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As annoying as some religious and non-religious zealots can be, just remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and hurtful insults are just water off a duck's back.

Yeah thats the guy im talking about. I came to try and ignore these type of people and some angsty teenagers who rant and complain about how stupid religion/other things are...theyre not doing anything to contribute to this world and thus I think that is where the ignorance comes from...at least we "buddhists" try to practice loving-kindess and non-harm to others..well not just only Buddhists but other people as well.

But oh well...me sitting here and complaining about them, I am just being as bad as they are and thus like them not contributing anything.

Lol yes...eventually maybe in future lifetimes or even in this lifetime he may become a Buddha or reach the level of Bodhisattva. May this guy and all beings be happy.

Don't condemn him...he does have a right to his beliefs.

However, I'd advise you to just ignore him, and hope for the best.

-Yevgenia

As a non-religious atheist and (hopefully) soon to be member of this forum I believe I should put my two cents in on this discussion. I'll start by outlining the issues that lead to this and then make some suggestions:

1. Western atheists, in particular Americans, will only have been exposed for the most part to the three big mono-theistic religions; we're human and thus likely to make mistakes just like religious folks and generalize about other religions since we're not all anthropologists.

2. The three mono-theistic religions (even if not all the believers do this) essentially paint us as having horns, this leads to a sort of suspicion about religion in general and yes, a persecution complex of sorts.

3. This suspicion may lead to hostility toward other religions that we are ignorant of; we expect them to treat us as if we're evil and the worst thing ever for being "THE UNBELIEVERS" just like those of the faiths that are most common. This is natural, considering the circumstances.

4. The layman's 'knowledge' of Buddhism is generally limited to two, possibly three assumptions: The first of these being that it involves mediation; the second being that it involves worship of Buddha (the original, forgive me, the name slips my mind); and possibly a third assumption of Buddha being that fat guy we see on an altar whenever we enter a Chinese buffet. ninja Thus, it will seem ridiculous that not only do Buddhists worship a god like everyone else with no evidence for his existence but..that deity is a fat guy!

My suggestions:

1. Inform us that Buddhism is not like other religions, it is not intolerant of us for disagreeing with your beliefs and you are not under the idea that we have horns underneath the hat we wear.

2. Realize that we are going to be naturally suspicious about this first assertion. We are not used to being treated as people by the majority of religious folks unless they are plotting on converting us. Essentially, expect us to keep an eye on you to see if you're trying to get a glance behind us to see if we have a hole cut in our jeans for our tail. Make sure to inform us that you would like to educate but have no interest in actively trying to convert us as you do not believe we are going to some hellish underwold if you don't. We may be a bit suspicious, but it's good to start with some open ground. Generally, we do not like to be as close-minded as religious fanatics so we will be willing to learn.

3. Introduce us to some very basic concepts of Buddhism that an atheist would connect with. Start off with the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path for example, rather than going into 'mystical' territory. Also, you may try explaining some of the principles of Theravada Buddhism for example; a religion where the person who started it is simply respected and viewed as a very, very insightful and wise man rather than turning him into a deity will appeal to us. Note that I am not claiming to hide your true beliefs from us, or anything of that nature. Just don't immediately hit us with something like reincarnation and the karma system based on reincarnation or Buddha as a deity and the Bodhisattvas. Most of us will be able to accept this, however, if we do not have it in our head yet that this belief system really IS accepting and tht there's no conspiracy to convert us this may make us run. Also, emphasize the elements of Buddhism that have to do with psychological factors and human nature rather than the nature of the divine, this will also be appealing.

4. Recommend some literature; try Sam Harris' The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason for a good start. He certainly would be dubbed as a 'hardcore atheist,' however, he spends much time throughout the book contrasting Buddhism with other religions to show that while yes, it does need to be put under critical review like the rest in regards to untestable, unprovable beliefs like reincarnation, it does something largely different by making multiple claims that are of an emperical nature, can be tested, and actually encourages testing them rather than relying on blind faith. This should set the bell off in a person's head as to Buddhism being different. If the person is willing to try that then why not go a bit further? Reccommend an intro to Buddhism text, or, lend the person a translation of The Dhammpapada for example, or find them an e-book of a translation. I've just bought a copy of that (Ananda Maitreya's translation rev. by Rose Kramer) and started reading it and I can speak from experience and say that it's something an atheist would enjoy; it's logical, non-dogmatic, clear and simple yet profound. Definitely a good introduction work.

5. If you've got the person to this point then he or she is clearly willing to learn by now. Start teaching the person about the nuances of your belief system -- your particular form of Buddhism -- and the others too if you have knowledge of them. Of course, you can expect some criticism or debate from the person, however, it will be in a respectful manner.

Please note that I don't feel taht all atheists will be this difficult to work with; however, if it's the sort that rails against Buddhism without a good comprehension of the belief then you can very well expect that the person is the sort that's (understandably) developed a persecution complex and thus will be difficult to work with.

I apologize if I've made any grevious spelling errors in this post or said anything downright offensive. In either case I'd like to point out that it was late when I typed this and I'm tired. Thanks for understanding. gonk