. It's not just me. My ex-girlfriend who is also 14 feels the exact same way. She feels that there are plenty of mentally consious 14 year olds that could really make the choice to have sex with who ever they want to, no matter what age. I think the age should be lowered to 13.

Define "children", please. Because I am no child.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.
My 19 year old cousin got drunk and dove into the shallow end of the pool.
He was lucky he didn't snap his spine- but only his collar bone and arm.
Should someone that stupid be allowed to have sex?
I'm smarter than he is. I make better choices than he does.
Why is he given more privlages than me? Because he's older?
That's a bullshit reason.  

[Electric Kool-Aid]

Um...to me...13 sounds a bit young and I'm now trying to think back to how I felt when I was 13...let's see 7th grade...yeah-personally definatly wouldn't be ready...I don't know I think people need to understand what the benefits of sex are (pleasure...) and what the crappy things are (for instance it REALLLY hurts your first time...at least for girls usually...so eek ) But think about it...you're 14 right? so why worry about it now...4 years isn't that much...and you've got the rest of your life to have to worry about that as well...I say enjoy time now without it...but whatever...like i said earlier-mental maturity and i do think that there are somethings that are JUST PLAIN WRONG- example 40 year old with a 14 year old...stuff like that...There's no reason that the 40year old couldn't wait the 4 years til it'd be legal...>.<  

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

[gossamer!smile.

Define "children", please. Because I am no child.

You are a child even if you don't want to think of it that way. I'm also a child. We're both under eighteen.

[gossamer!smile.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

[gossamer!smile.

My 19 year old cousin got drunk and dove into the shallow end of the pool.
He was lucky he didn't snap his spine- but only his collar bone and arm.
Should someone that stupid be allowed to have sex?
I'm smarter than he is. I make better choices than he does.
Why is he given more privlages than me? Because he's older?
That's a bullshit reason.

No. It's a very good reason.

No one ever said that all fourteen year olds are not mentally mature because some are and I know quite a few who are.

It's just that, most aren't.

And not all adults are mature either. Generally, most will be.  

[[gossamer]!smile.]

Quote:

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Define "children", please. Because I am no child.

You are a child even if you don't want to think of it that way. I'm also a child. We're both under eighteen.

No. I'm a teenager.
Teenager > child.

Quote:

[gossamer!smile.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

Proof?

Quote:

[gossamer!smile.

My 19 year old cousin got drunk and dove into the shallow end of the pool.
He was lucky he didn't snap his spine- but only his collar bone and arm.
Should someone that stupid be allowed to have sex?
I'm smarter than he is. I make better choices than he does.
Why is he given more privlages than me? Because he's older?
That's a bullshit reason.

No. It's a very good reason.

I disagree. Strongly.

Quote:

No one ever said that all fourteen year olds are not mentally mature because some are and I know quite a few who are.

Whoever made it so that 14 year olds can't choose to do what they want to with their own bodies obviously thought we were too stupid to know what to do, and decided they'd "protect" us. rolleyes

Quote:

It's just that, most aren't.

Proof?

And what makes someone ready for sex?
I say as long as they know how to use protection,
know about abortion and pregnancy, then they are ready.

Quote:

And not all adults are mature either. Generally, most will be.

Proof?

 

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

[gossamer!smile.

No. I'm a teenager.
Teenager > child.

Still under 18. Which does not make you an adult or even come close to the mind of an adult.

[haru

Quote:

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

Quote:

Proof?

Why would anyone need proof for this? It's pretty much obvious. Go outside and meet different people.

[gossamer!smile.

Quote:

No one ever said that all fourteen year olds are not mentally mature because some are and I know quite a few who are.

Whoever made it so that 14 year olds can't choose to do what they want to with their own bodies obviously thought we were too stupid to know what to do, and decided they'd "protect" us. rolleyes

Quote:

It's just that, most aren't.

Proof?

And what makes someone ready for sex?
I say as long as they know how to use protection,
know about abortion and pregnancy, then they are ready.

Quote:

And not all adults are mature either. Generally, most will be.

Proof?

From the way you're acting, seems pretty much obvious that the older you are, the more wiser/intelligent/mature most will be.

I know about abortion, protection, and pregnancy. Knowing about it does not mean that I'm completely ready for sex.

I'm not ready for that emotional bond yet.

Just because you are does not mean that everyone who is thirteen is ready.  

[Joselle`Stark]

Don't quote me on this, but wasn't there a study several years ago that suggested teenagers' brains were not fully finished developing yet? Like some of the hormonal changes teenagers go through have an effect on thought processes...

I'm honestly not sure what search terms to use to hunt it down (and I'm a little too sleepy to do so at the moment), but has anyone else heard anything similar?  

[GreenSouthpaw]

I'm not going to say anything, since more eloquent posters of a similar standpoint to mine have already said their piece, but I just thought this link might be of some help.

 

[PhaedraMcSpiffy]

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

Eighteen isn't a magic number that automatically makes you able to make intelligent decisions. It's maturity level, not age, that matters. And you can't measure that objectively.

I think that if they're a few years apart, it's not a big deal. But when one is signifigantly more developed than the other and one of them is being victimized or taken advantage of, that's wrong.

How can you be "pro choice" and say that teenagers are too stupid or too underdeveloped to make their own decisions? We're closer to adulthood than childhood. And we will, very soon, be adults. Treating us like incompetent children does not prepare us for adulthood.  

[CAPTAIN Plixy[Stix]]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

Eighteen isn't a magic number that automatically makes you able to make intelligent decisions. It's maturity level, not age, that matters. And you can't measure that objectively.

I think that if they're a few years apart, it's not a big deal. But when one is signifigantly more developed than the other and one of them is being victimized or taken advantage of, that's wrong.

How can you be "pro choice" and say that teenagers are too stupid or too underdeveloped to make their own decisions? We're closer to adulthood than childhood. And we will, very soon, be adults. Treating us like incompetent children does not prepare us for adulthood.

I never said that once you're eighteen, you're magically mature and are able to make hard decisions. I also never said anything about teenagers being stupid and not able to make their own choices.

You're jumping to conclusions.

I said that when comparing an eighteen year old to a fourteen year old, eighteen years old are generally more mature compared to a fourteen year old.

In the rest of my post (or another one, forgot which one) I also said that not every teenager is immature and not every adult is mature.

Eighteen is just used a rule of thumb.  

[GreenSouthpaw]

PhaedraMcSpiffy

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Prove that 18 is a good enough age.
Tell me why it isn't seventeen. Or sixteen.

Because people who are eighteen years old are generally more mature or mentally mature than a fourteen year old.

Eighteen isn't a magic number that automatically makes you able to make intelligent decisions. It's maturity level, not age, that matters. And you can't measure that objectively.

I think that if they're a few years apart, it's not a big deal. But when one is signifigantly more developed than the other and one of them is being victimized or taken advantage of, that's wrong.

How can you be "pro choice" and say that teenagers are too stupid or too underdeveloped to make their own decisions? We're closer to adulthood than childhood. And we will, very soon, be adults. Treating us like incompetent children does not prepare us for adulthood.

Gee, now why the hell does that sound familiar...?

 

[SterileNeedles]

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Quote:

No one ever said that all fourteen year olds are not mentally mature because some are and I know quite a few who are.

Whoever made it so that 14 year olds can't choose to do what they want to with their own bodies obviously thought we were too stupid to know what to do, and decided they'd "protect" us. rolleyes

Quote:

It's just that, most aren't.

Proof?

And what makes someone ready for sex?
I say as long as they know how to use protection,
know about abortion and pregnancy, then they are ready.

Quote:

And not all adults are mature either. Generally, most will be.

Proof?

From the way you're acting, seems pretty much obvious that the older you are, the more wiser/intelligent/mature most will be.

I know about abortion, protection, and pregnancy. Knowing about it does not mean that I'm completely ready for sex.

I'm not ready for that emotional bond yet.

Just because you are does not mean that everyone who is thirteen is ready.

Sorry to butt in but I was thinking ( I tend to do that a lot) and I thought that maybe while the government changed the legal age to allow sex at 13 and while many people do not think that every teenager is ready to have sex at that age, changing the legal age down to 13 does not force 13 year olds to go out and have sex. It just means that 13 years olds who want to have sex at that age with whomever can legally do so. And those that don't feel they are ready don't have to have sex. (Also if the gov changed it to that outrageously young age it might just force them to start really teaching kids/teens about sex education.)

It's like the law is now at 18. Just because you turn 18 doesn't automatically mean you should go out and ******** someone to lose your virginity, if you still do not feel ready for sex at 18 you do not have to have sex.

And anyways I really don't think the laws have stopped young teens from having sex anyways so it doesn't seem too matter much. Also If it's illegal for the government to violate one's right to privacy then wouldn't it be illegal to violate a minor's right to privacy? While they are a minor they are also still a person as well with the same rights as other people. (Or maybe not, maybe you are really only endowed rights once you are 1 cool . xP

Well that was my 10 cents. Also as a note I really don't have a stand point on this particular topic yet. I'm still getting all of the facts about it by observing the debates about it here.  

[Aiko_Kaida]

SterileNeedles

[I am teh Haruka]

[gossamer!smile.

Quote:

No one ever said that all fourteen year olds are not mentally mature because some are and I know quite a few who are.

Whoever made it so that 14 year olds can't choose to do what they want to with their own bodies obviously thought we were too stupid to know what to do, and decided they'd "protect" us. rolleyes

Quote:

It's just that, most aren't.

Proof?

And what makes someone ready for sex?
I say as long as they know how to use protection,
know about abortion and pregnancy, then they are ready.

Quote:

And not all adults are mature either. Generally, most will be.

Proof?

From the way you're acting, seems pretty much obvious that the older you are, the more wiser/intelligent/mature most will be.

I know about abortion, protection, and pregnancy. Knowing about it does not mean that I'm completely ready for sex.

I'm not ready for that emotional bond yet.

Just because you are does not mean that everyone who is thirteen is ready.

Sorry to butt in but I was thinking ( I tend to do that a lot) and I thought that maybe while the government changed the legal age to allow sex at 13 and while many people do not think that every teenager is ready to have sex at that age, changing the legal age down to 13 does not force 13 year olds to go out and have sex. It just means that 13 years olds who want to have sex at that age with whomever can legally do so. And those that don't feel they are ready don't have to have sex. (Also if the gov changed it to that outrageously young age it might just force them to start really teaching kids/teens about sex education.)

It's like the law is now at 18. Just because you turn 18 doesn't automatically mean you should go out and ******** someone to lose your virginity, if you still do not feel ready for sex at 18 you do not have to have sex.

And anyways I really don't think the laws have stopped young teens from having sex anyways so it doesn't seem too matter much. Also If it's illegal for the government to violate one's right to privacy then wouldn't it be illegal to violate a minor's right to privacy? While they are a minor they are also still a person as well with the same rights as other people. (Or maybe not, maybe you are really only endowed rights once you are 1 cool . xP

Well that was my 10 cents. Also as a note I really don't have a stand point on this particular topic yet. I'm still getting all of the facts about it by observing the debates about it here.

No, lowering the age of consent to 13 means that an adult who manipulates and coerces a 13 year old child into having sex that she isn't ready for and doesn't really want is not going to be punished for their crime.
Age of consent laws are intended to protect children from being manipulated into having sex by adults who have more life experience and more critical thinking skills.
You are right that these laws do not stop young teens from having sex. No one thinks that they do. What these laws do is allow us to punish adults who take advantage of their power and harm children.

Who told you that it was illegal for the government to violate your "right to privacy". You have no right to privacy as far as the government is concerned. Privacy is more of a privileged. People who are not suspected of being criminals are generally allowed to have a reasonable amount of privacy. People who are suspected of being criminals pretty much loose privacy all together.
Privacy is a privilege, especially when you are under age.  

[ChemicalSoiree]

Just because someone is a teen does not mean they're stupid. It does not mean they're not capable of making a decision that is right for them. In my opinion, if you're ready for sex then you should get to choose who you share that experience with (of any age), and if you feel abortion is right, go for it, just don't abuse it.  

[SterileNeedles]

Aiko_Kaida

No, lowering the age of consent to 13 means that an adult who manipulates and coerces a 13 year old child into having sex that she isn't ready for and doesn't really want is not going to be punished for their crime.
Age of consent laws are intended to protect children from being manipulated into having sex by adults who have more life experience and more critical thinking skills.
You are right that these laws do not stop young teens from having sex. No one thinks that they do. What these laws do is allow us to punish adults who take advantage of their power and harm children.

The sad thing about those laws though is that it also meant that when I was having sex with my bf, who was 18 at the time and I was 17 if my parents had found out about it they could have charged him with statutory rape. (Not that they're insane enought to do that) and the crazy thing is that we were both still in high school too. It's not like I was having sex with someone 30 years apart from my age, just my boyfriend from high school. That's the only thing that really bugs me about that law is that if you are 17 or 16 dating an 18 year old or 19 year old, that really isn't very far from your age. It's like 1 or 2 years, and once we are both 18 and 19 suddenly no one cares anymore that we're screwing each other? :/ wtf?

Aiko_Kaida

Who told you that it was illegal for the government to violate your "right to privacy". You have no right to privacy as far as the government is concerned. Privacy is more of a privileged. People who are not suspected of being criminals are generally allowed to have a reasonable amount of privacy. People who are suspected of being criminals pretty much loose privacy all together.
Privacy is a privilege, especially when you are under age.

Apparently it was Lord Setar who told me that we have a right to privacy (it was said in the 'Think Abstinence only is bad? This is worse." thread as implied in the 4th ammendment and 9th ammendment. My bf told me that it is also found somewhere in the 14th ammendment. Actually you're the first person in this guild who has told me that we do not have a right to privacy but a priveledge to it.

Lord Setar

SterileNeedles

What part of the consitution would this law clash with if it existed if you don't mind my asking?

Right to privacy that is implied in the rights against unreasonable search and seizure onder the Fourth Amendment. Ninth Amendment would also count.