The "I'm right until you prove me wrong" rule

[jamesthelittle]

zz1000zz

jamesthelittle

zz1000zz

Dark_Orophin

Why is it that the view of most athiests on Gaia is that they're automatically right If you can't prove God exists?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying ALL Gaian athiests are like that, just alot of them.

I think their view is that because it is true. Aside from blind faith, there is no reason to believe anything without proof.

I would like for anyone, especially an aethiest to prove scientifically, and mathematically that anyone has thoughts and emotions! Oh, by the way, you can't! Oh by the way prove math exists using only the laws of science. Or prove science by the laws of math. You can't fully prove any of it. It is impossible!
So proof isn't always available the way most people say they have to have it!
Prove to me that this (1) is the number one. Prove it using the laws of science or mathematically. Because I can prove to you with the same laws that it isn't.
Just because you can't prove something just by science doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact what you don't hear from most non-Christian scientists are the things that they can't prove with science, but only by faith. For instance, after bisecting an atom you find protons, electrons and neutrons. After dividing stuff up after a while, all the scientists have found is NOTHING. Yeah, vast, empty, endless space. That goes against every law of science.
Science is a theory. It is a theory of tests and measurements. Science is all about theories and then using tests and measures to prove or disprove.
Just because their isn't scientific proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Scientists today cannot prove that George Washington existed by just using science. It is immpossible. Is George Washington a lie? No one questions his existance. So don't question the existance of my God.
Prove to me that he doesn't! Please give all sources! Thanks!

This is simply a poor translation of solipsism. The response is simple. There is no absolute truth, nor any means of proving anything *exists* in the most literal sense. Accepting this, science chooses to assume an objective universe exists, and this objective universe is the one perceived by everyone in the world. This assumption can be rejected, or it can be accepted. Science exists to allow communication of ideas amongst individuals, but it does not demand anyone accept it. If you reject it, science does not care as it is only a system of thought and reasoning.

The only reasons it is viewed as more reliable than religion is that more people accept these common perceptions than accept any particular religion, and that it is free of logical flaws.

Quote:

For instance, after bisecting an atom you find protons, electrons and neutrons. After dividing stuff up after a while, all the scientists have found is NOTHING. Yeah, vast, empty, endless space. That goes against every law of science.

I would appreciate it if you would cease misrepresenting those with whom you disagree. There is no law of science which would be contradicted by the existence of nothingness, though so far nothingness has not been found.

I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight. The new thing in science is "negative science." This is the science that deals with the unknowns in science. They started this because their are unknown that seem to contradict laws of science. So to explain they have started studying "negative scinece," the unseen part of science that effects the seen.  

[zz1000zz]

jamesthelittle

I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight. The new thing in science is "negative science." This is the science that deals with the unknowns in science. They started this because their are unknown that seem to contradict laws of science. So to explain they have started studying "negative scinece," the unseen part of science that effects the seen.

...?

I honestly have no idea what you were trying to say, or what in the world you are talking about. However, it seems fairly certain nothing in your post actually responds to what i said.  

[promised_child]

I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight. The new thing in science is "negative science." This is the science that deals with the unknowns in science. They started this because their are unknown that seem to contradict laws of science. So to explain they have started studying "negative scinece," the unseen part of science that effects the seen.

Quote:

yeah i learned that in 6th grade, if you take apart all of the atoms of an object you have a negative object. essentially nothingness. negative space, you cant breath. negative light- blindness.

you cant prove God because athiests veiw thing NATRALLY only, if i can see hear touch...

God is Spirit

man is a spirit who lives in a body and has a soul

 

[pnai_pride777]

heh saying i cant see God so there fore he doesnt exist is just like saying "a water melon is blue before you cut" when you cut it its pink "see it turned pink! therefore im right!"

the bible is our proof for God's existance and so will be the rapture.

i'd ask an athiest with that attitude "if you said you want proof there is a God throught something that isnt faith and is current, then i want to see stars form, a monkey have a hairless smart baby, heck i wanna see Darwin! none of us have seen Darwin how can you prove he's real with those "reliable texts"

lol Dr. Dino rocks 3nodding  

[Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori]

pnai_pride777

then i want to see stars form,

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM7SVRMD6E_index_0.html

http://www.reasons.org/resources/faf/94q2faf/94q2star.shtml

Quote:

a monkey have a hairless smart baby

Evolution doesn't work like that, thanks for the strawman.

www.talkorigins.org

Quote:

heck i wanna see Darwin! none of us have seen Darwin how can you prove he's real with those "reliable texts"

Pictures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Charles_Darwin_aged_51.jpg

His descendants, his books and papers. Eyewitness testimonies, maybe? The evidence for Darwin is A LOT stronger than for God.  

[Tarrou]

pnai_pride777

lol Dr. Dino rocks 3nodding

No, no he does not. Even other creationists think he's a twit.  

[loIitoads]

pnai_pride777

heh saying i cant see God so there fore he doesnt exist is just like saying "a water melon is blue before you cut" when you cut it its pink "see it turned pink! therefore im right!"

the bible is our proof for God's existance and so will be the rapture.

i'd ask an athiest with that attitude "if you said you want proof there is a God throught something that isnt faith and is current, then i want to see stars form, a monkey have a hairless smart baby, heck i wanna see Darwin! none of us have seen Darwin how can you prove he's real with those "reliable texts"

lol Dr. Dino rocks 3nodding

Let me first counter the start of the thread: 'Why is it that Christians always assume that they are right when they show me a book that says God exists? Have them prove to me historically and religiously that emotions exist!'

Now, in response to pnai_pride777: You seek to use warped logic. The watermelon example you have given makes no sense. It would be a better allegory for a stubborn Christian. To believe in something without proof is to believe that a watermelon is blue before you split it. To doubt and yet beleive that a watermelon is blue before you split it is to have been given proof that it is blue, yet oxidises when exposed to air. Not that it does, you see. I simply give the example that someone who doubts would seek proof, rather than stubbornly believe against all odds.

Physicists have seen stars form. Millions of lightyears away there are 'star nurseries' where many are created. For a while, the light projected by these masses seemed to contradict established rules of science. Many Chrisitans took this as proof of God, but then the scientists proved that there was some other form of energy release, and that 'God' had not contradicted E=mc2.

I don't really understand your demand to see a monkey have a hairless baby. It doesn't fit in with natural selection or evolution at all, and only an idiot would claim it could happen. Evolution takes time.

By Darwin I assume you mean Darwinism? One thing: Darwin's theory of natural selection did not once mention that human's evolved from monkeys. Another scientist at the time published a paper with that theory, which he had derived from Darwin's. However, this doesn't really have a bearing. Proof of natural selection is everywhere: why do dark moths survive on city trees rather than white ones, etc? On top of this, Darwinism and natural selection are only theories. That's right, atheism accepts that they do not know for sure yet.  

[Optical Illision]

I honestly wish aethiests<-------sp would stop saying show me G-d. Can you not see Him? Look at the person sitting next to you, do you not see Him? As to the person who said they wished Christians would stop saying show me a monkey that has a hairless baby. Yes. I would very much like to see this. We argue this in my science class alot. And evolution is very wrong. If it is right, then why don't we see a half dog half goat thing? Evolution says we evolved from monkeys. Then why do we not see other animals evolve? G-d is great and merciful. G-d is not holy. G-d is not holy holy. G-d is holy holy holy. We as humans cannot describe Him. All we can do is use insufficiant<-----sp words. Please stop questioning Him. Take a good look at the people around you tomorrow. Look for Him.  

[lordstar]

lim x
--> Infinity

the answer is really really close to Infinity
so close that the answer might as well be Infinity
but it isn't

now substitue 100% for Infinity  

[rillegas08]

Princess Afrocat

pnai_pride777

heh saying i cant see God so there fore he doesnt exist is just like saying "a water melon is blue before you cut" when you cut it its pink "see it turned pink! therefore im right!"

the bible is our proof for God's existance and so will be the rapture.

i'd ask an athiest with that attitude "if you said you want proof there is a God throught something that isnt faith and is current, then i want to see stars form, a monkey have a hairless smart baby, heck i wanna see Darwin! none of us have seen Darwin how can you prove he's real with those "reliable texts"

lol Dr. Dino rocks 3nodding

Let me first counter the start of the thread: 'Why is it that Christians always assume that they are right when they show me a book that says God exists? Have them prove to me historically and religiously that emotions exist!'

Now, in response to pnai_pride777: You seek to use warped logic. The watermelon example you have given makes no sense. It would be a better allegory for a stubborn Christian. To believe in something without proof is to believe that a watermelon is blue before you split it. To doubt and yet beleive that a watermelon is blue before you split it is to have been given proof that it is blue, yet oxidises when exposed to air. Not that it does, you see. I simply give the example that someone who doubts would seek proof, rather than stubbornly believe against all odds.

Physicists have seen stars form. Millions of lightyears away there are 'star nurseries' where many are created. For a while, the light projected by these masses seemed to contradict established rules of science. Many Chrisitans took this as proof of God, but then the scientists proved that there was some other form of energy release, and that 'God' had not contradicted E=mc2.

I don't really understand your demand to see a monkey have a hairless baby. It doesn't fit in with natural selection or evolution at all, and only an idiot would claim it could happen. Evolution takes time.

By Darwin I assume you mean Darwinism? One thing: Darwin's theory of natural selection did not once mention that human's evolved from monkeys. Another scientist at the time published a paper with that theory, which he had derived from Darwin's. However, this doesn't really have a bearing. Proof of natural selection is everywhere: why do dark moths survive on city trees rather than white ones, etc? On top of this, Darwinism and natural selection are only theories. That's right, atheism accepts that they do not know for sure yet.

The watermelon argument is kind of weak, but have you heard the banana argument?
1. The banana fits perfectly into the human hand.
2. It has a non-slip surface.
3. It has outward indicators of inward contents (green-too early, yellow-time to eat, black-too late).
4. It has a built-in "wrapper remover" (you know, the thing at the top...i don't know what it's called).
5. Its "wrapper" is perforated for easy "wrapper removal."
6. Its "wrapper" is bio-degradable.
7. It fits perfectly into the mouth.
8. It's tapered at the top for ease of entry.
9. It's pleasing to the taste buds.
10. It's curved towards the face to make eating it easy.

The eye has 40,000,000 nerve endings. The focusing muscles move approximately 100,000 times per day, and the retina contains 137,000,000 light-sensitive cells. Charles Darwin said, "To suppose that the eye could have been formed by naturl selection, seems I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." George Gallup, the famous statistician, said, "I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity."

To say something doesn't exist and be right, you need to have absolute knowledge about everything. No human even knows 1% of what happens in the universe, so how can anyone be sure about anything? However, to say something exists and be right, you only need a few examples that prove that there is something more than just the natural and physical laws.  

[genbounty]

to the Athiests, think about it. If you are right then I am wrong, and when we die, both of us are gone.... but if you are wrong and I am right, you are worse then dead while I am more alive than ever before. (note: I am not entirely sure where i heard this from, but i altered it 'a little bit')  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

genbounty

to the Athiests, thinks about it. If you are right then I am wrong, and when we die, both of us are gone.... but if you are wrong and I am right, you are worse then dead while I am more alive than ever before. (note: I am not entirely sure where i heard this from, but i altered it 'a little bit')

See that's the thing. We all think we're right regardless of religious status. Mainly because to us our opinion matters more to us than others. That and many of us disguise our opinions as facts and tote them around as such.  

[SloanSage]

I think it takes MORE faith to believe that we came from monkeys and apes, or primal ooze, or nothingness.

Also...

You believe that after death there is nothing, I beleive that after death there is victory. If you are right, then we both lose. But if I am right however, you still lose and I gain everything. ~ Blaise Pascal

Pascal said this to an atheist friend. The next question I would ask would be, do you want to take the chance that I am right?  

[SloanSage]

rillegas08

Princess Afrocat

pnai_pride777

heh saying i cant see God so there fore he doesnt exist is just like saying "a water melon is blue before you cut" when you cut it its pink "see it turned pink! therefore im right!"

the bible is our proof for God's existance and so will be the rapture.

i'd ask an athiest with that attitude "if you said you want proof there is a God throught something that isnt faith and is current, then i want to see stars form, a monkey have a hairless smart baby, heck i wanna see Darwin! none of us have seen Darwin how can you prove he's real with those "reliable texts"

lol Dr. Dino rocks 3nodding

Let me first counter the start of the thread: 'Why is it that Christians always assume that they are right when they show me a book that says God exists? Have them prove to me historically and religiously that emotions exist!'

Now, in response to pnai_pride777: You seek to use warped logic. The watermelon example you have given makes no sense. It would be a better allegory for a stubborn Christian. To believe in something without proof is to believe that a watermelon is blue before you split it. To doubt and yet beleive that a watermelon is blue before you split it is to have been given proof that it is blue, yet oxidises when exposed to air. Not that it does, you see. I simply give the example that someone who doubts would seek proof, rather than stubbornly believe against all odds.

Physicists have seen stars form. Millions of lightyears away there are 'star nurseries' where many are created. For a while, the light projected by these masses seemed to contradict established rules of science. Many Chrisitans took this as proof of God, but then the scientists proved that there was some other form of energy release, and that 'God' had not contradicted E=mc2.

I don't really understand your demand to see a monkey have a hairless baby. It doesn't fit in with natural selection or evolution at all, and only an idiot would claim it could happen. Evolution takes time.

By Darwin I assume you mean Darwinism? One thing: Darwin's theory of natural selection did not once mention that human's evolved from monkeys. Another scientist at the time published a paper with that theory, which he had derived from Darwin's. However, this doesn't really have a bearing. Proof of natural selection is everywhere: why do dark moths survive on city trees rather than white ones, etc? On top of this, Darwinism and natural selection are only theories. That's right, atheism accepts that they do not know for sure yet.

The watermelon argument is kind of weak, but have you heard the banana argument?
1. The banana fits perfectly into the human hand.
2. It has a non-slip surface.
3. It has outward indicators of inward contents (green-too early, yellow-time to eat, black-too late).
4. It has a built-in "wrapper remover" (you know, the thing at the top...i don't know what it's called).
5. Its "wrapper" is perforated for easy "wrapper removal."
6. Its "wrapper" is bio-degradable.
7. It fits perfectly into the mouth.
8. It's tapered at the top for ease of entry.
9. It's pleasing to the taste buds.
10. It's curved towards the face to make eating it easy.

The eye has 40,000,000 nerve endings. The focusing muscles move approximately 100,000 times per day, and the retina contains 137,000,000 light-sensitive cells. Charles Darwin said, "To suppose that the eye could have been formed by naturl selection, seems I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." George Gallup, the famous statistician, said, "I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity."

To say something doesn't exist and be right, you need to have absolute knowledge about everything. No human even knows 1% of what happens in the universe, so how can anyone be sure about anything? However, to say something exists and be right, you only need a few examples that prove that there is something more than just the natural and physical laws.

Consider the Fact...

Evolution has been disproved in that it is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE in that it would take more time than this earth has been about (according to the dating of scientists).

Also...

Darwin's theory was about variations on the species.

You can make a white man black by sticking him in the Sahara and within a few generations you would have blacks who descended from whites. It can happen, but it takes a lot longer, but you can also make a black man white. Simple things like weather, food, and climate can change what happens to people. Some people have more melanin in their skin and that makes them different. The melanin in your skin makes you darker or lighter according to your circumstances as well as your heritage.

Also...

Take a pocket watch. Take that pocket watch apart. Put the parts in a bag. Shake the bag for a few million years. Now take out the pocket watch. Is it whole? Those are the statistics of evolution working.

Also...

Jesus completed 400 prophecies in His first coming. The chance of a person doing that is this.

Take the state of Texas. Fill it up to three feet deep of silver dollars. Take on of those silver dollars and put an X on it. Put it in the mix. Shake it all up. Now, without looking, reach down and pick up the silver dollar marked with an X.

Those were the statistics, and Jesus made them. He was that rare chance and He came.

So...

You want to take that chance that I am right and you are wrong?

I wouldn't.  

[Orkronos]

What can not be proven wrong must be true. Smack them with that. Its great fun! biggrin